Kirby Jackson Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Just now, JohnC said: When you are wrong it has a cascading effect. Marrone was a tiresome act one quickly wearies of. He was right and wasn't going to tolerate the albatross. EJ was a fourth round prospect who was drafted in the first round. It was a bad decision that had a damaging repercussion on him to the extent that it was a contributor to his failure at the job. We don’t disagree on this. Doubling down on EJ wasn’t wise as he wasn’t the guy. At the same time I get why you’d try to get your 1st round QB a young star receiver. Watkins was an ultra-elite prospect. It ended up not working out but at the time the logic was there. Just now, Romie said: He did some stupid ****, but he put enough talent together for a playoff run, Rex couldn't coach. Just my opinion. This is really well said. You kind of sum up my feelings. Rex was a complete disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: And we've certainly seen how good the Doug Whaley defense of Hughes, Brown, Shaq, Ragland, Adolphus truly was. Hughes is a solid pass rusher, Brown is an average MLB; not sure what your issues are with them. Other than Jerry's temper and dumb penalties at times. Shaq ans Ragland were guys Rex wanted. They fit his 3-4 system. Shaq holds an edge and is solid vs the run; we'll see if he stays or not. Washington is a rotational DT, we do need an upgrade here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: We don’t disagree on this. Doubling down on EJ wasn’t wise as he wasn’t the guy. At the same time I get why you’d try to get your 1st round QB a young star receiver. Watkins was an ultra-elite prospect. It ended up not working out but at the time the logic was there. There was a context to Watkins in that draft year. It was a year in which there were a number of high quality receiver prospects. If the Bills were more of a finished product then the decision was a little more reasonable but still risky because of the cost. In hindsight it is easy to be a critic. The compounding mistake and the real mistake in the Watkins selection is that the qb position was inadequately addressed. You can make plenty of mistakes and have them not prove so damaging if you have a franchise qb. That is where more attention and energy should have been directed. As you well know I am a supporter of McDermott's apparent roster building plan. However, if he doesn't address the qb issue in this next draft then I'm going to become a scathing critic. The Bills haven't had a franchise qb for nearly a quarter century. That's the real issue that we are dancing around when discussing Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Hughes is a solid pass rusher, Brown is an average MLB; not sure what your issues are with them. Other than Jerry's temper and dumb penalties at times. Shaq ans Ragland were guys Rex wanted. They fit his 3-4 system. Shaq holds an edge and is solid vs the run; we'll see if he stays or not. Washington is a rotational DT, we do need an upgrade here. The issue is the defense sucked once we got Whale's guys on the roster. You could make a better argument that he destroyed a defense rather than built one. Edited December 2, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, JohnC said: There was a context to Watkins in that draft year. It was a year in which there were a number of high quality receiver prospects. If the Bills were more of a finished product then the decision was a little more reasonable but still risky because of the cost. In hindsight it is easy to be a critic. The compounding mistake and the real mistake in the Watkins selection is that the qb position was inadequately addressed. You can make plenty of mistakes and have them not prove so damaging if you have a franchise qb. That is where more attention and energy should have been directed. As you well know I am a supporter of McDermott's apparent roster building plan. However, if he doesn't address the qb issue in this next draft then I'm going to become a scathing critic. The Bills haven't had a franchise qb for nearly a quarter century. That's the real issue that we are dancing around when discussing Watkins. Yep, getting the QB wrong is why it ultimately failed. If EJ developed like Goff or Wentz it would have worked out great. It was risky to double down after a so-so rookie year. There were a lot of good receivers in that draft but none was Watkins entering the draft. He was the best WR prospect since Green and Julio who he graded out like. It didn’t work out and we use a lot of hindsight to say “they could have sat there and taken Beckham.” If you dig through this message board prior to that draft a lot of people HATED the idea of Beckham. No one would admit that now but that’s hindsight. They would have taken Ebron anyways if they couldn’t move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Is he employed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: The issue is the defense sucked once we got Whale's guys on the roster. I think Jim Schwartz would disagree with this. 9 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You could make a better argument that he destroyed a defense rather than built one. No, Rex's defensive system destroyed the defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 If i owned a team, i would highly debate if i would even let Whaley run the fry-o-lator in the concession stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Seemed at least