Boat shopping: Advice needed

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

Fergy... So what boat did you decide?

 

I suggest you take out the Asian carp rider on your boat insurance.

 

And... Don't be tricked into thinking you gotta buy boat insurance if you own the boat outright.  The only states that have mandatory boat insurance is Arkansas and Utah.  Watch out for those shady insurance guys over-selling you.  Yet, you can't go wrong on the carp add-on, they hurt and are awfully bloody!

[BringBackFergy]

Thanks for the comments. Decided against a boat. I think I’ll invest in a good fishing pole and just do some surf casting. 

 

This one should do the job. 

 

[BuffaloBill]

You’re a cheap !@#$.... you mislead all of us with this “I’m gonna buy a boat” ****.

 

Not that I had much before but I’ve lost all respect for you and your ideas..... 

[BringBackFergy]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBill said:

You’re a cheap !@#$.... you mislead all of us with this “I’m gonna buy a boat” ****.

 

Not that I had much before but I’ve lost all respect for you and your ideas..... 

I need to save my money so I can invest in land near Lancaster, or Clarence, or Newstead...or Batavia. 

 

Besides, having a nice new fishing pole (like the one pictured above) will help me relax more and enjoy the outdoor scenery. 

[BuffaloBill]

5 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

I need to save my money so I can invest in land near Lancaster, or Clarence, or Newstead...or Batavia. 

 

Besides, having a nice new fishing pole (like the one pictured above) will help me relax more and enjoy the outdoor scenery. 

 

 

I see ... you are a land speculator...

 

However, you can’t handle a device of that length...... the story around here is that you can’t handle anything over 4 inches long.

[Cripple Creek]

9 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Like Augie said... 

 

Serious? Long response. Because there are so many different answers, so many different possible vessel configurations.

 

Simple answer: 950'x108'.  Stop here if you don't need details.

 

We only have a 1,000'(l) x 110'(w) x 22'(d) lock chamber.  Which is (old) Panamax length/width BUT NOT PANAMAX DRAFT.  We are only 22' deep and canal project depth is maintained to 9' deep throughout the inland waterways.  We are a shallow draft lock. Air draft, controlling vertical clearance (fixed lowest bridge) to Illinois Waterway is about 19.1' above pool stage @ Lemont, Illinois.

 

Interesting question you pose. Flotillas act as one vessel.  We are part of inland waterways, overall size is combined vessels (barges) tied together and powered by one (or other/multiple assist) vessel(s).  Largest individual vessel has to be a around 500' by 60' that we ever passed.

 

Now... With that things change radically.

 

1,300' by 54' wide has to be largest combined vessels pushed by one boat.  Again, we only have a 1,000' x 110' lock chamber.  So, you are probably wondering how that is done.  That 1,300' tow showing up with 4 300' tanker barges gets rearranged and becomes ~700'x 108' wide.  That 1,300 foot tow is the longest tow that I ever seen showing up at lock and we rearranged (set over).  The longest "straight" lockage with out rearranging is about 800'-900' long by 70' wide... Those are pushing normal/jumbo barges, 195'/200' x 35' (8-pack).  That's a daily occurance, 6-packs.  Again, these dimensions are because they are pushing barges tied together.  The towboat pushing has a retractable pilot house to fit under that 19.1' bridge in Lemont & to slip under other bridges similar in height. That 1,300' includes the length of the towboat pushing the barges. Bigger flotillas need a bigger pusher boat.  Those boats, usually southern boats from The Gulf or Intercoastal have 3,000-5,000 horsepower.  In the case of the 1,300' tow, when it shows up too long at the lock they "set over" two of the barges/pusher boat and lock through 108' wide.  That is the limit beam-width that the 110' wide lock will take, we can accept.

 

This doesn't happen often.  The bend in the river below the lock and the pleasure boat marinas make pushing long, wide tows difficult.  The federal navigation channel of the canal is 400' wide.  Our average daily tows are from 650' long by 70' wide or 700'-800' long by 54' wide.  They "fleet" or leave the other barges elsewhere and go back and make two, three, etc... trips.

