Tyler Dunne: "Dennison Stays and Tyrod Goes"

[Comebackkid]

I'd rather we take a qb high and get rid of dennison and keep taylor.  Dennisons play calling goes from avg at best to strange and down right bewildering at times.   

 

[transplantbillsfan]

Dennison blows.

 

So 11/26 rushes by RBs went for zero or negative yards yesterday is Taylor's fault?

 

His playcalling is so predictable it's almost sickening.

 

McDermott wanted McCoy... go get him!

Edited November 28, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[Dadonkadonk]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Dennison is terrible and has done a really poor job. Anyone that thinks differently isn’t paying attention. This offense has been a shell of what it was over the last 2 years with largely the same personnel. The receivers are different but of a similar quality. You can’t for a second convince me that he’s good but everyone else regressed. Rico was Kubiak’s Dennis Thurman. There is no reason that he deserves the opportunity to work with the young QB next year. 

Exactly. There is no reason to change the run blocking scheme with the #1 rushing attack two years in a row.  All he had to do was add some West Coast principles to the passing game.  Arguably he has made TT a better pocket passer.  He goes through his progressions faster, throws to all parts of the field, and does not leave the pocket too early.  But by destroying the run game, Dennison gets them into too many 2nd and 3rd and long situations.  He does not let TT get out of the pocket and he does not let TT run on designed plays often (he has called a few).  TT is sliding more than ever which is good.  I don't know where the deep ball has gone.  Not knowing, I will not say that is on Dennison.  It could be the WRs, the O-line, or even TT for that matter.  

Let's see what happens with a more confident Jones, a healthy Clay, an improving Dawkins, and Mathews in the slot.  It would be nice to see KB with that group but looks like that won't happen.  

[Bangarang]

47 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I don't know. In Denver they were going nowhere with Kyle Orton. They promoted Tebow. OC McCoy put in an offense taking advantage of Tim's unique skill set. They won a playoff game.  I think it would be fun to see what he can do for Hotrod.

 

But then again after the first 3 games this year  his offense stunk. Of course he had Simien, Oswieler, and Lynch for about a 1/2 and rookie HC.

 

Mixed results.

Chargers fans absolutely hate him. Broncos fans also hate him. The Tebow thing was forever ago and he hasn’t done much. It’s a no from me brah

33 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Dennison blows.

 

So 11/26 rushes by RBs went for zero or negative yards yesterday is Taylor's fault?

 

His playcalling is so predictable it's almost sickening.

 

McDermott wanted McCoy... go get him!

Stahp with the McCoy nonsense. He’ll just be another OC you’ll be blaming for not getting the most out of Tyrod and the offense. He’s a name people have heard of and that’s probably the extent of why his name keeps getting mentioned. It certainly isn’t for being very good at his job.

[reddogblitz]

5 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Chargers fans absolutely hate him. Broncos fans also hate him. The Tebow thing was forever ago and he hasn’t done much. It’s a no from me brah

 

No from you is cool.

 

But we wouldn't be hiring him for HC.

 

The Tebow thing was 2011.  Not that long ago unless you're 13.

[transplantbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

Chargers fans absolutely hate him. Broncos fans also hate him. The Tebow thing was forever ago and he hasn’t done much. It’s a no from me brah

Stahp with the McCoy nonsense. He’ll just be another OC you’ll be blaming for not getting the most out of Tyrod and the offense. He’s a name people have heard of and that’s probably the extent of why his name keeps getting mentioned. It certainly isn’t for being very good at his job.

 

Really has nothing to do with Taylor... please refer to above comments about predictable playcalling in reference to handoffs to RBs

 

You're happy with Dennison?

[Bangarang]

Just now, reddogblitz said:

 

No from you is cool.

 

But we wouldn't be hiring him for HC.

 

The Tebow thing was 2011.  Not that long ago unless you're 13.

 

I know we wouldn’t be hiring him for HC and it really doesn’t matter since he still kinda sucks at what he does regardless. But then again, he’s a name people have heard of so git r done I suppose.

