The Ultimate Bills Debate - Was Doug Whaley A Good GM?

[nucci]

21 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

Never got the coach right but like others have said good scout and talent guy but bad at the admin side. If her were here now though he'd probably sign some practice squad players who come in and help on defensive line right away.

I don't think he was allowed to pick the head coach. Right or wrong, Whaley wanted Hue Jackson. When Ryan was hired Jackson was quoted as saying...I thought I had the job

[bobobonators]

The reason why im high on Whaley is bc i do feel the roster had a lot of talent while he was here. Easily the most talent up and down that roster in well over a decade. 

 

What hurts Whaley? Never found that QB. Tried (at least) but failed. 

 

And Rex Ryan. But Rexy wasnt really his doing as we all know. 

[baskingridgebillsfan]

• The  grade is incomplete.  He did not get to pick a head coach.  This means  any vision he had for the franchise was not followed.  He simply had to find players that fit somebodies vision.  Missing on E.j is not a crime, he took a swing at Qb and missed , not taking another one sooner is more of and issue. By all accounts he was gearing up to take one in the 2017 draft.  
•    No doubt the Watkins deal was a disaster .  Signing Darius, Glenn and Hughes to long tern deals is not an issue to me.  Nobody wanted to see the walk out the door as free agents.  Darius was always going to be a risk, Hughes has earned is contract, as for Glenn I have no idea what is going on.  All we are told is he has a foot and or an ankle injury.  
•   On the plus side he was ready to move on from Taylor which would have avoided this year of qb limbo. He was very good at finding bottom of the roster depth from the street.  There is no way that Mike Tolbert would have been his primary back up running back.  Even a guy like Coleman was found by him , McBean cut his in training camp.   
•   To be fair to Doug you have to judge him against the rest of the league , not in a vacuum.  By no means is he a d or f General manager.  I stand by my original statement that because of the unusual circumstances of his tenure the only grade he can get is Incomplete 

[Mr. WEO]

This sums it up perfectly:

 

"To succeed in this business, it's about two things.  It's about players and winning."

 

God bless him, but come people--it's right there.  And it was there all the time:

 

EJ had "the IT factor", yet when that pick crashed and burned, he "put it out there" that it wasn't necessarily HIS choice. 

 

Rex Ryan pick?  "How do you know?  You just know..." and "Rex and I, like I said from day one, we can complete each other’s sentences. The best thing about our business now is, when someone throws a report out there, they’re more believed than when you ask me a question and I answer it. If I answer it and say, ‘We’re great,’ people are still going to say, ‘I don’t believe him.’ So, that’s the business we’re in and that’s the business we’ve chosen… I’m fine with that. To answer your question, Rex and I are thick as thieves."

 

Yet he would later claim that he never knew Rex was "on the hot seat", as they say.  Some "married couple" those two were, eh?

 

Also emblematic of Whaley's brief painful stint as GM was his wildly overpaying for Watkins in a draft absolutely STACKED with stud WRs (go see how they are doing now).

 

 

The reason he will never be a Gm again is that every other team FO/ownership will view him as overpromoted and underskilled---AND as a guy who, when decisions he had a central part in making go south,  is happy to put it out there that those weren't REALLY his decisions.  Not a stand up guy at all.  Witness his last few completely disastrous and embarrassing press conferences last year.  He couldn't or wouldn't even articulate what his job was at that point.

 

He was a horrible GM.

 

Edited December 3, 2017 by Mr. WEO

[baskingridgebillsfan]

11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

This sums it up perfectly:

 

"To succeed in this business, it's about two things.  It's about players and winning."

 

God bless him, but come people--it's right there.  And it was there all the time:

 

EJ had "the IT factor", yet when that pick crashed and burned, he "put it out there" that it wasn't necessarily HIS choice. 