 

We are the only 1,000' chamber on Illinois Waterway... So we don't need tow haulage (big winches) to pull "cuts" out.  The other 7 locks are 600' long by 110' wide.  When tows show up longer, they lock half of the flotilla through and the cut it pulled out with the tow haulage cable.  They then "turn" the lock back and lock the rest of the barges and pusher boat (towboat).

 

So in conclusion,  largest vessels:

 

Combined as one=

Longest set over lockage: ~1,300'

Longest straight lockage:  ~900'

Longest average/daily: ~600-800'

Widest: 108'

Widest average/daily: 35'/54'/70'

 

Individual vessel, self propelled/powered by one: 

~500'x60'

 

Again, terminus of Seaway is 1/2 mile away towards Lake Michigan @ Lake Calumet... There is a 30' high bridge controlling height just upstream of lock... Everything gets transferred to and from barges to ships and vice-a-versa. That's the "break-in-bulk" point.  All bridges then to Lake Michigan are high enough to accommodate ships or they are draw/lift/bascule (moveable) bridges.

 

Hopes this helps.

 

 

Smallest vessel is canoe/jetski...

 

 

 

What about someone floating on an innertube?  

 

Please leave the racially insensitive jokes to the professionals.

 

 

9 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

^^^^ Is extremely detail oriented. 

Wrong thread cap'n crunch.

[/dev/null]

Bust

Out

Another

Thousand

[ExiledInIllinois]

12 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

What about someone floating on an innertube?  

No innertube... Simplier to just portage their lazy azz around... Only going up or down 5 feet. 

 

About 20 years ago... 3:00 am... I did have a guy in a canoe "pogie" (they call it ski-tching here in Chicago... When You hang on to bumper of a vehicle in winter) onto the side of a big, empty (high out of water, drafts only 2' deep) tanker barge.  This was one of those big, Lakes tanker... 500'x54', bow thrusters, etc... The tug sits in a notch in barge and pushes it from inside that notch.  Well I get the vessel lockage down and it leaves.  Close the lock gates almost fully closed and out paddles dude in canoe!  I read him the riot act.  If the wind was blowing and pushed tanker to other wall, he would have been flattened like a pancake... Camping gear, sleeping bags, etc... Strewn all over the place... We would have no idea what the mess was about.  Anyway he was supposedly "retracing the Lewis and Clark route" once he got to St.Louis... Heading to Oregon.  Hope he made it.  No navigation lights, PFD, etc... 

 

So... Children if you get a boat, please having working navigation lights after dark and invest 20 bucks in a PFD... Even if you are recreating Lewis & Clark in the dark while pogieing on the side of a tanker barge:

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

There’s a few more for your selection 

[BringBackFergy]

43 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

There’s a few more for your selection 

Flyfishing is a great time. In fact, when using dry flies, it’s best to use some floatant. Then again, early season requires the use of nymphs...they’re tricky but usually result in an exciting catch. Sometime my flyrod bends right over and I have a tough time getting her in...but with a decent flexed rod, it lasts a minute or two and then, after I land her, I go right back in for more. 

[Augie]

15 hours ago, BringBackFergy said:

Thanks for the comments. Decided against a boat. I think I’ll invest in a good fishing pole and just do some surf casting. 

 

This one should do the job. 

 

Oh, Oh, I’m interested again! Hope the water is warm and best wishes for you and your pole.

 

(That’s “polite” enough, right?) 

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

There’s a few more for your selection 

 

 

Why are they even using fishing poles and reels? Tell them don't need those. Just go a little "motorboating" and get it up to a nice rpm and the fish will jump right out of the water... Don't we have a whole thread dedicated to that.  Oh... You probably should leave the kids @ home for this kind of motorboating. 

 

Now that's the way to catch fish!

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois

[Cripple Creek]

10 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

No innertube... Simplier to just portage their lazy azz around... Only going up or down 5 feet. 

