PolishDave Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 8 hours ago, BillsVet said: The chances that the HC, who has already went back on his QB decision in year 1, would then also fire the OC after one season is a stretch. Dennison runs the scheme that McDermott wants. Coordinators, even the one on the HC's side of the ball, aren't doing the big picture (i.e scheme) thing on their own. This reminds me a little of when Steve Fairchild was OC for DJ in 06-07. Everyone clamored for Fairchild to dial up more long passes and it didn't really happen. It was a lot of run-run-pass type stuff we see from this coaching staff. And, much of this was DJ's desire to have a ball control offense paired with that Cover 2 defense. I think you are wrong about that. I think the offensive coordinator is the one largely responsible for the design and implementation of whatever offense is being ran. There are exceptions to that I am sure. I just don't think the Bills' situation is one of them. I think it has been mentioned that McDermott preferred other guys ahead of Dennsion. He more or less settled on Dennison as the best guy available to him at the time. And he had to convince Dennison to come here. You don't convince a guy with Dennison's pedigree and experience to come work for you by telling him you are going to run my offense. My opinion is that these guys got together and talked about each other's philosophies and that McDermott essentially put his stamp of approval on what Dennison's approach was going to be. And I am sure that McDermott influences that offense to some extent. How much is unknown. But based on what we are seeing, this looks like an offense that Dennison has ran before. They even said as much coming into this year as Dennison was bringing the stretch zone **** style running game with him. McDermott likely prefers a somewhat different approach to offense - otherwise he wouldn't have had other guys ahead of Dennison that he wanted to come here to coach the offense. He would have wanted Dennison first.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 21 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: He was a great addition for the year that he was there. Now it’s back to these guys: I recognize DC Tom, who's the other guy again? 2
PolishDave Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Dennison is undoubtedly part of the offensive regression, and I thought he called a pretty bad game Sunday.... but I still think he is being seen by fans as a bit of a scapegoat. The inconvenient truth is that ANY offensive coordinator would have had trouble replicating the success of Greg Roman's run scheme. Why? Because Roman is the best run game coordinator in the league. They have been down their best lineman, two others are showing signs of ageing and a fourth is being inserted into the lineup by an o-line coach that Dennison didn't even hire. Their receiving options early in the season were really bad and they have had average play from the Quarterback position. I did say throughout the offseason (and was shouted down) that I did not see this offense as a fit for Tyrod. The fact that he plays better out of the shotgun was always likely to be an issue.... it was an issue when Kubiak and Dennison arrived in Denver and found Peyton Manning in situ. Once you start putting your QB back in the shotgun so much it takes away from the construct of the zone stretch scheme. Could Dennison have done more to adjust for that? Sure. But if you don't want him to run the offense that he has been immersed in during his career coaching in this league then don't hire him. Having said all that, which is not to defend Dennison as such but to provide a more balanced and nuanced assessment of his performance, if he was behind the decision to go to Nathan Peterman at the point that we did he should be fired. The kid clearly, clearly was not ready and it was a reckless decision that long term may have consequences that haven't yet revealed themselves. It was inevitable post the New Orleans game that at some point they would want to see what they had there.... but the timing was just wrong. As for what alternatives do the Bills have if they were to move on from Rick Dennison..... please not Mike McCoy. I don't know where is super reputation comes from, but any reputation he did have left should have been obliterated by the mess in Denver this year and the sudden emergence of the Chargers offense without him. I think they need to choose a coordinator based on what type of Quarterback they intend to pick. Good post. I think a lot of it is just an example of how the coaches generally think they are a more important part of the puzzle than the players are. And their unwillingness to explore other "proven" approaches to play design and philosophy than what they currently "think" is the best way to do things. I am willing to give Dennison and McDermott a break on the Peterman starting thing. I am convinced their mindset was something along these lines leading up to that game - "We have been regressing horribly on offense the last two weeks. We need to try something different. Lynn knows the strengths and weaknesses of this offense better than any other coach we have faced yet. This game could be a complete disaster. What could we do to change that? Maybe if we start Peterman and execute well in the short passing game- we can catch Lynn's defense off guard and come out of there with a win. And we will get to see Peterman perform under strong pressure. We can't just go into this game hoping the trend from the last two weeks is going to reverse itself if we keep doing the same thing. Ok - let's give it a shot and see how it turns out. Worst case, if it becomes a disaster, we can always go back to Tyrod. Best case, we catch lightening in bottle and we found our new quarterback." Or something along those lines generally. As far as McCoy goes, your logic makes sense. Plus we would be guessing which McCoy everyone is talking about when they are blaming the offense for something.