Apparently the offense is holding Tyrod back

[Wayne Arnold]

8 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I never hear about it, but does anybody wish we had considered Anthony Lynn? If Wayne wants "sustainable" offense, there's your answer.

 

Not that I missed Lynn at the time. But I do now.

 

I was just fine with promoting Lynn as long as he was able to get Gus Bradley here as DC. Actually preferred it. Then Taylor could be the long-term stop-gap at the very least.

 

Once Lynn was hired by the Chargers it was a foregone conclusion that the offense would change and that Taylor would not be nearly as valuable. That has proven to be the case, hence why I believe we need to replace Taylor.

[BuffaloHokie13]

20 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

I was just fine with promoting Lynn as long as he was able to get Gus Bradley here as DC. Actually preferred it. Then Taylor could be the long-term stop-gap at the very least.

 

Once Lynn was hired by the Chargers it was a foregone conclusion that the offense would change and that Taylor would not be nearly as valuable. That has proven to be the case, hence why I believe we need to replace Taylor.

Unfortunately, as demonstrated in LA, there is more to replacing Taylor than just replacing Taylor. His unorthodox skillset has been masking several deficiencies on offense (like pass protection).

[Teddy KGB]

 

13 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Oh it's very much the point when there are only 2.

 

Brady and Rodgers.

 

Everyone else is effectively either a system QB because of some inherent limitation..........or age.

 

 

Only two ? ??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️??‍♂️       Have another sip ??‍♂️

13 hours ago, Theshallowcross said:

 

 

Anyone who disregards these numbers has a clear agenda IMO. 

 

 

 

Jm2009 has 3 or 5 accounts ? 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Air it out Fitzy

[SoTier]

12 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

They don't fit each other...therefore...they both hold each other back.  It's not that hard to figure out.  Tyrod won't play as well because he needs a specific scheme to be successful.  The offense is hurt by him being a poor timing passer.  That has never been my argument.  At his best even in last year's system which was tailored to some of his strengths...he's just not good enough and he shows it on a handful of plays every game that could take our offense to the next level but he just can't do it.  If I were them, I wouldn't compromise their system so one guy who most likely isn't gonna be there will fit perfectly.  We'd have to completely change the offense for Tyrod.  The new coaches don't think he's good enough.  What has he done to prove he's anything better than average in his almost 3 years of starting??  Nothing...nothing is the right answer.  

 

I used to be a Tyrod supported until he showed he couldn't get better at his short timing passes.  He's just not good enough.  I'm not defending either Dennison or Tyrod.  In my opinion, both need to go.

 

So, that's an excuse to dismantle the offense?   The QB's not good enough so we'll get rid of all his WRs, screw up the OL by forcing a new blocking scheme on them that simply doesn't fit the personel, and hurt the running game by replacing a decent second RB with a crappy one, and that will surely give us the opportunity to do what, exactly?  Prove that Taylor isn't "good enough"?   Lose as many games as possible?   Demonstrate once again that the Bills remain committed to avoiding the playoffs at all costs?

[Billsfan1972]

24 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

So, that's an excuse to dismantle the offense?   The QB's not good enough so we'll get rid of all his WRs, screw up the OL by forcing a new blocking scheme on them that simply doesn't fit the personel, and hurt the running game by replacing a decent second RB with a crappy one, and that will surely give us the opportunity to do what, exactly?  Prove that Taylor isn't "good enough"?   Lose as many games as possible?   Demonstrate once again that the Bills remain committed to avoiding the playoffs at all costs?

That was the plan in August (see Watkins trade).......

 

And please before someone goes on about Gaines.  He could have probably been got for a 4th-5th round pick if they were so high on him.  He's been a pleasant surprise and was not a starter on the Rams.....

[SoTier]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

With who? 

 

Im all for a 1st round QB... Going to be pretty difficult to get a good one considering the teams in front of them currently. 

 

Many want to replace Taylor, but the list of BETTER available QBs will be slim to none, IMO.

 

This is something that too many Bills fans just cannot get their brains around.  They believe that the Bills are going to somehow manage to draft the next Aaron Rodgers just because they draft a QB in the first round.  Where they'll be drafting, they'll be lucky to get somebody as good as an Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill or Jay Cutler.  More than likely, if they draft a first round QB in 2018 just to put butts in the seats, which is what they did in 2004 and 2013, they'll get the same result they got then: a JP Losman or an EJ Manuel.