 

About 20 years ago... 3:00 am... I did have a guy in a canoe "pogie" (they call it ski-tching here in Chicago... When You hang on to bumper of a vehicle in winter) onto the side of a big, empty (high out of water, drafts only 2' deep) tanker barge.  This was one of those big, Lakes tanker... 500'x54', bow thrusters, etc... The tug sits in a notch in barge and pushes it from inside that notch.  Well I get the vessel lockage down and it leaves.  Close the lock gates almost fully closed and out paddles dude in canoe!  I read him the riot act.  If the wind was blowing and pushed tanker to other wall, he would have been flattened like a pancake... Camping gear, sleeping bags, etc... Strewn all over the place... We would have no idea what the mess was about.  Anyway he was supposedly "retracing the Lewis and Clark route" once he got to St.Louis... Heading to Oregon.  Hope he made it.  No navigation lights, PFD, etc... 

 

So... Children if you get a boat, please having working navigation lights after dark and invest 20 bucks in a PFD... Even if you are recreating Lewis & Clark in the dark while pogieing on the side of a tanker barge:

 

 

That's very interesting, thanks.

 

I am bothered about your portage statement in regards to innertubers though.  You've previously expressed in very official language something about free navigation of inland waterways or some such thing.  Why are they discriminated against?

[ExiledInIllinois]

49 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

That's very interesting, thanks.

 

I am bothered about your portage statement in regards to innertubers though.  You've previously expressed in very official language something about free navigation of inland waterways or some such thing.  Why are they discriminated against?

Write your Congressperson.

 

What are you, a liberal Snowflake?  A clown? Or just acting like a dumbass? Or did you just take your stupid pills this morning. "Bothered" by laws and rules, regulations?

 

It's because @ certain sites one can get killed and resources have to be safely managed. If these resources are not managed, navigation is encumbered, burdened, blocked and businesses lose money, property damaged and lives put at risk.  Just as in the case of a person swimming through.  Swimming, of course, through a navigational lock is prohibited because it is dangerous.  VERY dangerous. Duh!

 

We are a nation of laws and rules.

 

There is free inland navigation (tribs of MS & St. Lawrence). That free navigation is managed by laws, rules.  This ain't some free for all country.  Are you a Millennial?

 

In some places you probably can lock through with an innertube. Some places you may not.

 

There are still specific laws that have to be adhered to and our (where I am at) law that breaks things down further so we can safely manage is:

 

USC 33 C.F.R. 207.300

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/207.300

 

"...The lockmaster shall be charged with the immediate control and management of the lock, and of the area set aside as the lock area, including the lock approach channels. He/she shall see that all laws, rules, and regulations for the use of the lock and lock area are duly complied with, to which end he/she is authorized to give all necessary orders and directions in accordance therewith, both to employees of the government and to any and every person within the limits of the lock and lock area, whether navigating the lock or not. No one shall cause any movement of any vessel, boat, or other floating thing in the lock or approaches except by or under the direction of the lockmaster or his/her assistants. In the event of an emergency, the lockmaster may depart from these regulations as he deems necessary. The lockmasters shall also be charged with the control and management of federally constructed mooring facilities..."

 

 

Site specific, referring back to the above, is:

 

USC 33 C.F.R. 207.425

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/207.425

 

Chicago Harbor Lock downtown has its own site specific law:

 

USC 33 C.F.R. 207.420

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/207.420

 

Within these laws and rules there lies the ability to safely manage the resources of our nation.  Then there are site specific navigation notices.  Like the lock  I help manage at, you can navigate a personal watercraft (PWC) through under its own power.  The other 7 locks on Illinois Waterway, one has to tie off to another boat and board that boat.  Our lock, pleasure craft can float through... Almost all other locks you MUST hold on to lockwall, and "tie" off.  Not really tie off, why I put the word tie in quotes... But you get the concept.

 

State laws also come into play.

 

You can find more site specific SOPs in Navigational Bulletins that break the laws down more specifically.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by ExiledInIllinois

[Cripple Creek]

10 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Write your Congressperson.

 

What are you, a liberal Snowflake?  A clown? Or just acting like a dumbass? Or did you just take your stupid pills this morning. "Bothered" by laws and rules, regulations?

 

It's because @ certain sites one can get killed and resources have to be safely managed. If these resources are not managed, navigation is encumbered, burdened, blocked and businesses lose money, property damaged and lives put at risk.  Just as in the case of a person swimming through.  Swimming, of course, through a navigational lock is prohibited because it is dangerous.  VERY dangerous. Duh!

