corta765 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: 26CopyPaste posted a twitter link that shows just how effective the guy had been despite the w/l record. BUT in the end W/L are what matters. They could've taken a QB in the past 2 seasons AND still had the majority of those picks. I don't disagree he probably got canned too early and should've been allowed his choice, but he also missed by not taking a QB when they reallyy really needed one and didn't pull the trigger.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, corta765 said: BUT in the end W/L are what matters. They could've taken a QB in the past 2 seasons AND still had the majority of those picks. I don't disagree he probably got canned too early and should've been allowed his choice, but he also missed by not taking a QB when they reallyy really needed one and didn't pull the trigger. Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options. 1
corta765 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, joesixpack said: Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options. Completely agree. Just saying had he picked Wentz and even if the team went say 2-14 last year and 4-12 or 5-11 this year he would've got a longer leash just because it feels like progress is being made. That unfortunately is what I think sunk him especially with the team really on the verge of 0-16.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 Just now, ScottLaw said: ? If the team wins 3 games next year McBeanes a lock to come back in 2019? They should be. They should get a full 5. But you knew that was my opinion, already SnottLaw.
Peter Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: If you couldn't see the Bills defense was a tire fire and Rex was in cruise control once he got paid from Pegula(outside of when we played the Jets), then I don't know what to tell you. If the team is absolutely putrid next season then any option is fair game, IMO. No need to tell me anything . . . especially after the biblical three game stretch we had this season. Objectively, Rex was the most successful Buffalo Bills coach since Wade - even with all of the injuries and effort to undermine him. I get that some people are biased against him and like to throw around phrases like "tire fire" or "clown." To me, this was unfair given his relative success in context and how the guy embraced Buffalo. Even when the guy was being thrown under the bus, he never took a shot at Whaley or ownership while he was the head coach. You guys got your way so you should be happy. Congratulations. We have McBeane and their "process" and people are voting with their wallets by not buying tickets. Fun. 1
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, Peter said: No need to tell me anything . . . especially after the biblical three game stretch we had this season. Objectively, Rex was the most successful Buffalo Bills coach since Wade - even with all of the injuries and effort to undermine him. I get that some people are biased against him and like to throw around phrases like "tire fire" or "clown." To me, this was unfair given his relative success in context and how the guy embraced Buffalo. Even when the guy was being thrown under the bus, he never took a shot at Whaley or ownership while he was the head coach. You guys got your way so you should be happy. Congratulations. We have McBeane and their "process" and people are voting with their wallets by not buying tickets. Fun. I mostly agree with you, but I like the way these guys are operating. Trimming fat, and moving guys who are problematic.
Mr. WEO Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 15 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options. Better than who?
YoloinOhio Posted December 7, 2017 Author Posted December 7, 2017 25 minutes ago, kdiggz said: this is actually really bad news for us. they were going to get AJ McCarron and not draft a QB. now that is probably out the window and they will be taking a QB #1 overall. sucks for us Well Hue is the one who wanted mccarron and he’s still there. Plus McCarron is trying to get the Bengals to count his first year as accrued even though he was injured so he can be a FA this year.. not sure that’s resolved yet.
Mr. WEO Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 20 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: someone with strong experience and success in drafting and building consistently winning football teams is critical to the future of the Cleveland Browns 20 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: The Browns almost make me feel like the league is rigged. They are so incredibly stupid it's hard to believe it's reality. The quote above is the best! NOW he thinks it would be a good idea to hire someone with experience?
BillsFan4 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: 1-27 Hue is safe Quote Thursday's shakeup continues a run that has made Cleveland the NFL's most unstable franchise. Since returning to Cleveland, the Browns had had eight different general managers -- Brown, Ray Farmer, Michael Lombardi, Tom Heckert, George Kokinis, Phil Savage, Butch Davis and Dwight Clark. It also has employed longtime executives Paul DePodesta, Joe Banner, Mike Holmgren and Mike Keenan. The Browns also have had nine head coaches since 1999, tied for fourth-most in the NFL. The Bills, Dolphins and Raiders have all had 10. Depressing that we have actually had more head coaches during our drought than the Browns have... i know ive said this numerous times before, but IMO bad teams stay bad by constantly firain't coaches and GMs. That is why I think it's crucial that we stick with a coach and GM and see what happens when we let them build something and not abort the plan 2-3 years in... 1
corta765 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Better than who? Well Darnold, Rosen, & at least Jackson all have been graded higher then Mahomes/Trubisky/Waston entering the draft not accounting Watsons amazing stretch for the sake of keeping just focused on leaving college for the draft. I have zero clue if any of them or someone like Allen or Mayfield will be better then the 2016 QB's, Goff, or Wentz, but those analyzing this draft/NFL personnel love the potential and traits shown thus far from this class compared to the previous 2 years. That said I still think the Browns kinda blew it not taking a guy in either of the previous 2 years. 3 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: Depressing that we have actually had more head coaches during our drought than the Browns have... i know ive said this numerous times before, but IMO bad teams stay bad by constantly firain't coaches and GMs. That is why I think it's crucial that we stick with a coach and GM and see what happens when we let them build something and not abort the plan 2-3 years in... This is the sole reason I would've kept Rex Ryan for one more season especially if you were bringing back Tyrod. If you were going to do that again then give Rex one more year with his guys and draft picks to try and make it work. If it would've failed then scorch the earth on everything to start fresh. And for the record I was not and am not a Ryan fan in the least, but you gotta let a coach have enough time to make his mark. 3 years at least gives him 2 years of his draft and players and time to get his system in for better or worse.
