Marshall Faulk, 2 others suspended from NFL Network.

[PolishDave]

1 minute ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

Yeah, but the batschit crazy women are also crazy in bed. 

 

Yeah baby.      Hey- while on the subject - are there still any of those places around where women cut your hair and serve you drinks while they dangle their goods in your face wearing scandalous lingerie?      Seemed like a natural fit for any hairdresser - even the fat ones - some guys are into that.

[Big Turk]

26 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

Sorry that I'm against rape. I didn't know that was such an extremist position.

 

You sound like that scumbag from Hemet who thinks it's ok to give a woman a side hug without first asking her permission.

 

How does "asking for permission" work for you? Still a virgin?

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

They're unfounded because they are unprovable, and when you are metering out consequences you can't do so in absence of evidence.  That's a standard the throws out any guise of equality, and insists that women don't have equal rights, but rather enjoy special rights men don't under which their word is to be taken in any conflict between the two sexes.

 

That's not victim shaming, that's the bare minimum to establish that a victim actually exists, which is central to justice.

 

Again, women are not special, delicate flowers who need your protection.  They are individuals who must be required to accept the outcomes of their choices.

 

Ding ding ding...we have a winner...just because their feelings changed a week later doesn't allow them to not accept the consequences of their feelings in the moment.  They dont get to have it both ways.

[TakeYouToTasker]

13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Should we not also encourage an environment that allows for such reporting to occur free of repercussion and stigmatization? 

Of course we should, so long as the standard is conclusive proof of guilt.

[Rob's House]

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

How does "asking for permission" work for you? Still a virgin?

 

I'm FB friends with a lot of girls who don't sleep with me but like my posts when I say these things.

 

And I respect women too much to sleep with them.

[Bob in STL]

2 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

Baby boomer is just another word for Hippie Bob!

True.

 

To clarify.  It can get confusing in the workplace. We hire many smart and pretty young girls out of college.  I see them acting much more independently than decades ago , dressing a bit "unconventional" for the office.  I see things can and do happen. 

 

I have three great millennial children so I have experience dealing with all generations. 

 

Getting out of the rat race and golfing, playing, and partying full time --- I deserve that!

[T-Bomb]

7 minutes ago, teef said:

are you sure that's on her?

 

What I'm getting at is what makes a female nurse so special when compared to a female scientist, or accountant, or waitress?

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Of course we should, so long as the standard is conclusive proof of guilt.

I think it's actually 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

They're unfounded because they are unprovable, and when you are metering out consequences you can't do so in absence of evidence.  That's a standard the throws out any guise of equality, and insists that women don't have equal rights, but rather enjoy special rights men don't under which their word is to be taken in any conflict between the two sexes.

 

That's not victim shaming, that's the bare minimum to establish that a victim actually exists, which is central to justice.

 

Again, women are not special, delicate flowers who need your protection.  They are individuals who must be required to accept the outcomes of their choices.

 

Women don't need my protection, but they deserve to be heard and believed. The fact that people like you never believe victims is what leads them to stay quiet for years before it's convenient for them to speak up. Your take is so antiquated. Sympathizing with men for "having their lives ruined" and blaming women for their "choices" when in a lot of these situations people should be demanding the opposite to happen. 

 

Gross. 

 

 

 

[LA Grant]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't agree with you in general on this topic but I do agree with the above 100%.  I do struggle with why people let things go unchecked or unreported.  No job would be so important to me that I would allow someone to sexually assault me and continue to put myself in that position without taking action.  

 

There are many reasons sexual harassment goes unreported.  

 

1) It's usually presented in a way that "this is okay, this is just how we do things here." Whether it's a joke, or an "innocent" offer of a date or sex or whatever else. The offender isn't thinking of their behavior as harassment, even when it's egregious like Matt Lauer with a secret button under his desk, in his head he's probably not thinking "yes today I will harass one of my employees, preferably sexually." 

 

2) If the victim is a subordinate or in a position of less power or younger -- which is usually the case -- they may doubt their feelings. Women generally struggle with asserting their feelings because we live in a society that has traditionally taught girls to be nice & pleasant & to not make a scene, even when they ought to. This is changing but slowly.

 

As men, we tend to have a hard time understanding this because generally men will make a scene, or will take action. To keep speaking incredibly generally, that's one small aspect of why abusers tend to be men rather than the other way around -- men will just do things they feel are right, whereas women will overthink things until they feel absolutely certain. 

 

3) There usually isn't a clear way to handle reporting these things in the workplace, either. HR is there to protect the company, not you, so if you're bringing an allegation against a powerful person in the organization and you're, say, an assistant or a temp -- odds are, it's you that will be the one quietly shown the door. At-will employment has become increasingly common, meaning employers don't need any justification in particular to let you go.