 

None of the veteran QBs likely to be available as FAs next season -- Bradford, Brees, Cousins, Keenum, Manning are probably the best of the lot --  will be willing to come to the Bills with their crappy OL and WR corps.   Maybe they could trade for Alex Smith -- give KC back their first rounder which would be  a Billsy thing to do -- and maintain their sterling reputation for being the NFL's easiest team to dupe.

[Billsfan1972]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

With who? 

 

Im all for a 1st round QB... Going to be pretty difficult to get a good one considering the teams in front of them currently. 

 

Many want to replace Taylor, but the list of BETTER available QBs will be slim to none, IMO.

And please not Eli......  

 

Interesting reading all the negative press the Giants received wanting to move forward from a QB on a 2-9 team.  Yes decimated at receiver, but watching Eli and he is missing thrws terribly this season and age is catching up.

 

BTW their rookie was drafted in round 3, well ahead of the Bills saviour Peterman and the Giants want to see him, but have stated categorically that he is no where near ready to start on a team that is 2-9 and will happily draft a QB with their high draft choice if the one they want is available.

 

Interesting just how different that narrative is.....

 

 

[BuffaloBill]

14 hours ago, Theshallowcross said:

 

Tyrod Taylor is not a transcendent QB, but there only 2 of those guys in the entire NFL. What Taylor is, is a quarterback that can run an NFL level offense proficiently, make teams play 11 on 11 and allows a team to build the other 52 players on the roster because you can be confident that he is a good player. Only in Buffalo is he unappreciated. I assure you that the national narrative is much different. Especially when looking at advanced analytics as everyone in 2017 should do. 

 

There is not supporting evidence of your bolded part of your argument.  I remain baffled, truly, at the number of you around here who hold on to this notion.  If anything, Taylor was brought to Buffalo to run the exact kind of offense the article points out as being antiquated and deficient.  Mainly Taylor was to manage a limited passing game and be supported by a strong ground game and defense (ball control offense).

 

The article does point out a severe problem in the NFL, one clearly present in Buffalo. That is the NFL is not a place or collective organization that is good at developing QB’s, the most important position to any team.  Coaching staffs come and go quickly in the win now league.  GM’s and coaches are on a carousel that simply cycles them around the league.  Many of them to the point of the article, simply hang on to what they know and implement in a new place hoping for different results.

 

My gut and the emerging evidence tells me that McDemott is not going to be much different than all of the other retread coaches in the league.  The real proof of this will occur this offseason when we see how he and Beane use the draft and free agency to rebuild the roster in addition to how they handle the QB situation.  McD’s greatest hope is that he can find a new OC, given he did not land his first choice, draft a good prospect QB and let the dice roll. In this scenario he would be well served to pick someone other than another retread OC and an individual who can develop a young QB.  Not an easy find if there even is someone to find for this role.

 

For all of you who hang on to the idea that Tyrod is the guy for Buffalo (because of the bolded thought above) you might as well give up.  His benching for a mid round, unproven draft pick, green rookie spoke volumes.  The management regime does not see what you see.  Taylor will be on another roster next year.  Maybe then all of you will see how good or bad he really is. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

 

Eli wouldn't come here.

Sarcasm.....  

 

They are talking Jacksonville though.  

[corta765]

16 hours ago, Gavin in Va Beach said:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2746257-where-is-the-nfls-next-wave-of-great-quarterbacks-hiding

 

 

The article itself actually has a solid concept in the idea that teams need to develop QBs more and the expectation of just finding with ease a franchise QB with no need to development is foolish.

 

BUT yea this part stuck out like a sore thumb. The writer completely ignores that Roman after year 1 with Tyrod which he created an offense that was made to his best qualities in year 2 tried to develop Tyrod into a pocket passer. Taylor could not and did not develop.

 

It gets really frustrating to hear from the media that the Bills should just be grateful for Tyrod and be done with it. For the record I had zero issue with Taylor coming back even next year to let the rookie QB we have develop but that bridge is smoldering thanks to Peterman coming in when he did. I am not sure why the Bills should be forced to settle with an average QB that at times plays above average. I am a Tyrod fan but he isn't the long term either.

[Wayne Arnold]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Unfortunately, as demonstrated in LA, there is more to replacing Taylor than just replacing Taylor. His unorthodox skillset has been masking several deficiencies on offense (like pass protection).

