Mat68 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 He is a boom or bust type prospect. If I missed out on Rosen than I would strongly consider Mayfiled. Maybe a move to around 10. Give up a fist next year and keep the majority of picks this year. There are plenty of options, hopefully they make the right choice. He is the most divisive prospect but I think he is more moxy than Manziel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, JM57 said: Yeah a little crotch grab and cockiness is a character issue. This is a team that, the one time they were good for a sustained period of time, had star players who were absolute party animals, and now we want a team of choir boys. He was arrested for public intoxication and resisting arrest 9 months ago.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 He is the taller version of Doug Flutie with a much better arm. If he is there and the Bills pass on him, I think they will regret it for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just say no to Air Raid QBs early in the draft, especially ones that are limited physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, JMF2006 said: I might have done the same thing if I were in his shoes. Never had you down as a crotch grabber JMF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 33 minutes ago, racecitybills said: Great college QB. Unfortunately he is Johnny Manziel without the booze problem. Yet. Get a bigger QB. Mason Rudolph I think Rudolph has more upside than Mayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blacklabel Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Bills757 said: I think Rudolph has more upside than Mayfield. I think Rudolph is exactly the type of QB McBeane wants. We've heard Beane describe his ideal QB as a big dude with the ability to hang in the pocket. Rudolph shows that but he also has inconsistencies as well. They all do. But they're gonna take one of these kids, they almost have to. I've been saying it in threads all over. I really hope this front office/coaching staff is flexible when it comes to how high they prioritize certain player traits. It's well understood that they want team-first, high character guys, guys who play for love of the game as opposed to getting paid, etc. But I wouldn't let those traits limit my decisions. If they have Player A and Player B on the big board and one guy is a naturally gifted athlete who would likely be a great player but has some character stuff and Player B is gonna be a solid but never spectacular player but he drives a bus of 50 grandmothers to church every Sunday... I sincerely hope they give consideration to taking the purely better player, not necessarily the better person with higher character traits. Plus, if McD wants to shape the culture to his liking, he should be confident that his locker room can be a positive influence on a player with a couple red flags. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, Bills757 said: I think Rudolph has more upside than Mayfield. I think there may be something to that but I am not big on "upside" drafting. Don't project too much on what you think they will be able to do in 4 years. That's how Greg Robinson gets picked 2nd overall despite having none of the requisite skills to play OT in the NFL beyond "he's massive". I do agree with those who think Rudolph is probably closer to what the Bills brass is looking for though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, blacklabel said: I think Rudolph is exactly the type of QB McBeane wants. We've heard Beane describe his ideal QB as a big dude with the ability to hang in the pocket. Rudolph shows that but he also has inconsistencies as well. They all do. But they're gonna take one of these kids, they almost have to. I've been saying it in threads all over. I really hope this front office/coaching staff is flexible when it comes to how high they prioritize certain player traits. It's well understood that they want team-first, high character guys, guys who play for love of the game as opposed to getting paid, etc. But I wouldn't let those traits limit my decisions. If they have Player A and Player B on the big board and one guy is a naturally gifted athlete who would likely be a great player but has some character stuff and Player B is gonna be a solid but never spectacular player but he drives a bus of 50 grandmothers to church every Sunday... I sincerely hope they give consideration to taking the purely better player, not necessarily the better person with higher character traits. Plus, if McD wants to shape the culture to his liking, he should be confident that his locker room can be a positive influence on a player with a couple red flags. Only McD and Beane know who they'd choose between two players. In the end, they'll choose the guy they think will give their team the best chance to win. There are risks involved, for sure, by choosing someone with character flaws (I'm talking in general...not about Mayfield).....it's the whole risk-reward type of thing. Case in point was Michael Vick. Andy Reid felt he could work with Vick and have success....Reid felt Vick deserved a second chance....and to some extent, it paid off on the field. Vick kept his nose clean, paid back all of his creditors and has been doing the right things even after his playing days. It's kinda like Shady said about Kaepernick......he's simply not good enough to counter balance his baggage. And he's right. I wouldn't pick a guy like Kaepernick for all of the distractions and the fact he's not good enough to overcome them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I think there may be something to that but I am not big on "upside" drafting. Don't project too much on what you think they will be able to do in 4 years. That's how Greg Robinson gets picked 2nd overall despite having none of the requisite skills to play OT in the NFL beyond "he's massive". I do agree with those who think Rudolph is probably closer to what the Bills brass is looking for though. I think Rudolph checks almost every box you look for in a franchise quarterback. In my mind his two biggest issues going into the draft are the offense he played in and the fact he really didnt play any decent defenses. Mayfield showed he could play well against a top ten passing defense when he got the win and put up great stats against Ohio State this year. I dont pretend to know which quarterback will be better in the NFL, so in my mind just go and get a highly rated guy and hope for the best. I would be more than fine with Rudolph, Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, or Sam Darnold. Just get one of those guys and lets go. Edited November 30, 2017 by thenorthremembers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills757 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 One thing to keep in mind, though, is the fact the Big12 simply doesn't play defense. It's across the board. it's not because the offense are extremely prolific....a lot simply has to do with the fact defenses in that conference blow. There are a total of two defense from the Big12 in the top 50 in total defense (TCU at 18 and Iowa State at 46). