JohnBonhamRocks Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 Regardless of whether we have to trade up for a QB, how do people feel about taking 2 QBs in this draft?
MAJBobby Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Jackington said: Or Jameis or Tannehill or Bradford or Bridgewater or RGIII or Weeden Or EJ Manuel or Bortles or Manziel I get wanting a QB, but it's not easy... Or Cam or Ben or Rivers or Manning x2 or Goff or Watson or Flacco or Ryan wow i can name pull to
Kirby Jackson Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 14 minutes ago, JohnC said: Hypothetically I wouldn't have been against trading one of our first round picks and maybe a second or third round pick for Grappolo. The 49ers gave up a second round pick to get him. The Pats have a history of not being afraid to teams in its division if they believe the deal works for them. I’m not giving up that and turning around to pay him $20M (assuming he is tagged this offseason to facilitate a trade). The only guy I’d throw money at is Cousins and that would allow me to use my picks to plug the other holes. Otherwise I’m going to get my guy in the draft. 3 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: The people who want to sign Cousins and "save the picks" for offensive linemen and defensive backs hope to "make the playoffs" just like Doug Whaley. The People who want to "use" the picks to trade up for a shot at a franchise changing QB want to win Super bowls. Is there anyone who honestly believes Cousins is a Super Bowl quality QB. If so why hasn't Washington gone to the Superbowl? Why hasn’t Philip Rivers gone to the Super Bowl? 1
Chicken Boo Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said: The people who want to sign Cousins and "save the picks" for offensive linemen and defensive backs hope to "make the playoffs" just like Doug Whaley. The People who want to "use" the picks to trade up to a shot at a franchise changing QB want to win Super bowls. Is there anyone who honestly believes Cousins is a Super Bowl quality QB. If so why hasn't Washington gone to the Superbowl? Maybe you're missing the part where Cousins is carrying the Skins. They'd be a 2 win team with Tyrod out there instead. What weapons does he have? The leading rusher on the team has a whopping 465yds on the year with a 3.7ypc. They're currently starting two 3rd string offensive lineman. I wanted the Bills to trade for him 3 years ago. Kirk is legit. He just needs a team around him. Edited December 4, 2017 by Chicken Boo
SoCal Deek Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said: Regardless of whether we have to trade up for a QB, how do people feel about taking 2 QBs in this draft? Play Peterman the rest of the way and then you'll have a better idea of bad the current roster is. I see little good coming from drafting two QBs as some sort of training camp competition or insurance against poor scouting.
Jackington Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Or Cam or Ben or Rivers or Manning x2 or Goff or Watson or Flacco or Ryan wow i can name pull to You can name pull but not understand my point. It's less than a 50% chance to be successful. Is it worth 3 1st round picks for that chance? Or is another route better? Also Rivers only made the playoffs without Tomlinson once and Flacco wasn't in the top 10 for any category the year they won the Super Bowl. Great pulls! Edited December 4, 2017 by Jackington
Dkollidas Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 I am of the mentality that they should find their guy, and do what they need to do to get that guy. I think Rosen ends up going #1, he has a certain confident, brash attitude that I believe Cleveland needs. San Francisco has a lot of picks already, but has a lot of needs. If they move down they’ll be able to hopefully fortify the O-Line, get a receiver or two, and add to the back 7 of their defense (maybe 2 linebackers, and two defensive backs), in the first three rounds. Looking at the 49’ers they need the following: RB- Hyde is a UFA I believe. WR- their best guy right now seems to be Goodwin... OT- at least for depth, both their tackles have been injured this season OG- interior line is trash C- need to replace Kilgore who’s aging OLB- Foster is in the middle but the outside is bad OLB- Again, outside is bad CB- Corners aren’t good CB- again, they’re not good FS- also not good, a 2017 7th rounder is the starter here... SS- Reid was shifted to LB for a bit of the season, and is also a UFA So besides Garoppolo at QB, Goodwin as a slot guy, Foster at one of the linebacker spots, and a decent highly drafted group of defensive linemen, this team needs to make additions at virtually every other position. Make ke the move with the 49’ers and get your guys at #2, either Darnold or Rosen, take your pick. 1
JohnBonhamRocks Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Play Peterman the rest of the way and then you'll have a better idea of bad the current roster is. I see little good coming from drafting two QBs as some sort of training camp competition or insurance against poor scouting. This is just one example, but I bet the Redskins fanbase is happy they drafted Cousins after RG3. I personally see no problem with hedging our bets with the most important position.
MAJBobby Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jackington said: You can name pull but not understand my point. It's less than a 50% chance to be successful. Is it worth 3 1st round picks for that chance? Or is another route better? Also Rivers only made the playoffs without Tomlinson once and Flacco wasn't in the top 10 for any category the year they won the Super Bowl. Great pulls! Nah your right its not. Just sot on their hands at QB like they have done over and over again worked for them in the past
BigBuff423 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Dr. Who said: Rudolph will be available late first, maybe even the second. You don't have to trade up to get him and I'd be disappointed if he was our pick. I think your personal disappointment is clouding your judgment....in no way, will Rudolph be available beyond the 1st and I don't even think he makes it into the 20s...he's a superb arm talent with a terrific resume...Bills should be high on him, along with Rose and Darnold...Allen is good, but if any QB slides, I'll call Allen the one who drifts into late 1st and 2nd round...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m not giving up that and turning around to pay him $20M (assuming he is tagged this offseason to facilitate a trade). The only guy I’d throw money at is Cousins and that would allow me to use my picks to plug the other holes. Otherwise I’m going to get my guy in the draft. Why hasn’t Philip Rivers gone to the Super Bowl? We're in agreement here. From what I can see, Cousins + keeping our picks would be the fastest path to success, but using the capital we have to move up for a QB the team is actually willing to invest in and surround with talent (a la Goff/Wentz) is also admirable. I just think the latter situation will take an extra 1-2 years to really pay off (if the QB hits, of course).
teef Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: Nah your right its not. Just sot on their hands at QB like they have done over and over again worked for them in the past at some point you have to take a shot at it. this is a better year than any to try it.