 

I've seen this happen in companies that I've worked for -- in one case, the offender did also lose his job but so did the accuser, although the offender did continue to work for the company in quiet freelance way, whereas the accuser of course did not.

 

4) Men often simply do not want to believe women. You're seeing it even in this thread. "Where's the proof? Well, what did you do? What were you wearing?" It's easier to believe the woman is wrong, for some reason.

 

5) Lastly, I think most people agree with you in the very broad sense -- in a platonic ideal society, a crime would be reported and dealt with immediately after it'd been committed. I've never had to deal with being sexually harassed, but I have seen bosses who don't listen and don't care, and I have seen wildly incompetent HR at more places than I've seen competent HR. 

 

In Los Angeles, and the entertainment/media industry, obviously there's been a lot of this lately in the news. And there is also a lot that doesn't make the headlines. From what I've heard from friends and women generally in my life or circles, these instances are almost never really a "gray" thing -- I think sometimes men see the headlines and think, "ok so if I tell a coworker she looks nice, am I going to get sued?" No, that's not what's happening. To put it in equally simple scenario, it's essentially a version of the "casting couch" concept that's being taken down. The idea of "If you want to work in this town, honey, you need to go along to get along" (lol) -- that's the basic core at a lot of this. Men in power leveraging that power to get sex. Women not knowing if they have the power to fight back. Now we're seeing that people are listening.

Edited December 12, 2017 by LA Grant

[PolishDave]

1 minute ago, Bob in STL said:

True.

 

To clarify.  It can get confusing in the workplace. We hire many smart and pretty young girls out of college.  I see them acting much more independently than decades ago , dressing a bit "unconventional" for the office.  I see things can and do happen. 

 

I have three great millennial children so I have experience dealing with all generations. 

 

Getting out of the rat race and golfing, playing, and partying full time --- I deserve that!

 

Bob, could you please more accurately describe what these pretty girls out of college that you hire look like.   Spare no detail.   Thank you.  

 

I'm gonna go make a bag of popcorn.  Be right back.

[HappyDays]

8 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Morals are gone, or maybe everything is just exposed? 

 

[PolishDave]

3 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

What I'm getting at is what makes a female nurse so special when compared to a female scientist, or accountant, or waitress?

 

I think it is because they are constantly seeing and touching naked people at work.   Gets them all riled up.  

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Women don't need my protection, but they deserve to be heard and believed. The fact that people like you never believe victims is what leads them to stay quiet for years before it's convenient for them to speak up. Your take is so antiquated. Sympathizing with men for "having their lives ruined" and blaming women for their "choices" when in a lot of these situations people should be demanding the opposite to happen. 

 

Gross. 

 

 

 

 

No they deserve to be heard, questioned ans then have the defendant heard and questioned and judged on the believability of both testimonies...you know how it usually works on a jury trial.

[T-Bomb]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

before it's convenient for them to speak up. 

 

You mean when it's fiscally or politically advantageous to do so...

[HappyDays]

Just now, matter2003 said:

 

No they deserve to be heard, questioned ans then have the defendant heard and questioned and judged on the believability of both testimonies...you know how it usually works on a jury trial.

 

You think every time an employee is suspended there should be a jury trial to determine if it was the right decision?

[T-Bomb]

1 minute ago, PolishDave said:

 

I think it is because they are constantly seeing and touching naked people at work.   Gets them all riled up.  

 

That is not at all how my GF describes work,lol. It's usually about how all the other nurses are bitches.

[DC Tom]

31 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

You've got to start somewhere. 

 

Maybe in 30 years we'll live in a society where victims feel comfortable coming forward immediately. Reality is that we're not there yet. 

 We'll never get there if this is the accepted practice.

[Big Turk]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

You think every time an employee is suspended there should be a jury trial to determine if it was the right decision?

 

No I believe men need to start suing the hell out of companies over this so their fear of lawsuits is equal from both sides meaning their judgement is not clouded by potential of lawsuits.

 

Too often at the end of the day its about their liability rather than the truth.

Edited December 12, 2017 by matter2003

[PolishDave]

3 minutes ago, T-Bomb said:

 

That is not at all how my GF describes work,lol. It's usually about how all the other nurses are bitches.

 

14 years of dating T-bomb.   If you like it then you shoulda put a ring on it.      Or don't.   She's still gonna take half your crap if she gets sick of "dating"

Edited December 12, 2017 by PolishDave

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, DC Tom said:

 We'll never get there if this is the accepted practice.

 

Again, you've got to start somewhere.

 

30 years ago women wouldn't have dared to speak out. Now they are. That's progress.