 

Rex Ryan pick?  "How do you know?  You just know..." and "Rex and I, like I said from day one, we can complete each other’s sentences. The best thing about our business now is, when someone throws a report out there, they’re more believed than when you ask me a question and I answer it. If I answer it and say, ‘We’re great,’ people are still going to say, ‘I don’t believe him.’ So, that’s the business we’re in and that’s the business we’ve chosen… I’m fine with that. To answer your question, Rex and I are thick as thieves."

 

Yet he would later claim that he never knew Rex was "on the hot seat", as they say.  Some "married couple" those two were, eh?

 

Also emblematic of Whaley's brief painful stint as GM was his wildly overpaying for Watkins in a draft absolutely STACKED with stud WRs (go see how they are doing now).

 

 

The reason he will never be a Gm again is that every other team FO/ownership will view him as overpromoted and underskilled---AND as a guy who, when decisions he had a central part in making go south,  is happy to put it out there that those weren't REALLY his decisions.  Not a stand up guy at all.  Witness his last few completely disastrous and embarrassing press conferences last year.  He couldn't or wouldn't even articulate what his job was at that point.

 

He was a horrible GM.

 

The last press conference was a big f.U to the organization .  The owners were going around him and interfering . He finally threw them under the bus.  The fact the local media didn't figure that out is just Bhaaad 

[racketmaster]

I believe Whaley is a good evaluator of talent. Looking bad, I think he had some issues seeing the overall big picture and managing/allocating cap dollars. We have definitely had worse gms, but he did have some significant flaws. I don’t care too much about his lack of public speaking but he did get dogged for that as well. 

[Rico]

I will give him credit for Nick O’Leary, he’s a decent back-up TE. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Rico said:

I will give him credit for Nick O’Leary, he’s a decent back-up TE. 

 

....so he has an outside shot of making your Christmas list after all?.......

[BadLandsMeanie]

49 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

This sums it up perfectly:

 

"To succeed in this business, it's about two things.  It's about players and winning."

 

God bless him, but come people--it's right there.  And it was there all the time:

 

EJ had "the IT factor", yet when that pick crashed and burned, he "put it out there" that it wasn't necessarily HIS choice. 

 

Rex Ryan pick?  "How do you know?  You just know..." and "Rex and I, like I said from day one, we can complete each other’s sentences. The best thing about our business now is, when someone throws a report out there, they’re more believed than when you ask me a question and I answer it. If I answer it and say, ‘We’re great,’ people are still going to say, ‘I don’t believe him.’ So, that’s the business we’re in and that’s the business we’ve chosen… I’m fine with that. To answer your question, Rex and I are thick as thieves."

 

Yet he would later claim that he never knew Rex was "on the hot seat", as they say.  Some "married couple" those two were, eh?

 

Also emblematic of Whaley's brief painful stint as GM was his wildly overpaying for Watkins in a draft absolutely STACKED with stud WRs (go see how they are doing now).

 

 

The reason he will never be a Gm again is that every other team FO/ownership will view him as overpromoted and underskilled---AND as a guy who, when decisions he had a central part in making go south,  is happy to put it out there that those weren't REALLY his decisions.  Not a stand up guy at all.  Witness his last few completely disastrous and embarrassing press conferences last year.  He couldn't or wouldn't even articulate what his job was at that point.

 

He was a horrible GM.

 

Thank you Sir. Excellent points.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

52 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

This sums it up perfectly:

 

"To succeed in this business, it's about two things.  It's about players and winning."

 

God bless him, but come people--it's right there.  And it was there all the time:

 

EJ had "the IT factor", yet when that pick crashed and burned, he "put it out there" that it wasn't necessarily HIS choice. 

 

Rex Ryan pick?  "How do you know?  You just know..." and "Rex and I, like I said from day one, we can complete each other’s sentences. The best thing about our business now is, when someone throws a report out there, they’re more believed than when you ask me a question and I answer it. If I answer it and say, ‘We’re great,’ people are still going to say, ‘I don’t believe him.’ So, that’s the business we’re in and that’s the business we’ve chosen… I’m fine with that. To answer your question, Rex and I are thick as thieves."