average at talent-acquisition, but never had a good coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I think Jim Schwartz would disagree with this. No, Rex's defensive system destroyed the defense. No he wouldn't. Jim Schwartz has Nix to thank for 2014. Whaley was a footnote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Romes Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 He was a fine GM. He took a few big swings and misses but he had reasons for doing so. If one of his big swings panned out he would still be in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: No he wouldn't. Jim Schwartz has Nix to thank for 2014. Whaley was a footnote. Whaley built our great defense just like Tyrod led a top 10 offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: No he wouldn't. Jim Schwartz has Nix to thank for 2014. Whaley was a footnote. I think it's a little of both at the time. There were Nix guys (Dareus, Gilmore, Mario, plus others) and Whaley guys (P Brown, Bradham, Hughes, Alonso, Spikes, and others.) Whaley was a little more than a footnote; at least try and be fair even though it is clear you dislike Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I think it's a little of both at the time. There were Nix guys (Dareus, Gilmore, Mario, plus others) and Whaley guys (P Brown, Bradham, Hughes, Alonso, Spikes, and others.) Whaley was a little more than a footnote; at least try and be fair even though it is clear you dislike Whaley. Nix was a !@#$ing moron. While Whaley was under Nix, the picks were Whaley picks, in my opinion. I totally agree; he was far from a "footnote." But most Bills fans will say the good picks were Nix's and the bad ones were Whaley's. It's just how this fanbase (generally speaking) rolls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I think it's a little of both at the time. There were Nix guys (Dareus, Gilmore, Mario, plus others) and Whaley guys (P Brown, Bradham, Hughes, Alonso, Spikes, and others.) Whaley was a little more than a footnote; at least try and be fair even though it is clear you dislike Whaley. No. It's not. Brown and Spikes weren't as important as All-Pros Dareus and Mario. I'm sorry. The talent brought on by Nix was and is way way way better. Alonso didn't even play in 2014! Bradham was drafted in 2012! Are you trolling me? 5 minutes ago, Gugny said: Nix was a !@#$ing moron. While Whaley was under Nix, the picks were Whaley picks, in my opinion. I totally agree; he was far from a "footnote." But most Bills fans will say the good picks were Nix's and the bad ones were Whaley's. It's just how this fanbase (generally speaking) rolls. Most Bills fans will say the players drafted when Nix was the GM were Nix's and the players drafted when Whaley was the GM were Whaley's. Sad, but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadonkadonk Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Can anyone find another example of a GM that was not allowed to pick his HC? Whaley would still be GM with an offensive minded HC and Schwartz as DC with one or two playoff appearances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 Doug was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: No. It's not. Brown and Spikes weren't as important as All-Pros Dareus and Mario. I'm sorry. The talent brought on by Nix was and is way way way better. Alonso didn't even play in 2014! Bradham was drafted in 2012! Are you trolling me? No, not trolling. Went back and looked, you're right about Alonso, he was injured. Bradham was drafted in 2012. Whaley was director of Pro Personnel at that time and an underling to Nix. While Nix brought in talent, so did Whaley. Whether Nix's talent is better than Whaley's talent, or not, is a matter of opinion. Nix had his share of screw-ups - remember the 'phone conversation' he supposedly had with the Buc's GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: No, not trolling. Went back and looked, you're right about Alonso, he was injured. Bradham was drafted in 2012. Whaley was director of Pro Personnel at that time and an underling to Nix. While Nix brought in talent, so did Whaley. Whether Nix's talent is better than Whaley's talent, or not, is a matter of opinion. Nix had his share of screw-ups - remember the 'phone conversation' he supposedly had with the Buc's GM? Sure, but mine is right. Line up the 2014 defense Nix additions versus the Whaley additions and every GM in the NFL takes the Nix guys. I don't believe that debateable. You're welcome to disagree, but you'd be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLandsMeanie Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 24 minutes ago, Gugny said: Nix was a !@#$ing moron. While Whaley was under Nix, the picks were Whaley picks, in my opinion. I totally agree; he was far from a "footnote." But most Bills fans will say the good picks were Nix's and the bad ones were Whaley's. It's just how this fanbase (generally speaking) rolls. You are just making this up, aren't you? When Nix was GM, it stands to reason he was responsible for the picks, because he was. It was his job. You need to back it up with something besides just saying it if I am going to believe it. Until then, the picks and trades made under Nix, were Nix's. And the picks and trades made under Whaley, were Whaley's. That is the only sensible way to think about it without convincing information otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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