buffalostu2 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Defensively, Yes. Offensively, hard to argue. We do not have a passing QB for the talent they brought in at WR. The WR corps have been practically useless with TT under center. This regime is supposed to be process oriented. Changing variables (WRs) in your process disrupts the expected results. If they didn't know the instability on offense they would create then the should stop using the word process.
aceman_16 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: I can't really give credit to McD or Beane for the lack of talent on the current roster, sorry. I am thinking they are re-tooling and that was intentional. Therefore, I give them a lot of credit for less talent on this team.
teef Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, buffalostu2 said: This is the same as giving credit for McD having the guts to start Peterman but not making him responsible for the result. Only delusional Bills fans can take self inflicted problems and give credit for overcoming them. All they needed to do was play defense with the current roster and this team was capable of winning 10 games. Expectations deteriorated because of the moves they made. How do you give credit for that? i don't know why this is so hard. i'm not saying the possible 8/9 wins is a good thing at all, but tell me that you actually thought that was possible given the roster. did they create this roster? of course, but some people act like this the team that will be here for the next 3-4 years. it certainly won't be. the bills got some value for guys that most likely wouldn't have been here next year, or just weren't living up to expectations. it was never about this year. we weren't winning with the guys traded, so at least get value while you build something new. stop messing around, get a qb, and build the lines.
Nick the Greek Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 Going into the season I truly believed in 4-12 to 5-11.. so at 7-9 is 2 wins really all that impressive? Eh? I guess.
corta765 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Rigotz said: No, I'm not being sarcastic. Last year, we went 7-9. In the off-season and during 2017, we lost: -Our three best wide receivers -Our two best corners -Our pro-bowl DT -Two starting linebackers We gained: -An unheralded FS and SS (Hyde and Poyer) -An unheralded CB (Gaines) -A better kicker (Haushka) -A great WR for one game (Benjamin) and throw-in (Matthews) Most of us thought it would be a 4-12 season. To take that many personnel losses and IMPROVE to 8-8 or 9-7 with a significantly worse roster... To me, that's impressive. The luster loses it shine when you realize how close we were to breaking the drought in a year with a weak AFC and schedule that offered that chance assuming they don't make it in. I agree progress has been made but it is also very possible that we actually have a worse record next year despite a better roster.
Dan Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 12 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: Care to ellaborate? He does have a point. Sure. As others have suggested, the "loses" were due to the current FO getting rid of those players, the "unheralded" additions were hand picked as the replacements by the current FO. So, they dug their own hole. Now we should be impressed that they put the dirt back in it? Many people may have predicted or expected a 4-6 win season, but not me. But I guess I think differently. As I see it, if you're making the roster changes they made, they must think the new guys are much better than the old guys; so we should be better not worse than the previous year. So if we end up with the same record or a game better, why should I be impressed? Now... granted, I'm not saying the team is in disarray and McD needs to be replaced as some are. I am suggesting that for the good they did this season (5-2 start), there's also been a lot of bad. And much of that bad is self-inflicted (starting Nate when he was obviously not ready and costing us a win). So, I'm certainly not impressed. I get the argument that these players were bad and didn't buy into the process; therefore, they needed to go. But, at some point isn't it the coaches job to get players to buy in as opposed to just dumping them all if they don't immediately? In my opinion, and I know it doesn't mean much, but one of the reasons this franchise has mired in mediocrity is because we have a history of dumping good players simply because they don't like it here, while keeping lesser talented players because they buy in. As much as we need a franchise QB, we need a coach that can convince talented players to play hard each week ...for Buffalo. So, no I'm not impressed with anything the Bills have done this year. They avoided a full tank and gave us all some excitement and that is good. But, until all their moves translates into a team that can actually show up and look like a hard-hitting professional team capable of playing with anyone in the league... They're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I guess I could have summed all that up and just said... I expected the Patriots to beat us by 4 scores yesterday. But, we only got beat by 3 scores... That's impressive.
teef Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Dan said: Sure. As others have suggested, the "loses" were due to the current FO getting rid of those players, the "unheralded" additions were hand picked as the replacements by the current FO. So, they dug their own hole. Now we should be impressed that they put the dirt back in it? Many people may have predicted or expected a 4-6 win season, but not me. But I guess I think differently. As I see it, if you're making the roster changes they made, they must think the new guys are much better than the old guys; so we should be better not worse than the previous year. So if we end up with the same record or a game better, why should I be impressed? Now... granted, I'm not saying the team is in disarray and McD needs to be replaced as some are. I am suggesting that for the good they did this season (5-2 start), there's also been a lot of bad. And much of that bad is self-inflicted (starting Nate when he was obviously not ready and costing us a win). So, I'm certainly not impressed. I get the argument that these players were bad and didn't buy into the process; therefore, they needed to go. But, at some point isn't it the coaches job to get players to buy in as opposed to just dumping them all if they don't immediately? In my opinion, and I know it doesn't mean much, but one of the reasons this franchise has mired in mediocrity is because we have a history of dumping good players simply because they don't like it here, while keeping lesser talented players because they buy in. As much as we need a franchise QB, we need a coach that can convince talented players to play hard each week ...for Buffalo. So, no I'm not impressed with anything the Bills have done this year. They avoided a full tank and gave us all some excitement and that is good. But, until all their moves translates into a team that can actually show up and look like a hard-hitting professional team capable of playing with anyone in the league... They're just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I guess I could have summed all that up and just said... I expected the Patriots to beat us by 4 scores yesterday. But, we only got beat by 3 scores... That's impressive. i don't know why people think this way. they made the roster changes to try to gain some draft capital for guys that were not likely going to be on the team next year. the moves weren't made for this year, and i don't know how anyone could see it that way.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 16 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said: This regime is supposed to be process oriented. Changing variables (WRs) in your process disrupts the expected results. If they didn't know the instability on offense they would create then the should stop using the word process. What was the big complaint? We lost Sammy (who was underachieving because of TT) They brought in equivalent talent - to no end because TT doesn't pass the darn ball. You get stability through repetition. 20 total passes to 5 guys aint getting it done.
