Would you be against the Bills bringing in Eli AND drafting a QB in the first round?

[SoTier]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

EJ wouldn't have been so bad if the Bills tried to get another QB after him.  They let EJ shackle them for 4 years (and counting).  THAT'S the worst thing about the EJ pick.

 

That's because teams don't go out and dump their first round QBs before the end of their initial contracts unless they are horrendous and obvious busts (ala Ja'Marcus Russell).  They give them four years to prove themselves.  It's why Bortles is Jax's QB despite his poor play.  Moreover, if you draft another QB while you're trying to figure out if your earlier pick is worth keeping, that new kid is wasted sitting on the bench and playing for the scout team for at least a year.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

That's because teams don't go out and dump their first round QBs before the end of their initial contracts unless they are horrendous and obvious busts (ala Ja'Marcus Russell).  They give them four years to prove themselves.  It's why Bortles is Jax's QB despite his poor play.  Moreover, if you draft another QB while you're trying to figure out if your earlier pick is worth keeping, that new kid is wasted sitting on the bench and playing for the scout team for at least a year.

This is what half of the people want for a rookie QB.  Who cares if he rides the pine?

 

I don't care about not cutting EJ.  But it was clear he was toast after 2014 and it's now 2017 almost 2018 and we still haven't drafted a QB high and that's a HUGE problem.

Edited December 1, 2017 by jmc12290

[MC Hamburg]

I fully believe Eli needs a change of scenery. He didn't forget how to play football....but Jacksonville would make the most sense seems that Saint Doug isn't in love with Bortles. He would be a stop gap until they find a true #1 QB...just like Tyrod is doing for us. Would love Tyrod to be able to teach a new kid how to get out of a bad situation by scrambling, how not to throw interceptions, and handle the media with class. Although hopefully the next QB hopefully likes to sling the ball without fear. Good luck Bills...hope you chose the next great QB in the draft 

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by MC Hamburg

[Kirby Jackson]

26 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Tyrod never saw live bullets with Kubiak.

 

And good thing he didn't.  Might've cost him that Superbowl.

Maybe but you don’t find it even the least bit odd that the guy that saw him the most, offered him the most money in free agency? As an example you didn’t see Anthony Lynn banging down the door to sign EJ. It’s the EXACT same scenario. He was in desperate need of a backup and he traded for Cardale. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[SoTier]

3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

What?  

 

Eli was throwing a 2:1 TD:INT ratio.  No chance Geno pulls that off.  They won't win another game with him under center.  Which is exactly what the brass wants.

 

Not only can you read Mara and McAdoo's minds, you can foretell the future, too!     Can you share the winning LOTTO numbers please?

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Not only can you read Mara and McAdoo's minds, you can foretell the future, too!     Can you share the winning LOTTO numbers please?

You're actually arguing that Geno Smith would win more games as a QB that Eli Manning.  I didn't even think that was possible.

 

Reality is truly stranger than fiction.

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Maybe but you don’t find it even the least bit odd that the guy that saw him the most offered him the most money in free agency? As an example you didn’t see Anthony Lynn banging down the door to sign EJ. It’s the EXACT same scenario. He was in desperate need of a backup and he traded for Cardale. 

It's telling that the QB's you choose to compare TT to are EeeeeeeeeeJJJJJjjjjj and Cardale.  Young star QB's no doubt.  

Edited December 1, 2017 by jmc12290

[Big Turk]

44 minutes ago, Putin said:

The jets were thinking the same about Fitzpatrick , 

Except Fitzpatrick never really did what Keenum is doing

[dlonce]

3 hours ago, section122 said:

 

Dammit Hokie I wanted to post that lol.  I pulled the numbers the other day and posted them.  They are relevant in this thread as well.

 

Some fun Eli facts:
 
Did you know he has a 110-100 record? 
Did you know he has 3 years of 20+ ints?
Did you know he has never completed more than 63.1% of his passes in a season? and a career 59.8%?
Did you know he has only thrown for more than 7 ypa 6 out of 14 years starting?
Did you know he has a career qb rating of 83.8 which is the same as Joe Flacco?
Did you know he has thrown 222 ints in 210 career starts.  More than 1 a game
Did you know he has thrown 334 tds in 210 career starts.  About 1.5 per game.  
 
So the average Eli game is 241.3 yards a game combined, 1.5 tds and 1 ints.  For comparison Tyrod goes for 238.3 combined, 1.55 tds and .23 ints a game.  Somehow out of these numbers Tyrod is garbage and a backup qb at best and Eli is a HOFer.