hondo in seattle Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: This is a very interesting assessment. Unfortunately, 1-27 says Sashi will never get another chance with a different team.
Mr. WEO Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, corta765 said: Well Darnold, Rosen, & at least Jackson all have been graded higher then Mahomes/Trubisky/Waston entering the draft not accounting Watsons amazing stretch for the sake of keeping just focused on leaving college for the draft. I have zero clue if any of them or someone like Allen or Mayfield will be better then the 2016 QB's, Goff, or Wentz, but those analyzing this draft/NFL personnel love the potential and traits shown thus far from this class compared to the previous 2 years. That said I still think the Browns kinda blew it not taking a guy in either of the previous 2 years. It's the previous draft that that really blew it. They had a chance again last year. Passed. As an organization, you can't keep saying "yeah but let's see how NEXT year's QBs grade out". And I doubt if they were even thinking that anyway. Their HC's solution to their QB problem was to bring in RG3. Everyone should be fired in that building....
K-9 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Moneyball passed on Wentz, Goff, Trubisky, and Watson. Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 11 minutes ago, K-9 said: Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down. This is a weaker QB draft? I think the top guys seem just as good as the last few drafts, and there's a decent amount of mid-level guys with more talent and intangibles. Nobody will come out without something of an issue. Wentz struggled with deep passes, Goff didn't play under center/played in a spread - same as Trubisky and Watson. That makes scouting that much more important. Beyond all of that - COACHING for your QB is clearly really important. I don't know that we have good guys in the room right now, and i don't know that we have in the last 15 years.
stony Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 33 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Yes, he could have. But I get the feeling that despite the w/l record, they're on the right path. And they get pick of the litter this year...with objectively better QB options. So do I. Only "downside" is he didn't draft a QB...which maybe he was waiting on until this year. 5 minutes ago, K-9 said: Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down. Is it a weaker draft? People act like Wentz was a sure thing and Watson was going to be an All-Star from day 1. Brown's philosophy was to hedge against this uncertainty at the top of the draft by accumulating a boatload of picks. He just never got to take a swing. The next guy up is going to take a swing, and will benefit from Brown's stockpile of talent and picks.
K-9 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 1 minute ago, dneveu said: This is a weaker QB draft? I think the top guys seem just as good as the last few drafts, and there's a decent amount of mid-level guys with more talent and intangibles. Nobody will come out without something of an issue. Wentz struggled with deep passes, Goff didn't play under center/played in a spread - same as Trubisky and Watson. That makes scouting that much more important. Beyond all of that - COACHING for your QB is clearly really important. I don't know that we have good guys in the room right now, and i don't know that we have in the last 15 years. Compared to the last two classes, yeah, I don't think it's as strong and those two classes had a ton of question marks as it was. I think Rosen is the only legit top 10 prospect at the moment. That said, if the Browns are convinced that a QB is worth it, and they feel they have the right environment for a rookie QB to come into, then they should go ahead and get their guy and be done with it. I just think there are far better prospects at other positions vs. the QB crop. You're spot on with regard to the idea that all prospects have warts. I think Cleveland would be better served by continuing to collect blue chip talent at the top of the draft in favor of better prospects at other positions without the those question marks. Screwing the pooch on a QB is different than screwing the pooch on any other position it seems. I don't think that's fair, but it's held to a different level of scrutiny.
Thurman#1 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 3 hours ago, joesixpack said: Bad move, bad look. The guy had one draft, am i correct? He was hired in January of 2016 and is often held accountable for not picking Wentz. So, two, I think.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 49 minutes ago, K-9 said: Yep. And now, under the pressure of that scrutiny, they will force themselves to take a lesser prospect in a far weaker QB draft. They should resist the temptation and take a blue chip talent at another position early or trade down. You may be the only person on earth taht thinks this is a weaker qb draft.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 7, 2017 Posted December 7, 2017 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Ha! I recall Mike Schopp lauding the Browns as the model rebuild and how the Bills would be smart to follow their blueprint. I hate Schoop but he kinda was right. The Browns just drafted really, really poorly. if we miss the playoffs, would you rather have the 12-20 pick or the 1 overall? As terrible as the Browns are, they still have a great chance at a really good qb prospect.
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