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, blacklabel said: I think Rudolph is exactly the type of QB McBeane wants. We've heard Beane describe his ideal QB as a big dude with the ability to hang in the pocket. Rudolph shows that but he also has inconsistencies as well. They all do. But they're gonna take one of these kids, they almost have to. I've been saying it in threads all over. I really hope this front office/coaching staff is flexible when it comes to how high they prioritize certain player traits. It's well understood that they want team-first, high character guys, guys who play for love of the game as opposed to getting paid, etc. But I wouldn't let those traits limit my decisions. If they have Player A and Player B on the big board and one guy is a naturally gifted athlete who would likely be a great player but has some character stuff and Player B is gonna be a solid but never spectacular player but he drives a bus of 50 grandmothers to church every Sunday... I sincerely hope they give consideration to taking the purely better player, not necessarily the better person with higher character traits. Plus, if McD wants to shape the culture to his liking, he should be confident that his locker room can be a positive influence on a player with a couple red flags. Rudolf has too weak of an arm to be a 1st round pick. IMO, as a prospect, he is a taller Peterman. McBeane strikes me more of the type that will not reach in round one for a middling prospect based on need, a la Manuel or Losman. They will shoot their shot trying to get one of the top 3 guys or will bow out of the QB game completely this draft. It wouldn't surprise me if they trade out of one of those 1sts this draft to try to pick up a 1st in next year's draft if they fail to get the trade up that they want. Taking a Mayfield or Rudolf or Falk in round 1 would be forcing it IMO, and I don't think these guys are going to force that decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: I think Rudolph checks almost every box you look for in a franchise quarterback. In my mind his two biggest issues going into the draft are the offense he played in and the fact he really didnt play any decent defenses. Mayfield showed he could play well against a top ten passing defense when he got the win and put up great stats against Ohio State this year. I dont pretend to know which quarterback will be better in the NFL, so in my mind just go and get a highly rated guy and hope for the best. I would be more than fine with Rudolph, Mayfield, Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, or Sam Darnold. Just get one of those guys and lets go. I like Rudolph I have a late 1st on him at the moment. Still lots of my process to do but as of today I'd be quite happy for us to select him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I like Rudolph I have a late 1st on him at the moment. Still lots of my process to do but as of today I'd be quite happy for us to select him. His arm is too weak for a pocket passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BrooklynBills said: His arm is too weak for a pocket passer. I don't agree. I don't think it is outstanding but it is adequate in my mind. And as people who have been here years will know I am not a great believer in arm strength being the most important factor. Edited November 30, 2017 by GunnerBill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 I think we are going to like Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Thorson as 1st round talents and in that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said: Josh Rosen please CBF Probably going first overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) If you put Mason Rudolph and Baker Mayfield together, you would have a top 5 QB prospect. Not so much. 4 minutes ago, Woodman19 said: I think we are going to like Rosen, Darnold, Allen and Thorson as 1st round talents and in that order. I think Allen has been the target since day 1. If they can get a shot at the other two top guys, it's gravy. Edited November 30, 2017 by BrooklynBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I think Rosen is the better pro prospect but that's just my opinion. I think Rosen LOOKS like the better pro prospect right now, but I think that Darnold IS the better pro prospect, if that makes sense: better size, better arm, better accuracy and arm strength while on the move when plays break down, and a slightly better release. This is not a critique of Rosen, who is also quite good at all of these things too. Bear in mind that USC is 19-3 in games that Darnold has started, and in the very first game he started - which SC lost 31-27 to Utah - he lit it up. He will throw the occasional pick, but he's 20. I think he's gonna be a monster pro. Check it out: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000877512/article/ask-5-whos-better-nfl-prospect-sam-darnold-or-josh-rosen. Bear in mind that I like Rosen. Edited November 30, 2017 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 minute ago, BrooklynBills said: If you put Mason Rudolph and Baker Mayfield together, you would have a top 5 QB prospect. Not so much. I think Allen has been the target since day 1. If they can get a shot at the other two top guys, it's gravy. Yeah, I put Jackson up there with Rosen but realistically Rosen and Jackson go 1-2 and then you likely need a top 5 pick for Darnold. Then you start getting into the the 10-15 range where we will likely be. I don't think we are going to blow all our picks for a QB when we have so many holes in a draft class that you can still get a solid QB prospect with the picks we will have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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