Apparently the offense is holding Tyrod back

[Wayne Arnold]

27 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And we've seen no proof that we are capable of long-term success.

 

This was a .500 team that was closer to the playoffs then a top draft pick.  This pie in the sky idea that we can get rid of all the valuable pieces for draft picks and be a powerhouse in 2-3 years is bunk.

 

Show me a team that has done it and been successful.

 

All the great teams have a history of being good.

 

I much rather would have placed my hope in a coaching staff cleaning up the mess much like the Rams have done, vs. the tear the house down to the studs and cross your fingers.

 

They were a within 2 games of the playoffs the last 3 years and that we attributed to bad coaching not the players. 

 

If it was the players, then why were the coaches fired/left......

 

Only 1 team wins the SB every year and the Bills haven't made the playoffs since 1999.

 

The Bills are 6-5, not 0-11. What are you babbling about?

 

Going into 2017, this team didn't have a terrible roster but definitely had a major cap issue. McDermott's and then Beane's goal was to relieve some of those cap problems by releasing or adjusting Taylor's contract and getting rid of the high-priced players that weren't playing up to the level of their contracts. At the same time, they could add high draft picks and attempt to break the playoff-less streak.

 

To use your Rams example, I doubt LAR had the same cap issues.

 

Beane and McDermott will likely continue the purging of high-priced players this offseason. Guys like Taylor, Glenn, McCoy and even Lawson could be gone.

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Beane and McDermott will likely continue the purging of high-priced players this offseason. Guys like Taylor, Glenn, McCoy and even Lawson could be gone.

Possibly on the first 2, but McCoy is the only RB we have under contract for 2018 and Lawson's still on his rookie deal.

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Possibly on the first 2, but McCoy is the only RB we have under contract for 2018 and Lawson's still on his rookie deal.

 

I'm hoping for trades.

 

They should probably keep Shady around for another season.

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And how much does the offensive schemes and blocking change as they have shotgun sequences anyways?  

 

You hand off to McCoy sometimes as opposed to passing, and instead of being under center he's in shotgun.

 

Seems easier for everyone and should have better success.

Shotgun vs under center is really night and day, in terms of defensive reactionary times. From shotgun the RB is taking the handoff at a standstill, which gives LBs a very clear view of their responsibilities and a lot more time to react WRT gap control. It also pretty much negates playaction (I know the shotgun playaction is still used sometimes but unless it's a zone read/RPO type deal it's mostly for show and doesn't disguise the play at all). Under center puts a lot more pressure on defenses due to the RB having a full head of steam at handoff which makes decision/reaction time much shorter, and also facilitates playaction much more effectively.

[BuffaloHokie13]

4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

I'm hoping for trades.

 

They should probably keep Shady around for another season.

Looking through our 2018 salary cap and free agents yesterday was actually kind of worrisome. Lots of departures everywhere except the OL (where I wish there were departures :lol:) 1 RB, 1 CB, 0 ILB, 1 DT. Safe to assume there will be a good amount of turnover yet again this offseason.

[Marty McFly]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

3 different OC and 2 different HC...

 

The difference is the last HC wanted Tyrod all the way back to when he was with the Jets, so he was invested. The new guys just want a reason to sell benching him for good.

 

1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

Why would a head coach come in and run the same offense and same defense as the last HC who was fired?  Clearly something isn't working if you get fired.  He traded away one weapon and Sammy was going into the final year of his contract most likely to leave in free agency like Woods did.  This regime brought in two young veterans who have had 1,000 yard seasons or close to it in the past to accompany the 2nd round rookie in Zay Jones who is gradually improving as the year goes on.  

 

The new blocking scheme is what they are going to run moving forward.  Don't switch to it next year so the young guys will have to learn yet another system.  

 

They have a winning record going into December. Does that sound like they are trying to lose as many games as possible?  

 

The coaching staff is gonna do things their way, just like all the other coaches in the NFL do.  This regime is less than a year in...

 

Youre wrong The last OC got a promotion to a HC in LA. Rex got fired for his defense and the cap to how far they were as a team. With Whaleys "were all in" campaign

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Looking through our 2018 salary cap and free agents yesterday was actually kind of worrisome. Lots of departures everywhere except the OL (where I wish there were departures :lol:) 1 RB, 1 CB, 0 ILB, 1 DT. Safe to assume there will be a good amount of turnover yet again this offseason.

 

KWill, PBrown, Matthews, Gaines and LJohnson being the only significant ones. They can't be re-signed?