 

Yet he would later claim that he never knew Rex was "on the hot seat", as they say.  Some "married couple" those two were, eh?

 

Also emblematic of Whaley's brief painful stint as GM was his wildly overpaying for Watkins in a draft absolutely STACKED with stud WRs (go see how they are doing now).

 

 

The reason he will never be a Gm again is that every other team FO/ownership will view him as overpromoted and underskilled---AND as a guy who, when decisions he had a central part in making go south,  is happy to put it out there that those weren't REALLY his decisions.  Not a stand up guy at all.  Witness his last few completely disastrous and embarrassing press conferences last year.  He couldn't or wouldn't even articulate what his job was at that point.

 

He was a horrible GM.

 

...possibly......he had his good points as well as his bad ones as most do....he may have been better equipped to be a scouting/personnel guy versus the bigger picture demands of a GM......at the same time, he did attempt to make a go of it in an OBD environment that was as dysfunctional as dysfunctional can get post Polian era.....it was a patchwork gang of clowns in position(s) that they were unqualified for and had ZERO business being in as well as being beyond their better days....you can fill in the blanks with names....his pedigree was Pittsburgh which is a pretty well oiled machine (DON'T remind me please that was Donohole's origin) under Colbert's guidance since 2000....

[Mr. WEO]

44 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

The last press conference was a big f.U to the organization .  The owners were going around him and interfering . He finally threw them under the bus.  The fact the local media didn't figure that out is just Bhaaad 

 

No, it really wasn't.  This was more of the same from a guy who pumps up his bad decisions...until they crash and burn.  Then he sits there and tries to convince some (you for instance) that yet again, his better judgment was ignored (!) by everyone around him when such decisions were made.  Why would an intelligent man make himself look, in a very public way, so unbelievably stupid...just to "F" the organization that finally got tired of his ineptitude?

 

8 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Thank you Sir. Excellent points.

 

Thanks.  The Whaley question was never really a head scratcher.  This guy never should have been promoted to GM.

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...possibly......he had his good points as well as his bad ones as most do....he may have been better equipped to be a scouting/personnel guy versus the bigger picture demands of a GM......at the same time, he did attempt to make a go of it in an OBD environment that was as dysfunctional as dysfunctional can get post Polian era.....it was a patchwork gang of clowns in position(s) that they were unqualified for and had ZERO business being in as well as being beyond their better days....you can fill in the blanks with names....his pedigree was Pittsburgh which is a pretty well oiled machine (DON'T remind me please that was Donohole's origin) under Colbert's guidance since 2000....

 

He was a significant part of the dysfunction.  Turns out he was just a yes man.

 

Pittsburgh never relied on Whaley to make a single decision.  He really didn't have such a "pedigree".

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No, it really wasn't.  This was more of the same from a guy who pumps up his bad decisions...until they crash and burn.  Then he sits there and tries to convince some (you for instance) that yet again, his better judgment was ignored (!) by everyone around him when such decisions were made.  Why would an intelligent man make himself look, in a very public way, so unbelievably stupid...just to "F" the organization that finally got tired of his ineptitude?

 

 

Thanks.  The Whaley question was never really a head scratcher.  This guy never should have been promoted to GM.

 

He was a significant part of the dysfunction.  Turns out he was just a yes man.

 

Pittsburgh never relied on Whaley to make a single decision.  He really didn't have such a "pedigree".

 

...interesting assessment.....either Colbert should have fired him or better yet, that's the reason why he let him go to Buffalo.....and not knowing his overall authority, your "yes man" theory may be 101% correct......but we have moved on...........do you see Beane as a "yes man" or is he in the "Command & Control Seat" with Pegula letting him do his job unfettered?....