 

No doubt there are more issues than just quarterback. I'd like to see Dennison and Castillo both replaced after the New Year. They'll have to rebuild the OLine and they'll need to acquire some more running backs even if Shady returns in 2018. I do like the wide receiver corp of Benjamin, Jones and Matthews (if they re-sign him).

 

There will be solid QB choices in free agency this offseason and we have two first rounders to work with to grab a potential franchise QB so I'm optimistic there.

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

With who? 

 

Im all for a 1st round QB... Going to be pretty difficult to get a good one considering the teams in front of them currently. 

 

Many want to replace Taylor, but the list of BETTER available QBs will be slim to none, IMO.

 

An upgrade at offensive coordinator is important. Once that's established, then it will depend on how well the quarterback fits in the new OC's system. I'm intrigued by Teddy Bridgewater. I'm sure there will be others available.

[TheFunPolice]

3 different OC and 2 different HC...

 

The difference is the last HC wanted Tyrod all the way back to when he was with the Jets, so he was invested. The new guys just want a reason to sell benching him for good.

[The Now Moment]

13 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How do you change the whole offense?  You put him in shotgun, with Shady< move the pocket at time, have a speed receiver to go long and pass some more.  It's not a huge change, just tweaks,

That is changing the whole offense to more of a college style man.  That's a college system, not an NFL system.  That's what he needs is a college system... 

12 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

What young weapons? 

 

McBeane traded them all away. 

Really?  He Traded Watkins and added Mathews and Benjamin.  I think that's adding more weapons than he's taken away.  Plus, they have Zay Jones.  And you can add some this offseason for whoever is QB next year.  

 

One guy on the offense got traded that was a starter...They added three new wideouts in less than a full year...I must be seeing something different man.  

 

Watkins probably wasn't coming back next year...so we actually got something for him instead of letting him walk.  I know it's different than the previous regimes we've had but it just might help the rebuilding process

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said:

That is changing the whole offense to more of a college style man.  That's a college system, not an NFL system.  That's what he needs is a college system... 

 

Here is a great site......  Just searched formations. 

 

http://nflsavant.com/search.php?hfPTY=&hfRTY=&hfPT=&hfF=S|&ddlDown=&ddlQuarter=&ddlYardLineGT=&ddlYardLineLT=&txtGameDateGT=&txtGameDateLT=&txtYTGGT=&txtYTGLT=&txtYFPGT=&txtYFPLT=&hfPR=&ddlYear=2017&ddlOTeam=&ddlDTeam=&ddlBall=Offense&ddlPenaltyType=&ddlOrderBy=Plays#results

 

And Buffalo not in it nearly enough looking at the stats.

[The Now Moment]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

Here is a great site......  Just searched formations. 

 

http://nflsavant.com/search.php?hfPTY=&hfRTY=&hfPT=&hfF=S|&ddlDown=&ddlQuarter=&ddlYardLineGT=&ddlYardLineLT=&txtGameDateGT=&txtGameDateLT=&txtYTGGT=&txtYTGLT=&txtYFPGT=&txtYFPLT=&hfPR=&ddlYear=2017&ddlOTeam=&ddlDTeam=&ddlBall=Offense&ddlPenaltyType=&ddlOrderBy=Plays#results

 

And Buffalo not in it nearly enough looking at the stats.

I watch more football than I probably should.  I rewatch Bills games on youtube late at night just for fun.  I also get my fair share of college football as I am in love with watching college prospects blossom into great players in the NFL.  Tyrod needs a college scheme where he can be in shotgun the entire time...the coaching staff doesn't want to change the offense for one player who isn't gonna be here next year.  I don't blame them

[Billsfan1972]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

I watch more football than I probably should.  I rewatch Bills games on youtube late at night just for fun.  I also get my fair share of college football as I am in love with watching college prospects blossom into great players in the NFL.  Tyrod needs a college scheme where he can be in shotgun the entire time...the coaching staff doesn't want to change the offense for one player who isn't gonna be here next year.  I don't blame them

And how much does the offensive schemes and blocking change as they have shotgun sequences anyways?  

 

You hand off to McCoy sometimes as opposed to passing, and instead of being under center he's in shotgun.

 

Seems easier for everyone and should have better success.

[The Now Moment]

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

So, that's an excuse to dismantle the offense?   The QB's not good enough so we'll get rid of all his WRs, screw up the OL by forcing a new blocking scheme on them that simply doesn't fit the personel, and hurt the running game by replacing a decent second RB with a crappy one, and that will surely give us the opportunity to do what, exactly?  Prove that Taylor isn't "good enough"?   Lose as many games as possible?   Demonstrate once again that the Bills remain committed to avoiding the playoffs at all costs?

