BuffaloBillyG Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 1 hour ago, BuffaloRush said: In my opinion, one of the most interesting tenures in Bills history is that of Doug Whaley's brief run as GM. Bills fans have two reactions to him - they either love him or hate him. It's been like this way for quite some time. I remember walking out the stadium toward the end of last season after the Miami loss and we were grumbling about how Rex Ryan needed to be fired. I said Whaley should be fired too and it really spawned a heated debate. So in your estimation was Doug Whaley a good general manager. Yes he's fired but there's many who still feel he got a raw deal. Here's a few things to consider: Positives: - Very good at signing "bargain basement" free agents in offseason who contributed to the team (Zack Brown, Jordan Mills, Chris Hogan) - Good at signing street free agents - Able to re-sign several players to long term deals to stay in Buffalo (Hughes, Cordy, Marcel) - Found players to fit in coaches scheme - Wanted to win NOW Negatives - A very questionable draft record (especially in Rounds 1 and 2) - Over spending for Sammy Watkins/doubling down on EJ Manual - Drafting "damaged good" high in the draft (Lawson, Kuoundjio etc) - Reckless with salary cap - Neglected QB position for years - Seemingly had problems with coaches (Rex and Marrone) - Took chances on guys with "character issues" My take - I think that Doug did try very hard to build a winning football the best way that he could. In the end though, I feel that he was a bad General Manager and was happy to see the Bills move on from him. Overall, I feel that his strength is with Pro Personnel and not as a GM. We all have our thoughts - what's your take on DW? I don't think he was a bad GM. I just can't say he was a good GM. Maybe an "ok-ish" GM. In what I would select as his best 2 moves he got Hughes for Shepherd and McCoy for Kiko. Not sure how the deal with the Colts came about...but I remember reading how the deal with the Eagles fell in his lap. Also, not sure if it was him or Rex but whoever it was that took a chance on Incognito...great move. Here was a guy that was as big of a controversial player as Colin Kapernick and it paid off. I think what I will remember most about him was him going rogue on Jackson. Not that it wasn't the right move...it was...just classless to treat a guy that we'll respected that way.
Real McClappy Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) Whaley will go down as the GM that was never actually was a GM due to rookie ownership play. He never got a fair shake to get his own coaching staff in place, he was a straight up puppet that could scout talent very well. 3 seasons = a 24-24 record under his watch, which is actually really not that bad.. I really feel with a half way decent HC and QB of his choosing we'd have great things right now. He was forced by Nix to draft a QB = FAILURE Past is the past now. Let's see what Beane can do, fingers crossed. Edited December 2, 2017 by Real McCoy
Big C Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 26 minutes ago, BuffaloRush said: I think you are glossing over Doug's draft record - it leaves a lot to be desired Insofar as it lacked a real home run selection. The EJ pick was the wrong one but the need was too great. Sammy never lived up to the hype. Put those together and you're not looking so hot, but the players he selected have mostly gone on to be productive players, if unspectacular. But the lack of unity between him, Marrone and Rex really never set the team up to succeed and that's why he had to go. We now have a coach and GM on the exact same page and we build from there.
Bing Bong Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 We had our best roster on paper (2015) since I've been watching the team. It's hard to know what was Nix or Whaley to get there, but Levy and Donahoe never really improved the roster. 5 hours ago, Big C said: Insofar as it lacked a real home run selection. The EJ pick was the wrong one but the need was too great. Sammy never lived up to the hype. Put those together and you're not looking so hot, but the players he selected have mostly gone on to be productive players, if unspectacular. But the lack of unity between him, Marrone and Rex really never set the team up to succeed and that's why he had to go. We now have a coach and GM on the exact same page and we build from there. I don't see why GMs and coaches shouldn't be a package deal. Though to play devil's advocate, you need to be prepared to handle when one half is worse for the team than the other.