 

There are other intangibles to be considered. 

Heres a good stat.

Game winning drives:

Eli Manning

40

2004-2017

 

Tied for 8th all time

 

Tyrod Taylor

5

2011-2017

 

Tied for 207th with 28 other scrubs.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/gwd_career.htm

 

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by dlonce

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

You're actually arguing that Geno Smith would win more games as a QB that Eli Manning.  I didn't even think that was possible.

 

Reality is truly stranger than fiction.

It's telling that the QB's you choose to compare TT to are EeeeeeeeeeJJJJJjjjjj and Cardale.  Young star QB's no doubt.  

Maybe I didn’t say it cleary. When Kubiak went to Denver he offered Tyrod Taylor more money than any other team did. He certainly wanted him on his team. He knew him well. Tyrod bet on himself, rightfully so, and benefitted from it.

 

Lynn in Buffalo was like Kubiak in Baltimore. He got a HC job with a veteran QB but no one behind him. That guy could be done at any moment. He had a former 1st round QB that he worked with, entering free agency, making $800K and still had no interest. I’m not comparing the two players. What I’m saying is that actions show you how people feel about a player. You said (more or less) “Kubiak might not have gotten the Denver job if Tyrod played.” He certainly didn’t feel that way or he wouldn’t have offered him more than any other team. His actions say that he had a lot of confidence in him.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Maybe I didn’t say it cleary. When Kubiak went to Denver he offered Tyrod Taylor more money than any other team did. He certainly wanted him on his team. He knew him well. Tyrod bet on himself, rightfully so, and benefitted from it.

 

Lynn in Buffalo was like Kubiak in Baltimore. He got a HC job with a veteran QB but no one behind him. That guy could be done at any moment. He had a former 1st round QB that he worked with, entering free agency, making $800K and still had no interest. I’m not comparing the two players. What I’m saying is that actions show you how people feel about a player. You said (more or less) “Kubiak might not have gotten the Denver job if Tyrod played.” He certainly didn’t feel that way or he wouldn’t have offered him more than any other team. His actions say that he had a lot of confidence in him.

Nooooo, Kubiak might not have won a Superbowl in Denver if Tyrod was on that team.  That would've been sad.

 

Todd Downing was EJ's QB coach and that was the team that signed him.  A vote of confidence, no doubt.  The EJ Rebirth In Vegas, coming in 2018.

Edited December 1, 2017 by jmc12290

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Nooooo, Kubiak might not have won a Superbowl in Denver if Tyrod was on that team.  That would've been sad.

 

Todd Dowling was EJ's QB coach and that was the team that signed him.  A vote of confidence, no doubt.  The EJ Rebirth In Vegas, coming in 2018.

Touché 

 

I disagree with the first part though. Tyrod might have kept that job!! Peyton was terrible before he got hurt. Some people thought that Brock should have kept the job. He was largely garbage too. Peyton might be the player that I respect most in my time watching football but he was painful in his last year. 

[SoTier]

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

This is what half of the people want for a rookie QB.  Who cares if he rides the pine?

 

I don't care about not cutting EJ.  But it was clear he was toast after 2014 and it's now 2017 almost 2018 and we still haven't drafted a QB high and that's a HUGE problem.

 

Hey, don't whine to me that the brilliant Bills chose to let their Pro Bowl DB Gilmore walk in FA and had to draft a DB in order to fill the hole left by that move.  That's been a pattern that the Bills have followed since the salary cap was instituted: they either let the good/great DBs, WRs, RBs that they've developed walk in FA or trade them for not all that much and then use the draft to fill the holes created by the departure of said DBs, WRs & RBS.  Every time I've pointed out that the Bills did that exact same thing in 2017 despite having a "new" regime, including GM and scouts, I've been attacked by certain true believers who claim everything is all fixed now.  Well, it ain't.  The new regime is doing the same that the old regimes have done.

 

So, be happy spinning fantasies about the yet unnamed QB the Bills will draft in 2018, maybe even with that first rounder from the Chiefs -- and don't cry in your beer that the Bills could have had Patrick Mahomes or DeShaun Watson instead of Nathan Peterman or that fantastic unnamed QB to be named later.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

Hey, don't whine to me that the brilliant Bills chose to let their Pro Bowl DB Gilmore walk in FA and had to draft a DB in order to fill the hole left by that move.  That's been a pattern that the Bills have followed since the salary cap was instituted: they either let the good/great DBs, WRs, RBs that they've developed walk in FA or trade them for not all that much and then use the draft to fill the holes created by the departure of said DBs, WRs & RBS.  Every time I've pointed out that the Bills did that exact same thing in 2017 despite having a "new" regime, including GM and scouts, I've been attacked by certain true believers who claim everything is all fixed now.  Well, it ain't.  The new regime is doing the same that the old regimes have done.