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Really has nothing to do with Taylor... please refer to above comments about predictable playcalling in reference to handoffs to RBs

 

You're happy with Dennison?

It actually has a lot to do with Tyrod since we are talking about getting a new OC for the offense that he’s the starting QB for. It impacts him just as much if not more than anyone else.

 

And why would you assume I’m happy with Dennison? What gave you that impression?

[reddogblitz]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

I know we wouldn’t be hiring him for HC and it really doesn’t matter since he still kinda sucks at what he does regardless. But then again, he’s a name people have heard of so git r done I suppose.

 

Please don't accuse me of the name recognition thing. I backed up my reason for thinking he would be good.

 

You think otherwise. Why? Can you provide some specific things he does you think are not good?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BuffaloRush said:

I know we all despise Rick Dennison's offense and are hoping that McDermott pulls the trigger to upgrade the OC position, especially considering the candidates who might be available (Hugh Jackson, Ben McAdoo, Dirk Koetter, Mike McCoy, Bruce Arians etc).  But I was listening To "The Extra Point Show" with Sal Capaccio on WGR and he had Tyler Dunne from The Bleacher Report - formerly Buffalo News Sports (when it was free to read).  

 

I sure hope he is wrong but he believes the decision to bench Tyrod essentially guarantees Dennison's security.  He believes that Tyrod is not a QB that can run his offense, so his theory is that the Bills are going to keep Dennison around and find a new QB for him.  I really don't think his logic makes sense.

 

You have to consider that Dennison was McDermott's 3rd choice as OC (behind McCoy and Childress) and he doesn't have a longstanding relationship to McDermott like other coaches do on his staff.  McDermott is also not stupid - he can't be blind to the fact that the offense as a whole has been ineffective.  Plus, if Dennison was the one behind starting Peterman, as speculated by many, then it doesn't say much about his judgement.  Like it or not, if the Bills do take a QB in the draft the success of that position essentially could determine the fate of McDermott and Beane in 4 years.  Do you really want your fate in the hands of Rick Dennison?  

 

You make a lot of tough calls in regarding to hiring your staff in the NFL.  I am hoping McDermott and Beane are smart enough to see better options available.  For what it's worth, audio can be found below.  The Dennison talk is at the 20 minute mark:

 

http://www.wgr550.com/media/audio-channel/11-27-tyler-dunne-bleacher-report-sal-capaccio

 

<script data-cx-item-id="121186945" data-cx-widget="10321" data-cx-api-key="4qtw7wGvXs6KB0n4GjDPMRQjMjNBkyIw" src="//embed.widget.cx/amd.js"></script>

 

 

Dunne is pretty astute.  It's hard for a head coach to be ruthless and disloyal to your assistants in the NFL.  These are "his guys".

 

Fans can make a pretty good case that it goes well beyond Tyrod - that the routes aren't well designed to exploit the defense, that Dennison is slow to adjust to coverage, that the blocking schemes don't seem to work for an OL and RB that led the league in rushing last year.  Then there's the peculiar decision to start Peterman against a pressure-intense OL without giving him any help from the gameplan.

 

Consider George Edwards and Wannstache.  Gailey's decision to stick with Edwards for 2 years then bring in Wannstache instead of getting out a broom, probably cost the Bills a shot to improve and ultimately cost Gailey his job.  Is Dennison truly the Ditch you want to die in, McDermott?

[transplantbillsfan]

56 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

It actually has a lot to do with Tyrod since we are talking about getting a new OC for the offense that he’s the starting QB for. It impacts him just as much if not more than anyone else.

 

And why would you assume I’m happy with Dennison? What gave you that impression?

 

I don't know. I must be sorely mistaken.

 

Forgive me

Edited November 28, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[Thurman#1]

I don't think they were specifically saying that it was an either/or situation. At one point Dunne said, "The Bills want a guy who can work from the pocket ..." So it was more that Dunne was saying that Tyrod is going than specifically that Dennison was staying. He did appear to be saying they were incompatible, but I don't think they made the leap that because Tyrod is going, that shows Dennison is staying. 