[The Now Moment]

2 minutes ago, Marty McFly said:

 

 

Youre wrong The last OC got a promotion to a HC in LA. Rex got fired for his defense and the cap to how far they were as a team. With Whaleys "were all in" campaign

Why would they keep a QB they inherited from a failed regime that relied mostly on their top running game to put up points?  And Lynn technically was fired too.  Otherwise he'd be here

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

KWill, PBrown, Matthews, Gaines and LJohnson being the only significant ones. They can't be re-signed?

Depends how much they want and how many more holes we create. Jettisoning Tyrod saves about what Gaines will cost, and likely means likely signing a Vet QB (~$5M). Kyle's probably another 7ish. That leaves ~$16M  for Preston (or another starting ILB), Matthews (or another #2/Slot WR), Johnson (or another nickel CB), and 7 others. And that's if we don't get into tinkering with the OL.

[Billsfan1972]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Philly just did it haha. They were halfway decent the entire time as well and traded up for their QB.  Now they are sitting at 10 wins before decemeber...

 

Of course their is no proof but if you don't try to find a young QB for the long term...you aren't even giving yourself a chance.  Again, I am excited that we are actually daring to be better than...if twenty things happen in the last 3 weeks of the season we will be in...

 

 

You mean having a decent team under a so so coach, and then trading up.....

 

I said that too.  Get a high draft pick qb and trade picks to get there if need be.  But don't sacrifice a shot at the playoffs. 

[The Now Moment]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

You mean having a decent team under a so so coach, and then trading up.....

 

I said that too.  Get a high draft pick qb and trade picks to get there if need be.  But don't sacrifice a shot at the playoffs. 

I don't think they are...I'm not changing the offense for one guy that's not gonna be here.  They are giving him an opportunity to win in their system so he can stay, he's just not good enough.  You don't change the offense to go around one average player.  

 

I actually don't want Buffalo to trade up but take a guy where they are and fill in the holes around with the other picks.  There's not one worth trading up for in this class IMO.  If we trade up, I hope we keep most of our picks this year.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Buffalo30

[Billsfan1972]

3 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

I don't think they are...I'm not changing the offense for one guy that's not gonna be here.  They are giving him an opportunity to win in their system so he can stay, he's just not good enough.  You don't change the offense to go around one average player.  

 

I actually don't want Buffalo to trade up but take a guy where they are and fill in the holes around with the other picks.  There's not one worth trading up for in this class IMO.  If we trade up, I hope we keep most of our picks this year.

Easier to get a coach that adapts to players strengths then vice versa.

 

Hey I want a mobile qb, and will make Brady and Brees into them.

 

Stop it.

 

Maximize the skills of the players you have.

[unclepete]

21 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

 

And I need a supermodel wife who's going to support my gambling habit. Doesn't mean she's out there, though.

Ha! Me too! But this fan base isn’t going to

be happy until we have a “franchise” QB. I think Tyrod is good enough to hold down the position during a rebuild. But the front office has already moved on. 

[nedboy7]

In the playoff hunt yet obsessed w dissing our team. Welcome to buffalo! 

[Wayne Arnold]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Easier to get a coach that adapts to players strengths then vice versa.

 

Hey I want a mobile qb, and will make Brady and Brees into them.

 

Stop it.

 

Maximize the skills of the players you have.

 

Every coach runs the system he knows. No one throws out their play book because a player or two don't fit the scheme. They replace the player. That's the way it is and has always been.

[Wayne Arnold]

9 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Not necessarily at all.

 

Your telling me Bill Belichick doesn't adjust his play book to the personnel he has and what they do best? 

 

Anthony Lynn kept Ken Wisenhunt on as OC for the Chargers for a reason. He liked what they did offensively last season. 

 

Thats what makes a good coach a good coach. 

 

When he was hired by the Pats in 2000, Belichick completely turned over the defensive side of the roster with players that worked in his scheme before. He took over a team that hadn't had a losing record in five years with a defense that finished 9th and 16th in the previous two years and led it to 5-11 (21st in Defense) in his first season.

 

Maybe Belichick wasn't a good coach until his defense was filled with players who knew his scheme and Tom Brady was the starting QB?

[Bing Bong]

18 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

There is not supporting evidence of your bolded part of your argument.  I remain baffled, truly, at the number of you around here who hold on to this notion.  If anything, Taylor was brought to Buffalo to run the exact kind of offense the article points out as being antiquated and deficient.  Mainly Taylor was to manage a limited passing game and be supported by a strong ground game and defense (ball control offense).

 

The article does point out a severe problem in the NFL, one clearly present in Buffalo. That is the NFL is not a place or collective organization that is good at developing QB’s, the most important position to any team.  Coaching staffs come and go quickly in the win now league.  GM’s and coaches are on a carousel that simply cycles them around the league.  Many of them to the point of the article, simply hang on to what they know and implement in a new place hoping for different results.