 

So, be happy spinning fantasies about the yet unnamed QB the Bills will draft in 2018, maybe even with that first rounder from the Chiefs -- and don't cry in your beer that the Bills could have had Patrick Mahomes or DeShaun Watson instead of Nathan Peterman or that fantastic unnamed QB to be named later.

I was probably the second most vocal poster on this board in favor of drafting Watson.  I was begging for it.  You're preaching to the choir my man.

 

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Touché 

 

I disagree with the first part though. Tyrod might have kept that job!! Peyton was terrible before he got hurt. Some people thought that Brock should have kept the job. He was largely garbage too. Peyton might be the player that I respect most in my time watching football but he was painful in his last year. 

Yeah he might've.  Hard to say.  I just know the way it worked out, and that was with a ring.  I doubt Kubiak has any regrets about not getting TT on board.

 

Obviously there's a bit of a difference between Downing and Kubiak and what was offered to EJ and TT.  But I think a lot of it is familiarity, not necessarily ability.  We didn't bring in guys like Kaelin Clay and Tolbert because we knew how secretly good they were (at least I hope not.)  We brought them in because the coaches knew them and were familiar with them.  And you see that across the league constantly.  

[dlonce]

20 minutes ago, MC Hamburg said:

I fully believe Eli needs a change of scenery. He didn't forget how to play football....but Jacksonville would make the most sense seems that Saint Doug isn't in love with Bortles. He would be a stop gap until they find a true #1 QB...just like Tyrod is doing for us. Would love Tyrod to be able to teach a new kid how to get out of a bad situation by scrambling, how not to throw interceptions, and handle the media with class. Although hopefully the next QB hopefully likes to sling the ball without fear. Good luck Bills...hope you chose the next great QB in the draft 

 

 

 

 

Scrambling is a natural instinct. There’s no way you teach someone that.

 

Not throwing interceptions is an easy one,especially in Tyrod case. You only throw to wide open players,and if your initial read is covered within 5 yards then you don’t throw it and run.

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Nooooo, Kubiak might not have won a Superbowl in Denver if Tyrod was on that team. 

Considering Denver wanted Taylor as a backup, I'd say it wouldn't have mattered.

[Kirby Jackson]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

I was probably the second most vocal poster on this board in favor of drafting Watson.  I was begging for it.  You're preaching to the choir my man.

 

Yeah he might've.  Hard to say.  I just know the way it worked out, and that was with a ring.  I doubt Kubiak has any regrets about not getting TT on board.

 

Obviously there's a bit of a difference between Downing and Kubiak and what was offered to EJ and TT.  But I think a lot of it is familiarity, not necessarily ability.  We didn't bring in guys like Kaelin Clay and Tolbert because we knew how secretly good they were (at least I hope not.)  We brought them in because the coaches knew them and were familiar with them.  And you see that across the league constantly.  

You make a great point there. We brought in freakin’ TJ Yates!! It really is interesting that you can be awful but if someone is familiar with you, you have a job. These guys clearly love the guys that they had in Carolina. Why is Joe Webb in the NFL? I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see more; Lotulelei is my guess. 

[BringBackOrton]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You make a great point there. We brought in freakin’ TJ Yates!! It really is interesting that you can be awful but if someone is familiar with you, you have a job. These guys clearly love the guys that they had in Carolina. Why is Joe Webb in the NFL? I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see more; Lotulelei is my guess. 

It's the 21st century dude.  Every team needs a third string QB who plays special teams.

[3rdand12]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I have no interest in Eli and his price tag. 

which is ?

[Kirby Jackson]

4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

which is ?

I’d have to think at minimum $15M. The Bills will have the space but it just feels like it could be used better elsewhere.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Eli has had some very good seasons that Taylor could only dream to have. Not only that but his 2014, 2015 and 2016 season are treading upwards. If Eli has a year like 2015 all we need is a solid defense and we're in the playoffs and can put SB and Bills in the same sentence again. 

 

Plus Eli seems to be kryptonite to Brady and Belicheat.