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: As for what alternatives do the Bills have if they were to move on from Rick Dennison..... please not Mike McCoy. I don't know where is super reputation comes from, but any reputation he did have left should have been obliterated by the mess in Denver this year and the sudden emergence of the Chargers offense without him. I think they need to choose a coordinator based on what type of Quarterback they intend to pick. It may be unpopular with some on here, but if everything went perfectly this offseason I think the scenario to the most immediate success is to bring in Hue Jackson as OC once he's fired in Cleveland and pay Kirk Cousins with the cap money we've freed up with our previous moves. That lets us keep our draft picks where they are and work on rebuilding the OL, DL, LBs, and offensive skill players.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: It may be unpopular with some on here, but if everything went perfectly this offseason I think the scenario to the most immediate success is to bring in Hue Jackson as OC once he's fired in Cleveland and pay Kirk Cousins with the cap money we've freed up with our previous moves. That lets us keep our draft picks where they are and work on rebuilding the OL, DL, LBs, and offensive skill players. Rainbows and Unicorns
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 9 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: Listen at 20 minute mark http://www.wgr550.com/media/audio-channel/11-27-tyler-dunne-bleacher-report-sal-capaccio The transcript is properly disclaimed: "Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate." It's proper gibberish. Sample: " Yeah you go and on the news caught a volley on that last caller gave Bob. Would it Tyrod. He's a great athlete EC that's by example he works higher IQ daddies are one in the weight room he's artist's work and I don't know why everyone down slumped. Because he doesn't grab face Max apparently and yell at people. Now we're yet he's smaller but keep an athlete and he's he's very athletic and he gets out of hockey extend the play. And I do think personally I think dentist and has that I'm a little more better off spent for Tyrod to play his game because he's not a he's not here the pocket passer "
Wayne Arnold Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 They both go because neither are good enough.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Rainbows and Unicorns I mean, it's not entirely unrealistic. I've just come to expect the Bills to not do what I want them to. 1
ProcessTheTrust Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 If they keep Dennison, I hope we pick up some other former OC who had any level of success to take over a position coach spot because it won't be long in 2018 till Dennison is fired and we need someone to step in on the fly. OR, let's avoid that whole deal and just get a real OC.
Mr. WEO Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Dunne is pretty astute. It's hard for a head coach to be ruthless and disloyal to your assistants in the NFL. These are "his guys". Roman says "what?". Anyway, Dunne is referring specifically to the Peterson move. It's not an astute observation.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: It may be unpopular with some on here, but if everything went perfectly this offseason I think the scenario to the most immediate success is to bring in Hue Jackson as OC once he's fired in Cleveland and pay Kirk Cousins with the cap money we've freed up with our previous moves. That lets us keep our draft picks where they are and work on rebuilding the OL, DL, LBs, and offensive skill players. Consider Denver as a cautionary tale. If a team has success under a QB (Denver was 5-2 under Osweiler) but lets that QB go to another team in FA, "they're not that into him" Ask "why are they not that into him"? In Denver's case, the answer became clear: they're not that into him because it was all done with Defense and run game, he's not that good. Meanwhile the OC of the team that signs him is trying to spin straw into Gold while the GM smothers in salary cap hell. I think Cousins is all that, Washington is into him, and any negotiating with other teams will only be used to jack up his salary. But Houston is the latest in a line of teams with the message: if you pay big bucks for a FA QB, and he's not in fact "the man" it will cripple you. Edited November 28, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Consider Denver as a cautionary tale. If a team has success under a QB (Denver was 5-2 under Osweiler) but lets that QB go to another team in FA, "they're not that into him" Why are they "not that into him"? Meanwhile the team that signs him is backing up the Brinks truck. I think Cousins is all that, Washington is into him, and any negotiating with other teams will only be used to jack up his salary. Washington can want whatever they want, I don't think Cousins is interested in staying in Washington. The Osweiler situation was very different in that the team around him was very good, Cousins isn't backed up by a D like Denver had then. As far as the brinks truck goes, I can't imagine Cousins is going to get a deal much different than Stafford's at best. Maybe I'm completely off base, but the only way I see Cousins in Washington next year is if they franchise him again (and that's incredibly cost prohibitive).
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 9 hours ago, kota said: Dennison isn't the problem. It's Tyrod plain and simple. I realize that Peterman threw 5 INT's. That sucks. Alot of it had to do with him being a rookie and terrible blocking up front for him. A lot of it had to do with Peterman having the pocket presence of a dyslexic squirrel - not knowing when to hold it and when to fold it. He's far from the first rookie to face a stout pass rush behind a porous OL, but he is the first rookie to throw 5 INT in a half of football. I heard an interview with Eli Manning where he claims the ability to sense and react to pressure in the game, is something that really can't be taught, you have it or don't. I don't know if that's right, but the thought doesn't leave me encouraged about Peterman's ability to learn and "never do that again". I'm not sure how anyone could watch our run game/run blocking last year, and our run game/run blocking this year, and not believe that Dennison is at least a big part, whatever your position on Tyrod.
