teef Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yeah...I'm not sure why I keep trying to have a discussion with him. Recent discussion with him.....he didn't criticize Taylor for that bad throw to O'Leary because the pass was complete and it was O'Leary's for not rolling on the ground a few more yards for the first. But at the same time, he will criticize Goff all day long for not putting the ball in right spot all the time. he's like the crazy girlfriend that goes way over the top to defend a boyfriend that doesn't really care for her too much.
Royale with Cheese Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: 300 yard passing teams have a win percentage of .575 this year (42-31 assuming my math is right). Tyrod Taylor has a win percentage .600 this year. I don’t see the correlation? If anything it dispels that notion in that winning teams (like the Pats and Eagles) get great QB play. Just saying... IMO, it's just about effectively moving the ball through the air. 300, 285, 260, 240 etc......doesn't matter. Just be able to be a threat in the air. We aren't that.
Captain Murica Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 27 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Need to be able to Pass and Run with some degree of success, and we've struggled with each this year. Here's a list of QBs averaging less than 220 passing yards per game this year: Eli Manning Cam Newton Andy Dalton Dak Prescott Blake Bortles Tyrod Taylor Brett Hundley Tom Savage Ryan Fitzpatrick DeShone Kizer Jay Cutler Joe Flacco Mitch Trubisky ---- Matt Moore Mike Glennon Brian Hoyer Drew Stanton Only three of those QB's have a record over .500, which one has more INTs than Touchdowns.
buffalostu2 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 You might as well push for the top ranked defense in yards instead of points while you are at it. Points is all that matters. The assumption that you are making is that more passing yards will lead to more points and more winning. Why? Show me 100% correlation and why 300 yds is the number. 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Fair point Kirby. But id counter with what could the possibility of a 250 yard game do for this team? teams are stacking the box and daring us to throw. Isn't it the same as playing nickel and dime all game against good throwing QBs? Teams are going to do whatever they can to take away what you do best.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Captain Murica said: Only three of those QB's have a record over .500, which one has more INTs than Touchdowns. It was mostly just to demonstrate that we are far from alone when it comes to lackluster passing performances. That's not to excuse it, just to point out it's not just us.
Billsfan1972 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, teef said: he's like the crazy girlfriend that goes way over the top to defend a boyfriend that doesn't really care for her too much. And you don't have a single point to make, watched a single LA Rams game or actually look at the #'s. Let me guess Watson threw for 402 yards vs. Seattle but lost, so Watson stunk as he was the losing QB. Watch the Rams, Goff and actually analyse the game before you spew incorrect and misinformation.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) I hear what everyone is saying but I need the data to support it. There are a lot of intuitive points being made. As an example, if both teams throw for 300 yards there is a winner and a loser. That’s true just like if both QBs throw for less than 300 yards there is a winner and a loser. I don’t disagree that a better passing offense would benefit the Bills but I’d like to see the data that supports it. As of right now, I’m not seeing the correlation. Edited November 28, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Billsfan1972 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Posted November 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Yeah...I'm not sure why I keep trying to have a discussion with him. Recent discussion with him.....he didn't criticize Taylor for that bad throw to O'Leary because the pass was complete and it was O'Leary's for not rolling on the ground a few more yards for the first. But at the same time, he will criticize Goff all day long for not putting the ball in right spot all the time. Still complaining about a completion. Did you too complain about the pass to Clay that maybe if the DB anticipated the throw quicker would have intercepted. Yes the reason to cut Tyrod right then and there.
Royale with Cheese Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I hear what everyone is saying but I need the data to support it. There are a lot of intuitive points being made. As an example, if both teams throw for 300 yards there is a winner and a loser. That’s true just like if both QBs throw for less than 300 yards there is a winner and a loser. I don’t disagree that a better passing offense would benefit the Bills but I’d like to see the data that supports it. As of right now, I’m not seeing the correlation. What kind of data would you be looking for with this? How many bottom 3 passing teams in NFL in terms of yardage make the playoffs? I'm not sure which specific data you would need.
Billsfan1972 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I hear what everyone is saying but I need the data to support it. There are a lot of intuitive points being made. As an example, if both teams throw for 300 yards there is a winner and a loser. That’s true just like if both QBs throw for less than 300 yards there is a winner and a loser. I don’t disagree that a better passing offense would benefit the Bills but I’d like to see the data that supports it. As of right now, I’m not seeing the correlation. I used the benchmark of 300, because for at least 75% of the NFL the game plan includes not letting the opposing team beat you in the air throwing for 300..... Against the Bills you don't gameplan them throwing. Last time I remember was the first half vs. KC when Taylor & Watkins shredded them and then come the second half stopped....... Edited November 28, 2017 by Billsfan1972
Royale with Cheese Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said: Still complaining about a completion. Did you too complain about the pass to Clay that maybe if the DB anticipated the throw quicker would have intercepted. Yes the reason to cut Tyrod right then and there. You're coming after me about complaining when you complain more than anyone on this board? How many times are you complaining about Watkins, you know a LA Rams player not getting enough targets? Then you'll complain Kupp gets too many targets. It seems to me you're not a Bills fan, you're a Watkins fan. You create threads that a Rams player needs to step up....a Rams player. What's funny is you complained about O'Leary for not rolling on the ground to get a few more yards for the first. Of all the people to criticize, you criticized him on that play. I also never said cut Tyrod or anything close to that. Are you always this dramatic?
