Do you take Lamar Jackson?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I agree with you at QB.  BTW, we call it mental, but it is a special skill that some athletes have.  It is not intelligence in the traditional sense, but rather the ability to innately see, process what you see and react almost instantly.  This is a different kind of mental aptitude that the great ones have.

 

Preparation in knowing the plays and repetition can help, but I'm not sure that this aptitude can really be developed much - I think you either have "it" or you don't.  I do wonder if virtual reality simulators could help QBs improve in this area without the wear and tear of having to be on the practice/game field to get those mental reps.

 

....nicely done......and I like steering clear of "intelligence" versus mental aptitude.......cannot even fathom, how the best of them get it done in 5 seconds or less...."special" as you said...

[Solomon Grundy]

Ian Wharton did his film study on Lamar Jackson

 

https://twitter.com/NFLFilmStudy/status/904403766597836801

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by the skycap

[Solomon Grundy]

On December 31, 2017 at 1:18 PM, OldTimer1960 said:

I agree with you at QB.  BTW, we call it mental, but it is a special skill that some athletes have.  It is not intelligence in the traditional sense, but rather the ability to innately see, process what you see and react almost instantly.  This is a different kind of mental aptitude that the great ones have.

 

Preparation in knowing the plays and repetition can help, but I'm not sure that this aptitude can really be developed much - I think you either have "it" or you don't.  I do wonder if virtual reality simulators could help QBs improve in this area without the wear and tear of having to be on the practice/game field to get those mental reps.

Here's a perfect example of what you're speaking of with two 2018 prospects, Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. This film exemplifies why I'm so high on Jackson.

 

 

[Agent 91]

On 12/5/2017 at 11:00 AM, thenorthremembers said:

Was cold on Jackson at the start of the year but as the year went on I think he improved as a passer.   Wouldnt trade up for him, but if he falls to the middle of the 1st round and Darnold, Rosen, Rudolph and Mayfield are all gone I'd be ok with it.   I still worry he is too much like our current quarterback but his height is an immediate advantage in comparison with Tyrod.

 

 

If he could replicate Taylor's escapability and give us 175 to 200 per in this offense. I am cool with him.. I cant stand Rods reluctance. I see Jackson as someone who will take a chance. Thats all I can really ask take the chance.and throw the ball!!!!

[Gugny]

No.

[PaattMaann]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

No.

 

solid post brother, SOLID! 

 

Love your contribution to this thread...

 

now, care to substantiate your "No" with any reasons/facts/stats?

[Gugny]

5 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

solid post brother, SOLID! 

 

Love your contribution to this thread...

 

now, care to substantiate your "No" with any reasons/facts/stats?

 

Sure.  His failure as an NFL QB is imminent.  He's inaccurate.  He has poor mechanics.  He doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed, either.  He's a bigger Mike Vick/Tyrod Taylor.  Stats don't matter.  QBs like this tear up college defenses all the time.  We've traveled this road for the last three years.  He's not an NFL QB.  If any team is thinking about drafting this kid to be their starting QB, they should just call Beane and trade for Tyrod.  And if the Bills are considering picking him, they might as well just keep Tyrod.

[PaattMaann]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Sure.  His failure as an NFL QB is imminent.  He's inaccurate.  He has poor mechanics.  He doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed, either.  He's a bigger Mike Vick/Tyrod Taylor.  Stats don't matter.  QBs like this tear up college defenses all the time.  We've traveled this road for the last three years.  He's not an NFL QB.  If any team is thinking about drafting this kid to be their starting QB, they should just call Beane and trade for Tyrod.  And if the Bills are considering picking him, they might as well just keep Tyrod.

 

thats better gug!

 

I just have to whole heartedly disagree with you. I don't see him as inaccurate and especially not poor mechanics (sometimes he has struggled to reset his shoulders..but no long windup/foot issues). I have never spoken to him so I can't speak to his intelligence. I would say his athleticism and arm strength could garner him the comparison to Vick. As far as TT goes, no where near each other in QB'ing...Jackson actually seems to throw receivers open and fit balls into tight spaces/take chances. 