JaCrispy Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Jackington said: I would imagine it would take 15, 20, next years 1st and a 4th. Would you still do it? For Darnold or Rosen? Absolutely, and I wouldn’t think twice about it!!!
Jackington Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: For Darnold or Rosen? Absolutely, and I wouldn’t think twice about it!!! Cool! We need a QB but I'm on the fence about the draft cost. I just want people to know what it will take to make a move like that. I don't know the right answer...
ctk232 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 2 hours ago, westerndecline said: Rudolph is really growing on me Or cousins Bradford Manning Bradford would be a mistake, Cousins I wouldn't give as much credit as people have been giving him (nor his price tag), Eli's interesting but might run into similar cap issue
JaCrispy Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 1 minute ago, Jackington said: Cool! We need a QB but I'm on the fence about the draft cost. I just want people to know what it will take to make a move like that. I don't know the right answer... Understandable...but look how much the Eagles and Rams gave to move up...and look how quickly they turned around...they were both dumpster fires two years ago...Even the Raiders were12-4 last year after being horrible for so long...sure they had an off year this year, but the point is that QBs turn around franchises faster than any other position. If we should have learned anything the passed 17 years it should be this- get your QB first and build around him.
Tatonka68 Posted December 4, 2017 Author Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) People who want to get Cousins and draft Offense linemen are hoping to "make the playoffs". Doug Whaley style. People who want to trade up for a shot a Franchise changing QB want to win Super-bowls. Does anyone seriously believe Cousins can take this team to a Superbowl victory. If so why hasn't he done it in Washington. Edited December 4, 2017 by Tatonka68
BigBuff423 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 13 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: We're in agreement here. From what I can see, Cousins + keeping our picks would be the fastest path to success, but using the capital we have to move up for a QB the team is actually willing to invest in and surround with talent (a la Goff/Wentz) is also admirable. I just think the latter situation will take an extra 1-2 years to really pay off (if the QB hits, of course). However, in 2020 I don't want to be on this message board with basically the same conversation....well, Cousins crapped out, now we have a bunch of young players who are just about to hit their prime years and no QB to utilize them, we'll be back to where we started. Use the FA money to get the supporting cast, then take your QB of the future and see how well they fare, see Prescott, Dak for a Rookie's ability to do that when supported and coached properly....he's shown he's not at the point where he can carry the entire Offense, but with a good running game and Offensive line, he is definitely capable of being a good QB....as you mention Goff / Wentz, they were the franchise, and then their respective GMs got them the supporting cast. The Bills will have the FA money and yes Draft picks to do that this year. Even IF the Bills had to give up both their 1sts, and a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year, they're still left with a 2nd / 3rd / 4th / maybe 2 5ths plus FA money to get their guys....a young QB who will become the franchise and can coalesce the fan base is an important part of what the Bills are missing....
Lfod Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Understandable...but look how much the Eagles and Rams gave to move up...and look how quickly they turned around...they were both dumpster fires two years ago...Even the Raiders were12-4 last year after being horrible for so long...sure they had an off year this year, but the point is that QBs turn around franchises faster than any other position. If we should have learned anything the passed 17 years it should be this- get your QB first and build around him. Hopefully they strike gold if they trade up. If not it will get ugly for them. Take risk with the understanding it's your feet to the fire if it fails. It's easy to say just go do it when it's not your GM job to lose. Edited December 4, 2017 by Lfod 1
ctk232 Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Understandable...but look how much the Eagles and Rams gave to move up...and look how quickly they turned around...they were both dumpster fires two years ago...Even the Raiders were12-4 last year after being horrible for so long...sure they had an off year this year, but the point is that QBs turn around franchises faster than any other position. If we should have learned anything the passed 17 years it should be this- get your QB first and build around him. Two Things: 1. The other thing the Rams and Eagles both did was get lucky. Plain and simple, drafting a QB in the top 5 doesn't mean they'll pan out in the least. But they got lucky, I can think of a couple teams (Browns, Washington) who gave up a lot for busts. Not to mention we cried bloody murder giving up what we did for Watkins, careful what you wish for. 2. Goff was a bust until McVay installed a system that fit more to Goff's skills, coupled with his offseason development. Both QB's are playing in systems that help them. Peterson is a great QB minded coach that the Eagles can lean on, McVay seems to be killing it in his first year as a team coach, but looks to be at least aware of the system fitting the players specific to QB play. Not to mention they're both offensive-minded/oriented coaches. You're right that QB's turn a franchise around faster than any other position. But you need to say "right QB" because the wrong one could waste multiple draft picks and set us back further. I'd rather we maximize our two first rounders rather than convert them back into a single pick. If we can package one with others/future picks then maybe. Just don't expect us to nail the pick simply because we drafted in the top 5. Edited December 4, 2017 by ctk232
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