 

My gut and the emerging evidence tells me that McDemott is not going to be much different than all of the other retread coaches in the league.  The real proof of this will occur this offseason when we see how he and Beane use the draft and free agency to rebuild the roster in addition to how they handle the QB situation.  McD’s greatest hope is that he can find a new OC, given he did not land his first choice, draft a good prospect QB and let the dice roll. In this scenario he would be well served to pick someone other than another retread OC and an individual who can develop a young QB.  Not an easy find if there even is someone to find for this role.

 

For all of you who hang on to the idea that Tyrod is the guy for Buffalo (because of the bolded thought above) you might as well give up.  His benching for a mid round, unproven draft pick, green rookie spoke volumes.  The management regime does not see what you see.  Taylor will be on another roster next year.  Maybe then all of you will see how good or bad he really is. 

Tyrod gets us a chance at the playoffs. You understimate how bad quarterbacks make a game impossible to win. I'm all for better talent at quarterback. Let's bring in our guy and keep tyrod and see who wins the starting job. Tyrod isn't preventing us from drafting a quarterback. He's just great insurance. And don't rookies benefit from adjusting to the NFL as backups? That is a long-term solution;  knowing we can field a competitive team.

[Bing Bong]

On 11/29/2017 at 9:30 PM, TigerJ said:

I think the article makes some good points, but there are some half truths and presumptions lurking within its paragraphs too.  Essentially, the article maintains that all but the worst QBs can succeed in the NFL.  It states that all but the worst and best QBs are system QBs.  The worst ones, everyone presumes is doomed to fail and the best ones can succeed with any offense, but the large group in between has to have the right offense for him to succeed.  He gives several examples that seem to bear this out Jared Goff and Case Keenum are having banner years despite having had miserable seasons a year ago when bother were on the same team (the Rams).  The Rams let Keenum go.  He was picked up by Minnesota.  They kept Goff as a #1 overall draft pick, but dumped their coaching staff (Jeff Fisher - running a "stodgy, outdated old 90's style ball control offense).  

 

Tyrod is mentioned as a QB currently stuck in a system that does not work for him.  That might be true, but it might not be too.  The problem is we haven't seen the system where he can really flourish.  Tyrod has been OK at times, both under Greg Roman.Anthony Lynn and under Rick Dennison, but he has never set the league on fire.  Until he does you can't say as a set in stone fact that all he needs is the right system.  Tell me what that system is.  My concern is alway that when you have a QB with a significantly limited skill set, as Tyrod has, (limited ability to make quick and accurate reads and a reluctance to throw timing passes where the receiver is supposed to get open after the ball leaves the QB's hand) it's too easy for a good defense to take away the limited things that Tyrod does well.  "We made him play QB."  I want my QB to be well rounded enough so that when the opposing defense takes away something, my QB can hurt them with something else.  Someone please prove to me that Tyrod can do that, because I don't see it.

That's actually just a cliche press conference comment that dumb players 

[Teddy KGB]

4 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

 keep tyrod and see who wins the starting job. Tyrod isn't preventing us from drafting a quarterback. He's just great insurance. 

 

??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️.    Worst idea ever 

[SoTier]

20 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

That is changing the whole offense to more of a college style man.  That's a college system, not an NFL system.  That's what he needs is a college system... 

Really?  He Traded Watkins and added Mathews and Benjamin.  I think that's adding more weapons than he's taken away.  Plus, they have Zay Jones.  And you can add some this offseason for whoever is QB next year.  

 

One guy on the offense got traded that was a starter...They added three new wideouts in less than a full year...I must be seeing something different man.  

 

Watkins probably wasn't coming back next year...so we actually got something for him instead of letting him walk.  I know it's different than the previous regimes we've had but it just might help the rebuilding process

 

Really?  They let both Woods and Goodwin walk in FA and then they traded Watkins.  Benjamin and Matthews are NOT the equivalent of any two of the three receivers the Bills got rid of simply because they cannot stretch the field.  Zay Jones isn't a deep threat, either, and it's only been recently that he's been able to catch the ball.  The Bills have absolutely no deep threat ... for a QB who has demonstrated that he can and will throw long in the past.     Benjamin, Matthews, and Jones are nothing special, and together, they're a joke as an NFL caliber WR corps -- and Benjamin has barely played.

 

Oh, and stuff the excuses for the Bills FO and the " so-and-so probably wasn't coming back next year ... ".   We've heard this bull manure every single time the Bills get rid of a good player in order to replace him with a cheaper, less talented player.   The Bills FO has spent the last 17 years religiously shedding good players rather than pay them and paying certain very average players for reasons known only to the suits at OBD, and what they did under the supposed "new regime"  is exactly the same kind of thing they did regularly under the "old regimes".