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Dennison blows.

 

So 11/26 rushes by RBs went for zero or negative yards yesterday is Taylor's fault?

 

His playcalling is so predictable it's almost sickening.

 

McDermott wanted McCoy... go get him!

 

 

Not primarily Tyrod's fault, no. But is he maybe part of it? Absolutely.

 

Teams are probably less scared of Tyrod than they are of Shady breaking one. They likely have more resources and game-planning time devoted to stopping the run game.

 

Know whose play-calling was unbelievably predictable? Marchibroda. Teams knew what was coming, they just couldn't stop it. An awful lot of the time what is called play-calling problems are really execution problems. That's not just on the Bills, it's in football generally.

[Coach Tuesday]

If that's the case, McDermott will be out of a job by 2019.  It wouldn't be the first time that a young HC made the mistake of tying himself to a fellow staff member and ended up taking the fall for it.  McD is stubborn and he's loyal, and he probably feels like he has to make a point about sticking with the guys who followed him to his first HC gig.  The thing is, the best head coaches are absolutely ruthless when it comes to holding their reports accountable.  McD might have to learn this the hard way.

6 hours ago, Rico said:

Hack.

 

He is predicting it, not advocating for it.  When did you become such a troll?  You used to be beautiful.

[WildBills]

Dennison is so flipping bad. He needs to go way before Tyrod. 

[GunnerBill]

Dennison is undoubtedly part of the offensive regression, and I thought he called a pretty bad game Sunday.... but I still think he is being seen by fans as a bit of a scapegoat.  

 

The inconvenient truth is that ANY offensive coordinator would have had trouble replicating the success of Greg Roman's run scheme. Why? Because Roman is the best run game coordinator in the league.  They have been down their best lineman, two others are showing signs of ageing and a fourth is being inserted into the lineup by an o-line coach that Dennison didn't even hire.  Their receiving options early in the season were really bad and they have had average play from the Quarterback position.  I did say throughout the offseason (and was shouted down) that I did not see this offense as a fit for Tyrod. The fact that he plays better out of the shotgun was always likely to be an issue.... it was an issue when Kubiak and Dennison arrived in Denver and found Peyton Manning in situ.  Once you start putting your QB back in the shotgun so much it takes away from the construct of the zone stretch scheme. Could Dennison have done more to adjust for that?  Sure.  But if you don't want him to run the offense that he has been immersed in during his career coaching in this league then don't hire him. 

 

Having said all that, which is not to defend Dennison as such but to provide a more balanced and nuanced assessment of his performance, if he was behind the decision to go to Nathan Peterman at the point that we did he should be fired.  The kid clearly, clearly was not ready and it was a reckless decision that long term may have consequences that haven't yet revealed themselves.  It was inevitable post the New Orleans game that at some point they would want to see what they had there.... but the timing was just wrong.  

 

As for what alternatives do the Bills have if they were to move on from Rick Dennison..... please not Mike McCoy.  I don't know where is super reputation comes from, but any reputation he did have left should have been obliterated by the mess in Denver this year and the sudden emergence of the Chargers offense without him.  I think they need to choose a coordinator based on what type of Quarterback they intend to pick.  

[PolishDave]

6 hours ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Exactly. There is no reason to change the run blocking scheme with the #1 rushing attack two years in a row.  All he had to do was add some West Coast principles to the passing game.  Arguably he has made TT a better pocket passer.  He goes through his progressions faster, throws to all parts of the field, and does not leave the pocket too early.  But by destroying the run game, Dennison gets them into too many 2nd and 3rd and long situations.  He does not let TT get out of the pocket and he does not let TT run on designed plays often (he has called a few).  TT is sliding more than ever which is good.  I don't know where the deep ball has gone.  Not knowing, I will not say that is on Dennison.  It could be the WRs, the O-line, or even TT for that matter.  

Let's see what happens with a more confident Jones, a healthy Clay, an improving Dawkins, and Mathews in the slot.  It would be nice to see KB with that group but looks like that won't happen.  