BillsVet Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 45 minutes ago, Buddo said: Someone mentioned Fairchild and Jauron earlier in the thread. If you remember those years, then Fairchild was actually a competent OC, but he had crap to work with, coupled with Jauron's desire to be ultra conservative offensively. You only have to look at the OCs we had after Fairchild, under Jauron, to realize that Fairchild wasn't the problem. Yet fans pretty much hated Fairchild, and wanted him gone. A concern here would be that Dennison isn't anywhere near as bad as we are making out, and its as much about what he has to work with, somewhat like the situation with Fairchild, and that he's made the scapegoat before being able to fully implement what he wants to do. McDermott strikes me as a HC who will be pretty clear how he wants things to be, so if you are chasing Dennison to run him out of town, you should also be chasing McDermott. I don't believe that any HC is going to run an offense that doesn't complement the defense. If the coach is conservative, which McD clearly is, then both sides of the ball will be as well. They're not going to air it out and then have a defense which isn't enormously talented that can struggle. McDermott is beginning to look like Mr. Conservative and needs both sides of the ball to fit that vision until he at least has a QB. And that's why we're not going to see more passing despite the league going this way. I think McD saw TT as the guy to execute this style of offense and hoped Dennison would design an offense with this in mind. In the end, a very good QB takes the spotlight off of coaching. And they have an average QB right now who leaves plays on the field, yet doesn't turn it over. Right now that's driving their offense more than the OC. And yeah, the HC has responsibility there as well.
BobChalmers Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 I'm sorry - why do we need to keep either of them? Fire Rico, tell him to take Juan with him. Reassign DuCasse to front entrance security/ticket check at the stadium where he can be where he belongs hanging out with his own kind (the turnstiles). Dump Tyrod and his $16M or so salary, use the money to keep KB and Matthews. Draft a QB and MLB in the first, DT and OG in the second. << as available. Start a fully prepped NP week one and/or bring the rookie in as soon as he's ready.
GunnerBill Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, BobChalmers said: Fire Rico, tell him to take Juan with him. While McDermott is here, Juan Castillo is here. He was McDermott's hire, hired before Dennison. He is tied to the HC not the OC.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Washington can want whatever they want, I don't think Cousins is interested in staying in Washington. The Osweiler situation was very different in that the team around him was very good, Cousins isn't backed up by a D like Denver had then. As far as the brinks truck goes, I can't imagine Cousins is going to get a deal much different than Stafford's at best. Maybe I'm completely off base, but the only way I see Cousins in Washington next year is if they franchise him again (and that's incredibly cost prohibitive). Oh, I think he's not thrilled with them and he wants to "test the market", but there's "not interested in principle" and there's "not interested under any circumstances whatsoever." It would be hard to walk away from the right deal. Sure there are differences - Washington's D is mediocre. Their O is top-third, but not top tier. There are better destinations, but many of the QB needy ones are also worse. The GM who lets Cousins walk will face a lot of scrutiny and 2nd guessing if they have nothing decent at QB next year. I could be wrong, but I think Stafford's deal will be the starting place and the pile o' cash will get deeper from there - Stafford did get a $50M bonus, but his deal overall seems relatively cap friendly for the next 3-4 years. And eventually, you may be right, Cousins may walk anyway. 13 minutes ago, BillsVet said: I don't believe that any HC is going to run an offense that doesn't complement the defense. If the coach is conservative, which McD clearly is, then both sides of the ball will be as well. They're not going to air it out and then have a defense which isn't enormously talented that can struggle. McDermott is beginning to look like Mr. Conservative and needs both sides of the ball to fit that vision until he at least has a QB. And that's why we're not going to see more passing despite the league going this way. I think McD saw TT as the guy to execute this style of offense and hoped Dennison would design an offense with this in mind. In the end, a very good QB takes the spotlight off of coaching. And they have an average QB right now who leaves plays on the field, yet doesn't turn it over. Right now that's driving their offense more than the OC. And yeah, the HC has responsibility there as well. Don't you think the decision to start Peterman is a signal that Dennison in fact, wants to air it out far more often than he can with Tyrod? Rush-centered offense is one thing - I regularly point out all the recently successful teams that depend upon it - but the fact is, Dennison's run schemes and play calling aren't just conservative, they seem to be ineffective and predictable.
87168 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 9 hours ago, reddogblitz said: Do the opposite. Fire Dennison. Hire McCoy. Keep Hotrod. McCoy was able to design offense just for Tebow's strengths and it got them a playoff win. I'm thinking he could do the same for Hotrod. second!
The Wiz Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 38 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Rainbows and Unicorns Pink fluffy unicorns, dancing on rainbows?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 28, 2017 Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Wiz said: Pink fluffy unicorns, dancing on rainbows? I tried finding a gif of a unicorn farting a rainbow, but the board didn't like the link for the image for whatever reason.
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