 

I am obviously not going to (or trying to) convince you he could be a good NFL QB, but check out the link above with Ian Wharton's film study on him and after watching it, tell me you still see the TT comp's 

[Like A Mofo]

I have not studied Lamar Jackson a LOT, have watched a few games and he is a very exciting college QB.

 

Having said this, my 2 reasons why I would rather pass:

 

1. Accuracy: You have to be accurate in today's NFL, and I do not see that from Lamar.

2. Louisville QB's: Always leery of QB's from a Bobby Petrino offense.

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, PaattMaann said:

 

thats better gug!

 

I just have to whole heartedly disagree with you. I don't see him as inaccurate and especially not poor mechanics (sometimes he has struggled to reset his shoulders..but no long windup/foot issues). I have never spoken to him so I can't speak to his intelligence. I would say his athleticism and arm strength could garner him the comparison to Vick. As far as TT goes, no where near each other in QB'ing...Jackson actually seems to throw receivers open and fit balls into tight spaces/take chances. 

 

I am obviously not going to (or trying to) convince you he could be a good NFL QB, but check out the link above with Ian Wharton's film study on him and after watching it, tell me you still see the TT comp's 

 

Like I said.  Lots of QBs do great things in college ...

 

 

[PaattMaann]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Like I said.  Lots of QBs do great things in college ...

 

 

 

I am not interested in TT in college...TT has no bearing on Lamar Jackson's potential as an NFL QB 

 

And Lamar has been pretty good in college, I wouldn't call him great...and has done so with pretty paltry talent around him. I like the potential. 

 

I would prefer to stay put and take a shot on Jackson/Rudolph/Finley instead of trying to mortgage the future on Darnold/Rosen...which certainly slants my opinion of Jackson (because he is a realistic target at QB in this draft).

[Gugny]

Just now, PaattMaann said:

 

I am not interested in TT in college...TT has no bearing on Lamar Jackson's potential as an NFL QB 

 

And Lamar has been pretty good in college, I wouldn't call him great...and has done so with pretty paltry talent around him. I like the potential. 

 

I would prefer to stay put and take a shot on Jackson/Rudolph/Finley instead of trying to mortgage the future on Darnold/Rosen...which certainly slants my opinion of Jackson (because he is a realistic target at QB in this draft).

 

Well, all I can do is respectfully disagree, then light a candle and thank every God imaginable that you're not the GM. 

[Kirby Jackson]

I knew this thread would make me cringe. Everyone has a scouting report on Jackson without watching him. “He’s athletic, inaccurate, doesn’t read defenses, poor mechanics, and doesn’t throw with anticipation. He’s just like (insert black QB here).” 

 

Now, Jackson has improved as a passer each year. His accuracy is well ahead of Allen (for example) and he has a big arm. He can throw into tight windows and his mechanics come and go. He has an effortless throwing motion though. Additionally, he is the best athlete to play QB since (and maybe including) Vick. Jackson is a bit raw but can make explosive plays with his arm and legs. 

 

This is my annual plea to look player and not compare him to a bunch of guys that look like him. I say the same thing with Baker. Can we please watch Baker and not see Johnny? Can we watch Lamar and not see Vick? Let’s watch these guys and judge them on their own merit like we will with Darnold, Rosen and Rudolph.

[Royale with Cheese]

Beane stated that the QB they are looking for has to be able to make plays from the pocket....it's a must.

I don't think that's Jackson.

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I knew this thread would make me cringe. Everyone has a scouting report on Jackson without watching him. “He’s athletic, inaccurate, doesn’t read defenses, poor mechanics, and doesn’t throw with anticipation. He’s just like (insert black QB here).” 

 

Now, Jackson has improved as a passer each year. His accuracy is well ahead of Allen (for example) and he has a big arm. He can throw into tight windows and his mechanics come and go. He has an effortless throwing motion though. Additionally, he is the best athlete to play QB since (and maybe including) Vick. Jackson is a bit raw but can make explosive plays with his arm and legs. 