 

We are a nation of laws and rules.

 

There is free inland navigation (tribs of MS & St. Lawrence). That free navigation is managed by laws, rules.  This ain't some free for all country.  Are you a Millennial?

 

In some places you probably can lock through with an innertube. Some places you may not.

 

There are still specific laws that have to be adhered to and our (where I am at) law that breaks things down further so we can safely manage is:

 

USC 33 C.F.R. 207.300

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/207.300

 

"...The lockmaster shall be charged with the immediate control and management of the lock, and of the area set aside as the lock area, including the lock approach channels. He/she shall see that all laws, rules, and regulations for the use of the lock and lock area are duly complied with, to which end he/she is authorized to give all necessary orders and directions in accordance therewith, both to employees of the government and to any and every person within the limits of the lock and lock area, whether navigating the lock or not. No one shall cause any movement of any vessel, boat, or other floating thing in the lock or approaches except by or under the direction of the lockmaster or his/her assistants. In the event of an emergency, the lockmaster may depart from these regulations as he deems necessary. The lockmasters shall also be charged with the control and management of federally constructed mooring facilities..."

 

 

Site specific, referring back to the above, is:

 

USC 33 C.F.R. 207.425

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/207.425

 

Chicago Harbor Lock downtown has its own site specific law:

 

USC 33 C.F.R. 207.420

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/207.420

 

Within these laws and rules there lies the ability to safely manage the resources of our nation.  Then there are site specific navigation notices.  Like the lock  I help manage at, you can navigate a personal watercraft (PWC) through under its own power.  The other 7 locks on Illinois Waterway, one has to tie off to another boat and board that boat.  Our lock, pleasure craft can float through... Almost all other locks you MUST hold on to lockwall, and "tie" off.  Not really tie off, why I put the word tie in quotes... But you get the concept.

 

State laws also come into play.

 

You can find more site specific SOPs in Navigational Bulletins that break the laws down more specifically.

 

 

Interesting, you admit to discrimination then hide behind rules and regulations.  You've also managed to hijack another thread and turn it into a platform for your prejudicial nonsense.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 minutes ago, Cripple Creek said:

Interesting, you admit to discrimination then hide behind rules and regulations.  You've also managed to hijack another thread and turn it into a platform for your prejudicial nonsense.  

Hey... On topic.  You don't buy a car without learning where you can legally drive it.

 

Sorry Snowflake.  Discrimination exists, it can keep dumbasses alive. 

 

Let it go.  You lost (again).

[BringBackFergy]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Hey... On topic.  You don't buy a car without learning where you can legally drive it.

 

Sorry Snowflake.  Discrimination exists, it can keep dumbasses alive. 

 

Let it go.  You lost (again).

I’m a little frustrated. I started this thread to look at nice boats and fishing reels and you’ve turned it into another Discovery channel series on interstate waterways. Not to mention the fact that red blooded Americans (or even illegals) on innertubes or paddle boats are probibited from travel through “your” locks based on a regulation that basically says “the lock master can decide was is safe or dangerous”. So you are basically the Roger Goodell of the waterways. That’s assuming you are a lock master....or are you an apprentice lock master? We don’t know. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

56 minutes ago, BringBackFergy said:

I started this thread to look at nice boats and fishing reels

Kind of a version of Would ya?

 

Catch or Release or  Catch and keep.

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Hey... On topic.  You don't buy a car without learning where you can legally drive it.

 

Sorry Snowflake.  Discrimination exists, it can keep dumbasses alive. 

 

Let it go.  You lost (again).

 

1 hour ago, BringBackFergy said:

I’m a little frustrated. I started this thread to look at nice boats and fishing reels and you’ve turned it into another Discovery channel series on interstate waterways. Not to mention the fact that red blooded Americans (or even illegals) on innertubes or paddle boats are probibited from travel through “your” locks based on a regulation that basically says “the lock master can decide was is safe or dangerous”. So you are basically the Roger Goodell of the waterways. That’s assuming you are a lock master....or are you an apprentice lock master? We don’t know. 

 

 

Looks like the cage match is on.......

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Catch or Release? 

Catch or Release