Why would a head coach come in and run the same offense and same defense as the last HC who was fired?  Clearly something isn't working if you get fired.  He traded away one weapon and Sammy was going into the final year of his contract most likely to leave in free agency like Woods did.  This regime brought in two young veterans who have had 1,000 yard seasons or close to it in the past to accompany the 2nd round rookie in Zay Jones who is gradually improving as the year goes on.  

 

The new blocking scheme is what they are going to run moving forward.  Don't switch to it next year so the young guys will have to learn yet another system.  

 

They have a winning record going into December. Does that sound like they are trying to lose as many games as possible?  

 

The coaching staff is gonna do things their way, just like all the other coaches in the NFL do.  This regime is less than a year in...

[The Now Moment]

39 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And how much does the offensive schemes and blocking change as they have shotgun sequences anyways?  

 

You hand off to McCoy sometimes as opposed to passing, and instead of being under center he's in shotgun.

 

Seems easier for everyone and should have better success.

You sound like you want a spread offense like they play in college...that is far from what we have.  The blocking schemes do change and the running back would be receiving the handoff further into the backfield.  

 

Again, I'm not changing the entire offense for Tyrod, who isn't going to be here next year.  If Tyrod was a good QB, he'd be able to throw quick timing passes.  He's yet to improve enough.  

 

I look at the moves they make from a future standpoint and a now standpoint.  The future outweighs the now for me.  I'd rather have great long term success over short barely scraping into the playoffs success. That's the reason I didn't mind them putting in Peterman.  Tyrod hasn't been good enough in his entire career for me.  We didn't know what Peterman could do yet.  Unfortunately, it didn't work.  At least we dared to be better than average at the position though.  I'm tired of the conservative settling for a travelling QB who is average approach.  

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

You sound like you want a spread offense like they play in college...that is far from what we have.  The blocking schemes do change and the running back would be receiving the handoff further into the backfield.  

 

Again, I'm not changing the entire offense for Tyrod, who isn't going to be here next year.  If Tyrod was a good QB, he'd be able to throw quick timing passes.  He's yet to improve enough.  

 

I look at the moves they make from a future standpoint and a now standpoint.  The future outweighs the now for me.  I'd rather have great long term success over short barely scraping into the playoffs success. That's the reason I didn't mind them putting in Peterman.  Tyrod hasn't been good enough in his entire career for me.  We didn't know what Peterman could do yet.  Unfortunately, it didn't work.  At least we dared to be better than average at the position though.  I'm tired of the conservative settling for a travelling QB who is average approach.  

And we've seen no proof that we are capable of long-term success.

 

This was a .500 team that was closer to the playoffs then a top draft pick.  This pie in the sky idea that we can get rid of all the valuable pieces for draft picks and be a powerhouse in 2-3 years is bunk.

 

Show me a team that has done it and been successful.

 

All the great teams have a history of being good.

 

I much rather would have placed my hope in a coaching staff cleaning up the mess much like the Rams have done, vs. the tear the house down to the studs and cross your fingers.

 

They were a within 2 games of the playoffs the last 3 years and that we attributed to bad coaching not the players. 

 

If it was the players, then why were the coaches fired/left......

 

Only 1 team wins the SB every year and the Bills haven't made the playoffs since 1999.

[The Now Moment]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

And we've seen no proof that we are capable of long-term success.

 

This was a .500 team that was closer to the playoffs then a top draft pick.  This pie in the sky idea that we can get rid of all the valuable pieces for draft picks and be a powerhouse in 2-3 years is bunk.

 

Show me a team that has done it and been successful.

 

All the great teams have a history of being good.

 

I much rather would have placed my hope in a coaching staff cleaning up the mess much like the Rams have done, vs. the tear the house down to the studs and cross your fingers.

 

They were a within 2 games of the playoffs the last 3 years and that we attributed to bad coaching not the players. 

 

If it was the players, then why were the coaches fired/left......

 

Only 1 team wins the SB every year and the Bills haven't made the playoffs since 1999.

Philly just did it haha. They were halfway decent the entire time as well and traded up for their QB.  Now they are sitting at 10 wins before decemeber...

 

Of course their is no proof but if you don't try to find a young QB for the long term...you aren't even giving yourself a chance.  Again, I am excited that we are actually daring to be better than...if twenty things happen in the last 3 weeks of the season we will be in...