 

This is my annual plea to look player and not compare him to a bunch of guys that look like him. I say the same thing with Baker. Can we please watch Baker and not see Johnny? Can we watch Lamar and not see Vick? Let’s watch these guys and judge them on their own merit like we will with Darnold, Rosen and Rudolph.

 

Every college QB who has ever been part of the "draft conversation," has been compared to an NFL QB.

 

If you want to compare him to a white NFL QB, I think Tebow might be the only one.  I don't think people are comparing Jackson to Vick because they're both black.  They're being compared because they have the same strengths and weaknesses.

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Every college QB who has ever been part of the "draft conversation," has been compared to an NFL QB.

 

If you want to compare him to a white NFL QB, I think Tebow might be the only one.  I don't think people are comparing Jackson to Vick because they're both black.  They're being compared because they have the same strengths and weaknesses.

Jackson and Tebow are literally nothing alike. 

[JohnC]

27 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Jackson and Tebow are literally nothing alike. 

In my view Jackson is not the type of qb you would trade a boatload of picks for as I would do for a more a finished prospect such as Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield. When you watch Jackson play you see a sprinkle of plays that feature stunning passes and even some good pocket presence. I like him a lot. But compared to the three other qbs I mentioned he is more developmental. I'm fine with taking the time to grooming.him in comparison to the other top prospects where you can get earlier play. I like him a lot. Assuming the Bills get a credible veteran qb as a bridge I would be happy with the selection of Jackson. Assuming that Rosen and Darnold are not attainable I would be a strong advocate for investing assets for Mayfield. I like him a lot. He would be the type of qb and personality that the region would embrace. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

If Jackson was there when our 2nd round pick rolled around and we hadn't taken a QB yet then I'd take him I suppose.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

In my view Jackson is not the type of qb you would trade a boatload of picks for as I would do for a more a finished prospect such as Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield. When you watch Jackson play you see a sprinkle of plays that feature stunning passes and even some good pocket presence. I like him a lot. But compared to the three other qbs I mentioned he is more developmental. I'm fine with taking the time to grooming.him in comparison to the other top prospects where you can get earlier play. I like him a lot. Assuming the Bills get a credible veteran qb as a bridge I would be happy with the selection of Jackson. Assuming that Rosen and Darnold are not attainable I would be a strong advocate for investing assets for Mayfield. I like him a lot. He would be the type of qb and personality that the region would embrace. 

I am 100% in agreement with you on all of this. Jackson, for me, is an option if it is too costly to move up. You’d have to have a vet for a year or so but he could be great. He has a relatively low floor but an enormous ceiling. I’m not necessarily advocating for him but certainly wouldn’t hate it.

[JohnC]

26 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I am 100% in agreement with you on all of this. Jackson, for me, is an option if it is too costly to move up. You’d have to have a vet for a year or so but he could be great. He has a relatively low floor but an enormous ceiling. I’m not necessarily advocating for him but certainly wouldn’t hate it.

The mistake that a team that selects him can't make is follow the Robert Griffin III roadmap. RG III needed time to get stronger and learn how to play the pro game. Shanahan told the headstrong owner who was insistent on drafting him and mortgaging the future with lost picks that RG III was a talent but needed years to transition to the pro game. The worst thing that happened was that RG III had early success. He then went into his diva act that precluded him from learning how to play the pro game. I'm not suggesting that Griffin wasn't a worker because he was. But he was headstrong when  it came to learning how to play the position. In hindsight Shanahan was right on Griffin and remarkably was right on Cousins who he actually preferred. 

 

What I like about Jackson in comparison to Griffin is that he appears to have the vision and see plays develop that Griffin couldn't comprehend. It's not completely there yet but although it is still rudimentary you can see that the potential to develop into a more polished game. From everything I have heard about Lamar he is a good kid and a worker. Griffin was too concerned about being a personality while Jackson seems genuinely interested in the game. Again, I like him a lot but one has to be aware that he is a future investment without an immediate return.