Dan Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, teef said: i don't know why people think this way. they made the roster changes to try to gain some draft capital for guys that were not likely going to be on the team next year. the moves weren't made for this year, and i don't know how anyone could see it that way. So we all know the future of who would re-sign and who wouldn't? I do agree... They wanted alot of draft picks and they traded away most anyone they could to get it and reshape the roster in their image. It's one hell of a risky move, and one that is likely to take 3 years to see the results. I just think too many people are giving them credit for this great draft and the amazing future we're going to have. I'll be impressed when they field a team that can compete in the NFL every week and not put up 8 yards of offense in the third quarter, or whatever it ended up being.
ddaryl Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 Hope springs eternal Who knows if we keep Woods Watkins Dareus etc.. they might of poisoned the locker room into a a 6- 10 or 7-9 season which is still possible... But to strip this roster down and still be in the hunt in December is a tad bit surprising because to most of us, after the preseason fire sale at DB and WR, who would of thought we'd actually win 6 games SO in I'm going to be an optomist there it is
Hebert19 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 I actually agree. This is not a good football team...at all. Heart yes. Talent. No. We can't pass for 200 yards. We can't stop the run. We can't put pressure on qb. I'd argue that we have a bottom 5 to 10 roster yet we may go over 500. That's amazing.
teef Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, Dan said: So we all know the future of who would re-sign and who wouldn't? I do agree... They wanted alot of draft picks and they traded away most anyone they could to get it and reshape the roster in their image. It's one hell of a risky move, and one that is likely to take 3 years to see the results. I just think too many people are giving them credit for this great draft and the amazing future we're going to have. I'll be impressed when they field a team that can compete in the NFL every week and not put up 8 yards of offense in the third quarter, or whatever it ended up being. of course we have no idea about the future of who is going to re-sign, but we can use common sense to help make a conclusion. did you really think watkins was going to return? he wants money, and with tyrod as his qb, he sure wouldn't have put of the production that he'd want to be paid for. on top of that, why would he want to be on a team with such uncertainty at qb? it just wasn't good situation for him here, so i'm more than glad to get a second and a player. i agree with everything else. everything going on is risky, and it's going to take time. i have zero idea if it will work, but i think the plan is to build this team so they're not a one and done in the playoffs, (assuming they actually start going to the playoffs).
Dan Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, teef said: of course we have no idea about the future of who is going to re-sign, but we can use common sense to help make a conclusion. did you really think watkins was going to return? he wants money, and with tyrod as his qb, he sure wouldn't have put of the production that he'd want to be paid for. on top of that, why would he want to be on a team with such uncertainty at qb? it just wasn't good situation for him here, so i'm more than glad to get a second and a player. i agree with everything else. everything going on is risky, and it's going to take time. i have zero idea if it will work, but i think the plan is to build this team so they're not a one and done in the playoffs, (assuming they actually start going to the playoffs). And I think we can ...all.. agree that we hope they're successful in the rebuild.
teef Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dan said: And I think we can ...all.. agree that we hope they're successful in the rebuild. unfortunately i just don't think it's going to happen quick. if this team can get a qb this draft, i'll feel a lot better about the whole thing.
Dan Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, teef said: unfortunately i just don't think it's going to happen quick. if this team can get a qb this draft, i'll feel a lot better about the whole thing. Without a real QB, none of the moves on or off the field matter.
nedboy7 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: They created the lack of talent. its ok to envolve. Before the season, 8-8 and 9-7 might have looked good. But so did teams like the Bucs and Broncos. The AFC sucks. Sammy Watkins wasn't able to be replaced by Matthews or Benjamin. Dareus would have helped a playoff run more than a 6th rounder. SM benching TT was the single dumbest coaching decision of the season. color me unimpressed with Dick Jauron Jr. his clapping game is on point though. well said.
Royale with Cheese Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 Pretty impressive from what I was expecting before the season. But now disappointing because we were once 5-2. 1
Jasovon Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 Coaching does seem to be fixed, we now have a talent issue and that is significantly easier to fix.
dave mcbride Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 3 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: They created the lack of talent. its ok to envolve. Before the season, 8-8 and 9-7 might have looked good. But so did teams like the Bucs and Broncos. The AFC sucks. Sammy Watkins wasn't able to be replaced by Matthews or Benjamin. Dareus would have helped a playoff run more than a 6th rounder. SM benching TT was the single dumbest coaching decision of the season. color me unimpressed with Dick Jauron Jr. his clapping game is on point though. It's looking like Marcel is going to turn into a fifth rounder. That's what he turns into if he's on the roster at the end of the season and the Jags make the playoffs (which they will).
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