[baskingridgebillsfan]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...interesting assessment.....either Colbert should have fired him or better yet, that's the reason why he let him go to Buffalo.....and not knowing his overall authority, your "yes man" theory may be 101% correct......but we have moved on...........do you see Beane as a "yes man" or is he in the "Command & Control Seat" with Pegula letting him do his job unfettered?....

that is the million question.  After year 2 and if things and if things are not going as well as expect will they let him March ?

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No, it really wasn't.  This was more of the same from a guy who pumps up his bad decisions...until they crash and burn.  Then he sits there and tries to convince some (you for instance) that yet again, his better judgment was ignored (!) by everyone around him when such decisions were made.  Why would an intelligent man make himself look, in a very public way, so unbelievably stupid...just to "F" the organization that finally got tired of his ineptitude?

 

 

Thanks.  The Whaley question was never really a head scratcher.  This guy never should have been promoted to GM.

 

He was a significant part of the dysfunction.  Turns out he was just a yes man.

 

Pittsburgh never relied on Whaley to make a single decision.  He really didn't have such a "pedigree".

It sure was.  If he was a yes man he would have said " yes I was in on the decision to fire Rex.  By the point he had enough and he threw Terry under the bus. I do believe Terry has ever right to do what he wants it is his team, I also agree Whaley didn't have to continue to own choices that were not his.   

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

that is the million question.  After year 2 and if things and if things are not going as well as expect will they let him March ?

It sure was.  If he was a yes man he would have said " yes I was in on the decision to fire Rex.  By the point he had enough and he threw Terry under the bus. I do believe Terry has ever right to do what he wants it is his team, I also agree Whaley didn't have to continue to own choices that were not his.   

 

 

 

....doubt post year 2 is "Judgment Day"......look at the Steelers model as in Consistency 101.......Cobert has been GM since 2000.....THREE HC's in the last 48 years....non-meddlesome owners who hire football people to do their jobs unfettered....RESULT?....SIX Lombardis....hell, I'd settle for JUST ONE before I die....Pats are dominant but I don't think they show the same model of consistency over the long haul other than Belichick as HC (and of course Brady).....

Edited December 3, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...interesting assessment.....either Colbert should have fired him or better yet, that's the reason why he let him go to Buffalo.....and not knowing his overall authority, your "yes man" theory may be 101% correct......but we have moved on...........do you see Beane as a "yes man" or is he in the "Command & Control Seat" with Pegula letting him do his job unfettered?....

 

I think Pegula ia desperate to find someone who can help him own a successful NFL team.  I'm sure he knows he has no idea how to do it so I'm guessing he relies on Beane.

 

1 hour ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

that is the million question.  After year 2 and if things and if things are not going as well as expect will they let him March ?

It sure was.  If he was a yes man he would have said " yes I was in on the decision to fire Rex.  By the point he had enough and he threw Terry under the bus. I do believe Terry has ever right to do what he wants it is his team, I also agree Whaley didn't have to continue to own choices that were not his.   

 

You have it exactly backwards.  Pegula relied on Whaley to help him with the coaching selection.   Do you really think that Pegula, in his first and most important decision as owner would go completely against his GMs recommendation?  Why on earth would he ever do that?

 

He knew Rex was on the hot seat (who didn't??) yet he lied and said otherwise.  Pegula fired Whaley because he was tired of his uselessness and the fact that Whaley was clearly not a stand up guy and could not be trusted.

 

Whaley was a fraud.  Forget EJ and Rex, his signature draft move was wildly overpaying (in picks) for Sammy Watkins.  He was convinced that Watkins value was so far beyond that of Odell Beckham, Mike Evans, or Benjamin---who the Bills got for almost nothing (lol) after getting rid of tenderfoot Sammy.

 

Pegula doesn't suffer fools well, I bet.  He dumped Whaley as soon as it was convenient to do so.  I'm sure he wanted to can him sooner but his new football people probably told him to wIT UNTIL AFTER THE DRAFT.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Lol there’s no debate NO

[GunnerBill]

Good? No. Bad? No. 

 

I think he was average and the best we had for some time.