 

In regards to the deep ball, Dennison historically doesn't like to throw deep.   It was mentioned after he was hired as OC.    The percentage of times his offenses throw deep are very low.  The hope was that he would change his tendency and see that extending plays to go deep is exactly the thing that this QB and team was good at doing.     So you can add that to the stack of Dennison's faults.

[Buddo]

Someone mentioned Fairchild and Jauron earlier in the thread. If you remember those years, then Fairchild was actually a competent OC, but he had crap to work with, coupled with Jauron's desire to be ultra conservative offensively.

 

You only have to look at the OCs we had after Fairchild, under Jauron, to realize that Fairchild wasn't the problem. Yet fans pretty much hated Fairchild, and wanted him gone.

 

A concern here would be that Dennison isn't anywhere near as bad as we are making out, and its as much about what he has to work with, somewhat like the situation with Fairchild, and that he's made the scapegoat before being able to fully implement what he wants to do.

 

McDermott strikes me as a HC who will be pretty clear how he wants things to be, so if you are chasing Dennison to run him out of town, you should also be chasing McDermott.

 

This is a very weird season, that is still to play out. After last week, it seems it could go every which way still, from a playoff spot, to another collapse.

 

While I'm not overly enamoured of all of the moves McBean have made, I still think that both they, and the coaching staff generally (I might make an exception for Castillo), need to be given another year, at least.

[nucci]

8 hours ago, BillsVet said:

The chances that the HC, who has already went back on his QB decision in year 1, would then also fire the OC after one season is a stretch. 

 

Dennison runs the scheme that McDermott wants. Coordinators, even the one on the HC's side of the ball, aren't doing the big picture (i.e scheme) thing on their own. 

 

This reminds me a little of when Steve Fairchild was OC for DJ in 06-07. Everyone clamored for Fairchild to dial up more long passes and it didn't really happen. It was a lot of run-run-pass type stuff we see from this coaching staff. And, much of this was DJ's desire to have a ball control offense paired with that Cover 2 defense. 

 

 

well, that's a problem

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If he really said what the OP claims, then....no.  

Dunne is good.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Just now, dave mcbride said:

Dunne is good.

He definitely upgraded

[Kirby Jackson]

41 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Dennison is undoubtedly part of the offensive regression, and I thought he called a pretty bad game Sunday.... but I still think he is being seen by fans as a bit of a scapegoat.  

 

The inconvenient truth is that ANY offensive coordinator would have had trouble replicating the success of Greg Roman's run scheme. Why? Because Roman is the best run game coordinator in the league.  They have been down their best lineman, two others are showing signs of ageing and a fourth is being inserted into the lineup by an o-line coach that Dennison didn't even hire.  Their receiving options early in the season were really bad and they have had average play from the Quarterback position.  I did say throughout the offseason (and was shouted down) that I did not see this offense as a fit for Tyrod. The fact that he plays better out of the shotgun was always likely to be an issue.... it was an issue when Kubiak and Dennison arrived in Denver and found Peyton Manning in situ.  Once you start putting your QB back in the shotgun so much it takes away from the construct of the zone stretch scheme. Could Dennison have done more to adjust for that?  Sure.  But if you don't want him to run the offense that he has been immersed in during his career coaching in this league then don't hire him. 

 

Having said all that, which is not to defend Dennison as such but to provide a more balanced and nuanced assessment of his performance, if he was behind the decision to go to Nathan Peterman at the point that we did he should be fired.  The kid clearly, clearly was not ready and it was a reckless decision that long term may have consequences that haven't yet revealed themselves.  It was inevitable post the New Orleans game that at some point they would want to see what they had there.... but the timing was just wrong.  

 

As for what alternatives do the Bills have if they were to move on from Rick Dennison..... please not Mike McCoy.  I don't know where is super reputation comes from, but any reputation he did have left should have been obliterated by the mess in Denver this year and the sudden emergence of the Chargers offense without him.  I think they need to choose a coordinator based on what type of Quarterback they intend to pick.  

Good post as always GB. 

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Dunne is good.

He was a great addition for the year that he was there. Now it’s back to these guys: