Social Security

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

How's the sense of humor, Gallagher?

 

You made your stance on AIDS clear: AIDS is a "blessing," and to babies born with AIDS, "life's a B word."

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And I'll stand by that view. Why? I'm a firm believer that life is a cold, hard thing.

 

What's to say that if AIDS was cured today that these same people wouldn't STARVE to death due to over-population? One way or another, people in sub-saharan countries are going to die by the thousands daily. Why? Because rather than taking matters into their own hands, they expect US to help. Cut them off, and they'll either die or figure it all out.

 

Note: not ALL poor countries are needy like that. See the Asian Tigers for an example. They did what it took to modernize and improve the lives of their own people. Why can't African nations do this?

 

Can you explain why, since you're so incredibly enlightened?

[John Adams]

And I'll stand by that view. Why? I'm a firm believer that life is a cold, hard thing.

 

What's to say that if AIDS was cured today that these same people wouldn't STARVE to death due to over-population? One way or another, people in sub-saharan countries are going to die by the thousands daily. Why? Because rather than taking matters into their own hands, they expect US to help. Cut them off, and they'll either die or figure it all out.

 

Note: not ALL poor countries are needy like that. See the Asian Tigers for an example.  They did what it took to modernize and improve the lives of their own people. Why can't African nations do this?

 

Can you explain why, since you're so incredibly enlightened?

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Thank you for your recognition. At least you're making progress.

 

Point out where I said my tax dollars should be funding third world countries, their healthcare, or even their food supply. Also point out where I said that countries shouldn't fend for theirselves. I'll be waiting.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Thank you for your recognition. At least you're making progress.

 

Point out where I said my tax dollars should be funding third world countries, their healthcare, or even their food supply. Also point out where I said that countries shouldn't fend for theirselves. I'll be waiting.

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Again, you're reading between the lines here. I know you wouldn't support funding third world countries. Well, except when it comes to AIDS, anyway.

 

[John Adams]

Again, you're reading between the lines here. I know you wouldn't support funding third world countries. Well, except when it comes to AIDS, anyway.

 

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Really? I support AIDS funding in third world countries? Boy, you are outdoing yourself in your ignorance.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Really? I support AIDS funding in third world countries? Boy, you are outdoing yourself in your ignorance.

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Ah, yes, my bad. I had you confused with Rubes.

 

You have my most sincere apologies for confusing your position with his.

[nobody]

I thought this was the SS thread. Guess I'll go to the aids thread to talk about SS.

[nobody]

I just stumbled on this proposal from another of the class-warfare based Republicans. It may be the most likely scenario yet. It creates a "donut hole" in social security where the people from 90K-300K get a break from SS taxes, but at 300K, people start paying on top of the 300K.

 

 

If that donut hole system makes you happy with pushing the ceiling up higher then good enough. If I were in office I'd support it.

 

 

 

 

That's beautiful. The >90K crowd would instantly be paying more... a LOT more. That seems fair. So a person who makes 150K would be paying almost double in SS taxes as they pay now. Good or bad for the economy? If you picked bad, you picked right.

 

This makes me ill. If they lower this social security boom only on the people who make more than 90K, I will be sick, but not suprised.

 

 

Do you want the govt to have a higher SS tax rate for people who make less than 90k? In 2000 the ceiling was 76k - it will continue to move up over time. I'm just suggesting that the govt bump the maximum earnings subject to SS taxes at a quicker pace.

[KD in CA]

Do you want the govt to have a higher SS tax rate for people who make less than 90k? 

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If they are the ones who will receive the benefit, than YES.

 

But before we raise taxes on anyone, how about taking some other common sense steps first like raising the retirement age to a level that reflects current demographics.

[JimBob2232]

If they are the ones who will receive the benefit, than YES.

 

But before we raise taxes on anyone, how about taking some other common sense steps first like raising the retirement age to a level that reflects current demographics.

 

Unfortunatly we have a problem with SS right now...this problem can be fixed in one of 3 ways (or a combination)

 

1) Decrease Benefits

2) Increase Taxes

3) Privatize

 

If we do this right, everyone will suffer a little, but the problem will be fixed. Do it wrong, nobody suffers today, but we prolong the agony making it worse on our kids.

 

If the only choices are to raise the 90k cap or cut benefits, raising the cap makes more sense. But that is not fair either., and only propetuates the class warfare we have seen for years in washington. PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY. I want my money to be mine. Its the ONLY fair system.

[John Adams]

Unfortunatly we have a problem with SS right now...this problem can be fixed in one of 3 ways (or a combination)

 

1) Decrease Benefits

2) Increase Taxes

3) Privatize

 

If we do this right, everyone will suffer a little, but the problem will be fixed.  Do it wrong, nobody suffers today, but we prolong the agony making it worse on our kids.

 

If the only choices are to raise the 90k cap or cut benefits, raising the cap makes more sense.  But that is not fair either., and only propetuates the class warfare we have seen for years in washington.  PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY.  I want my money to be mine.  Its the ONLY fair system.

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And if the market tanks? Then what?

[JimBob2232]

And if the market tanks? Then what?

 

I dont know who said anything about putting these funds into the stock market, but just to humor you....

 

Currently 15 percent of your money goes into the social secuity fund. If you make 50k a year, that is $7,500 PER YEAR that is contributed to the fund because you work. If you work at the same salary for 30 years, that is $225,000 in your private account when you retire assuming ZERO real rate of return.

 

Assuming that that 225k gets put into a money market account, and you never touch the principle, and can get a modest 5% interest rate on some sort of safe investment (CD, Ginnie Mae, Federal Notes, etc), that is more than 11K per year.

 

Note that this is ABOVE AND BEYOND any 401K, IRA or other retirement plans you may have. This is also assuming that for 30 years you did not make a penny on your investment.

 

Another way to look at this is the same way you look at matching funds from your employer. Lets say you have a 401K and contribute 5% of your salary into it. Lets also assume your employer matches the 5%. (This is the same as social security where you put in 7.5% and so does your employer). Even if the vehicle you chose to invest in goes down by 50%, you break even.

 

It is also important to note that any approved government investment vehicle will be one with very low risk. About the riskiest investment allowed will be a full market index fund, such as the one currently used by federal employees enrolled in a thrift savings plan. You will also be allowed to invest in even safer funds such as money market funds and CDs. You WILL NOT be able to put all your money in Enron or WorldCom or even General Electric or Exxon.

 

If these funds are good enough for every senator to be investing their pension in, it should be good enough for us.

 

The positives outweigh the negatives. At least this way you know exactly how much money you have and can budget accordingly.

[KD in CA]

I want my money to be mine.  Its the ONLY fair system.

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Me too. So please don't forget granting Americans the right to opt out of this ponzi scheme.

 

Let the friggin losers who need the government to run their lives and procure their pay increases use SS. I can fund my own retirement if the government stops stealing my money.

[nobody]

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

 

I guess we need to add a line: "On the other hand, screw them all. I want what's mine."

[Alaska Darin]

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I guess we need to add a line:  "On the other hand, screw them all.  I want what's mine."

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I guess the "yearning to breathe free" part kind of escapes you, huh?

[nobody]

I guess the "yearning to breathe free" part kind of escapes you, huh?

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"Yearning" doesn't mean "can afford to". And that line does not have to do with financial freedom.

[JimBob2232]

"Yearning" doesn't mean "can afford to". And that line does not have to do with financial freedom.

 

Your life, and where you are at today, is the sum of all the choices you have made along the way. I for one have no sympathy for someone who has no desire to help themselves. I only care when it begins to affect my pocket or my well being.

 

But to illustrate a point...these people are EXACTLY the people who need social security. These same irresponsible people who spend there entire life working at a burger king (or less classy establishment) are the same people who chose (in many cases) to drop out of high school. These are the same people who hang out in bus stops drinking beer out of plastic bags. These people were not responsible enough to do something with their lives to better themselves. For the betterment of society they need to have a private social security account to help pay their way after they retire. If left to their own devices, this money would be gone.

 

I agree you and I probably dont need social security. We can fend for ourselves. But how is the government supposed to decide who should and should not recieve social security? They cant. So we all do it. And with a privatized account, IT DOESNT MATTER!!! Because the money is yours. End of story.

[KD in CA]

"Yearning" doesn't mean "can afford to".  And that line does not have to do with financial freedom.

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It means "desiring the opportunity for" all the things that freedom can provide, including financial reward. Apparently you've forgotten that the key concept is opportunity. That is the only thing the huddled masses were guaranteed.

[GG]

"Yearning" doesn't mean "can afford to".  And that line does not have to do with financial freedom.

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What does the immigrant verse have to do with SS? Why was there a higher % of immigrant population during Emma Lazarus time, when there weren't any social safety nets?

 

Oh yeah, it's that opportunity thingy, isn't it?

[Alaska Darin]

What does the immigrant verse have to do with SS?  Why was there a higher % of immigrant population during Emma Lazarus time, when there weren't any social safety nets? 

 

Oh yeah, it's that opportunity thingy, isn't it?

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Spoken like, well, an immigrant.

[GG]

Spoken like, well, an immigrant. 

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I've met a few in my lifetime to form an opinion