nucci Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 I would have liked him to have been allowed to pick his own coach. That would have shown us a bit more if he was a successful GM or not. Rex Ryan was hired and destroyed a top defense he helped assemble
Captain_Quint Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 He had to see players perform at the NFL level before he could really evaluate them, which was good for signing free agents. But a GM has to be able to evaluate college talent better than what he did. He also lacked long-term vision, which explains his troubles with the cap. Prickly personality with the coaches and media. Not privy to important decisions. Just not a good GM. 1
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 Doug Whaley is the Shaq Lawson of GM's. 1 1
Dr. K Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Gugny said: He was a very good GM who was instrumental in building a top 3 defense that was DESTROYED when our meddling new owners decided to cherry pick Rex Ryan as their new, shiny toy. His death knell was sticking with EJ Manuel too long. MOST GMs make bad QB picks. The good ones know when to admit they !@#$ed up, then move on. He didn't do that and that's what will define him. But I think he is one of the best GMs the Bills have ever had. Second to Donahoe. And no ... I'm not forgetting Polian. !@#$ his lucky ass. This is my view, too. The true test of Whaley as a GM would have come if he had been able to choose his own coach.
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 Doug Whaley was not instrumental in building a top defense.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 7 hours ago, Gugny said: No. It doesn't. His draft picks fit the coaching staff that he helped hire. What happened to that coaching staff - and what they were replaced with - was not on Doug Whaley. It was on the 3/4 dead previous owner and the !@#$ new owners who undermined him and hired the Ryan Circus. I take it you don't like the pegulas. so he was successful but the owner(s) !@#$ed him over?
TSOL Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 If you're looking for linebackers, Doug Whaley is your guy. I could forgive him for EJ, but Doug's crowning achievement, to me, will always be the Sammy Watkins trade. So no, he was not a good GM.
bmur66 Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 Whaley seemed to have one hand tied behind his back when it came to head coach selection and who knows what else. Kinda like a Junior GM. He made some good free agency moves and some questionable low round draft choices. What I particularly didn't like was getting cute with the draft. Almost like trying to prove that the Bills were smarter than everyone else. Other than that who knows what really goes on behind the scene?
ALF Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 I wish Whaley could have got along with Saint Doug like trusting him that EJ was not a starter. If Marrone stayed then no Ryan disaster and Schwartz would be here also.
nucci Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 31 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: I take it you don't like the pegulas. so he was successful but the owner(s) !@#$ed him over? Chose to hire Ryan and I don't think Whaley wanted him. Not really related but I think the Pegula's are nice people but terrible owners
simool Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 Compared to Matt Millen or Marv Levy, yes. I would say he was a good GM. He an above average to great pro personnel guy. Don't let him spend the money or make the picks.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 1 hour ago, jmc12290 said: Doug Whaley is the Shaq Lawson of GM's. The pornmeister was a good talent evaluator for the most part, he had other issues.
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, horned dogs said: The pornmeister was a good talent evaluator for the most part, he had other issues. Folks like to say this but it's not really true. He sure as hell didn't evaluate the "talent" of Shaq, Ragland, Adolphus, Kujo etc etc etc very well at all. Doug Whaley never drafted a player selected to a Pro Bowl. He went 0 fer. In 4 drafts. That's terrible.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, ALF said: I wish Whaley could have got along with Saint Doug like trusting him that EJ was not a starter. If Marrone stayed then no Ryan disaster and Schwartz would be here also. ...the once supportive tandem of Whaley and Brandon turned on Saint Doug because of his militaristic style which is exactly what he proposed during interview process (culture change)......he wanted them present at EVERY staff meeting and they grew tired of it.....so when the Big Dawgs turn on you, he took the money and ran versus a constant up hill battle even though Pegula DID offer him a 4 year, $19.6 million dollar extension...... Edited December 2, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy 1
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 32 minutes ago, nucci said: Chose to hire Ryan and I don't think Whaley wanted him. Not really related but I think the Pegula's are nice people but terrible owners likely so. I wondered why they wouldn't of brought in a successful football operations guy, like a tom coughlin?
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