jr1 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 Cousins is second in passing yards and has a losing record
Kirby Jackson Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: What kind of data would you be looking for with this? How many bottom 3 passing teams in NFL in terms of yardage make the playoffs? I'm not sure which specific data you would need. I’d want to see something specific to the Bills. I don’t care about other teams because there are a ton of variables. I’d expect a team with Tom Brady to throw for 300 a lot and win a lot. I don’t see the correlation between the passing yards and the record. They win when they throw for 300 and when they don’t. They win because they are the Pats. I was watching the game last night and think that they said Tom Savage was the first QB to throw for 250 against Baltimore. He was terrible. I’d like to see a whole bunch of data specific to the Bills over the last few years. It isn’t just limited to passing. How do they do when they get 3 sacks (or whatever)? How do they do when they average 4.5 ypc? Etc, etc, etc... What has happened in Bills wins? How do we do it more? That’s what is of interest to me.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’d want to see something specific to the Bills. I don’t care about other teams because there are a ton of variables. I’d expect a team with Tom Brady to throw for 300 a lot and win a lot. I don’t see the correlation between the passing yards and the record. They win when they throw for 300 and when they don’t. They win because they are the Pats. I was watching the game last night and think that they said Tom Savage was the first QB to throw for 250 against Baltimore. He was terrible. I’d like to see a whole bunch of data specific to the Bills over the last few years. It isn’t just limited to passing. How do they do when they get 3 sacks (or whatever)? How do they do when they average 4.5 ypc? Etc, etc, etc... What has happened in Bills wins? How do we do it more? That’s what is of interest to me. Flacco was also awful in that game.
teef Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 14 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: And you don't have a single point to make, watched a single LA Rams game or actually look at the #'s. Let me guess Watson threw for 402 yards vs. Seattle but lost, so Watson stunk as he was the losing QB. Watch the Rams, Goff and actually analyse the game before you spew incorrect and misinformation. you tell me not to spew incorrect and misinformation, and then have to nerve to tell us that goff is being coached not to throw into watkins direction? you realize how crazy girlfriendish that sounds. i have no idea why you mentioned watson to me. it doesn't change the fact that once you have an opinion, you'll literally fabricate facts to prove a point. you've actually lied to the board to defend watkins and taylor. (this is coming from someone who likes taylor too).
Royale with Cheese Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’d want to see something specific to the Bills. I don’t care about other teams because there are a ton of variables. I’d expect a team with Tom Brady to throw for 300 a lot and win a lot. I don’t see the correlation between the passing yards and the record. They win when they throw for 300 and when they don’t. They win because they are the Pats. I was watching the game last night and think that they said Tom Savage was the first QB to throw for 250 against Baltimore. He was terrible. I’d like to see a whole bunch of data specific to the Bills over the last few years. It isn’t just limited to passing. How do they do when they get 3 sacks (or whatever)? How do they do when they average 4.5 ypc? Etc, etc, etc... What has happened in Bills wins? How do we do it more? That’s what is of interest to me. That's going to take a lot.....and I mean a lot of digging to get that data. Like I said earlier, there doesn't have to be a specific number, just the ability to move the ball in the air with more effectiveness. A single number of 300 doesn't mean much to me. When Trent Edwards was playing well at QB for us before the concussion, he never threw for 300 yards but we were moving the ball pretty well in the air. We started out 4-0 and he started checking down everything after the concussion, our offense sucked going forward.
GoBills808 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 Well this year at least, 5/6 of our wins come when the other team scores 17 or less points. League median this year looks to be around 23...17 ppg is almost 30th. 1
John from Riverside Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: Forget trying to tell us that 300 yard games mean nothing when it comes to wins and losses as that is often wrong, especially when both QB's throw for 300 and teams trying to come back. I am posting as to having a QB & Offense that at the start of the game you game plan to stop them throwing for 300 yards. That is the problem with the Bills. No defensive coordinator thinks the Bills want to throw for 200, much less then 300 and basically beg them to try (and they don't). Name me a team in the league that can't throw for 300...... Browns (maybe), Jags (Bortles has), Baltimore, Denver & Chicago (Trubinsky)...... That's it...... I've been waiting for a game that the Bills try to establish the pass (first 6 weeks every NE opponent did). And when they do & if Tyrod fails miserably, then you can say "I told you so". I feel that this is a bit of a misleading title If TT was throwing for over 200 and under 300 and winning nobody would be complaining about passing yards except the folk that just need something to complain about He isnt.....which is why we probably will have a new qb next year
Bill_with_it Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said: Forget trying to tell us that 300 yard games mean nothing when it comes to wins and losses as that is often wrong, especially when both QB's throw for 300 and teams trying to come back. I am posting as to having a QB & Offense that at the start of the game you game plan to stop them throwing for 300 yards. That is the problem with the Bills. No defensive coordinator thinks the Bills want to throw for 200, much less then 300 and basically beg them to try (and they don't). Name me a team in the league that can't throw for 300...... Browns (maybe), Jags (Bortles has), Baltimore, Denver & Chicago (Trubinsky)...... That's it...... I've been waiting for a game that the Bills try to establish the pass (first 6 weeks every NE opponent did). And when they do & if Tyrod fails miserably, then you can say "I told you so". Let me help you out. First click on this link: http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/passing second find a team on their averaging 300 yds per game passing. thats all for the steps. there isnt a single team in the league even the goat averaging 300 yds per game. Your take is ridiculous. Even the vaulted eagles are averaging only 234 yds per game.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I just glanced quickly, so maybe I'm off, but since 2015 the Bills are 2-9 when the QB passes for more than 250 yards. Really weird. Even Taylor at his bestest ever games we end up losing.
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