SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, TheTruthHurts said: He is Alex Smith. The problem with Tyrod is we all know how far Alex Smith takes you. The key with having a QB like Alex Smith is you always should be developing a talented QB behind him. That is exactly how they told it on the radio this AM. Take out the QB name and you couldn't tell which safe check down QB they were referring to. up until they mentioned MVP talk in September.
bigduke6 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jobot said: If it wasn't clear before... the Peterman experiment has shown Tyrod's actual value. I'd would typically guarantee that he get's a big contract in the offseason, but I have no idea what teams will be in the market. i disagree with this. Peterman played 1 half of 1 game for his career. You have no idea what he is or isnt at this point, regardless of how he stunk it up.. The league knows exactly what Taylor is.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I agree with this. Although I'm not sure why Taylor would want to stay. Benching 2 years in a row and showing obvious signs they aren't viewing him as a long term answer. It took McDermott until Wednesday to name him starter after Peterman had 5 first half INT's. McDermott was still deciding after on which QB after that disaster. and yet some fans fail to see the pattern.
bigduke6 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Well said OP. It seems to me the OC is much more of an issue than the QB at this point. And there is a group of the fan base that is just senseless. Not sure what you get out of hating on your team every single week. we keep going through OCs, the only constant is the player. results are the same, must be all those OCs. all those guys who spend entire careers eating drinking football, tyring to keep their jobs by succeeding, keep their reputations in the positive instead of the failure catagory. yet, its not the player 1
Billsfan1972 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, bigduke6 said: we keep going through OCs, the only constant is the player. results are the same, must be all those OCs. all those guys who spend entire careers eating drinking football, tyring to keep their jobs by succeeding, keep their reputations in the positive instead of the failure catagory. yet, its not the player What did Taylor miss yesterday......... Waiting 2 hours for an answer.
ProcessTheTrust Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 TT stepped in this week and did what he does best - played like a great back up who if he had to step in for an elite starter for a few weeks, he won't blow your season. Beyond that - I can't believe it's still an argument. Everyone short of the true "haters" all wish he had a higher ceiling. Talent wise, he does, but for whatever reason, he's like the elephant who thinks he's restrained by a tiny peg. If he could ever get past whatever mental block he has, he'd be a star.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: There's always Cleveland. and Denver and AZ and Giants and Jags and Indy and Baltimore and Chicago and Washington maybe if Cousins leaves SF and another trade is made.
Royale with Cheese Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: What did Taylor miss yesterday......... Waiting 2 hours for an answer. How many of us have game film less than 24 hours after a game? So since no one has access to it on a message board, in your mind that means he didn't miss anything?
T-Bomb Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 11 minutes ago, teef said: money? is there anyone willing to pay him more and declare him a likely starter than the bills? you may be completely right though...he may be done with buffalo. There is a reason he took a pay cut, his agent could not find anything better for him... Tyrod has done nothing this season to improve his stock from last offseason.
SoTier Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 48 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: What exactly will it take for you to get it through your thick skull that draft position and success are not absolutely correlated. How many QBs do you have to see that were drafted in later rounds, or not even drafted at all, to make you realize it's about drafting the right guy, and not just a first round guy? Just looking historically: Brady (round 6) Montana (round 3) Warner (FA) Moon (not drafted) Brees (2nd round) All three HOFers or sure bets for the HOF. YOU look historically! The only QBs from outside the first round to have any kind of success as starters who were drafted between 2000 and 2014 are: Tom Brady, 6th 2000 Drew Brees, 2nd 2001 David Garrard, 4th 2002 Matt Schaub, 3rd 2004 Kyle Orton, 4th 2005 Derek Anderson, 6th 2005 Matt Cassel, 7th 2005 Ryan Fitzpatrick, 7th 2005 Matt Flynn, 7th 2008 Tyrod Taylor, 6th 2011 Russell Wilson, 3rd 2012 Kirk Cousins, 4th 2012 That's 12 QBs that range in success from the GOAT to minimally acceptable starters out of 153 QBs drafted after round 1 in those 15 years. That's 8% success rate. Only Brady, Brees, and Wilson are truly top tier QBs. Schaub and Cousins are probably a step down from the top three so that's 5 good/excellent QBs (3%) found after round 1 in this century. Moreover, Brees, Wilson, and Cousins were all considered to be either too short or too slight to be successful NFL QBs. Brady was a skinny kid who got caught up in athletic department politics and had limited starts at Michigan despite playing better than the starting QB whom the AD insisted start. Of the rest, Taylor is easily the best ... and he shares the same problem that Cousins has: he's considered rather slight to play QB.
teef Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, T-Bomb said: There is a reason he took a pay cut, his agent could not find anything better for him... Tyrod has done nothing this season to improve his stock from last offseason. i agree, which is why he could potentially stay here next year. again, i'm fine with that, as long as a qb is drafted this year to groom.
Billsfan1972 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said: How many of us have game film less than 24 hours after a game? So since no one has access to it on a message board, in your mind that means he didn't miss anything? In every game you can probably find 10-15 missed plays and open receivers....... That's a given. Don't need game film watching yesterday with my 2 eyes. The OC put him in bad positions as he does most games and when they were in favorable positions it was usually a draw that didn't get the first down...... Go to the play by play and read for yourself.......
oldmanfan Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 1 minute ago, SoTier said: YOU look historically! The only QBs from outside the first round to have any kind of success as starters who were drafted between 2000 and 2014 are: Tom Brady, 6th 2000 Drew Brees, 2nd 2001 David Garrard, 4th 2002 Matt Schaub, 3rd 2004 Kyle Orton, 4th 2005 Derek Anderson, 6th 2005 Matt Cassel, 7th 2005 Ryan Fitzpatrick, 7th 2005 Matt Flynn, 7th 2008 Tyrod Taylor, 6th 2011 Russell Wilson, 3rd 2012 Kirk Cousins, 4th 2012 That's 12 QBs that range in success from the GOAT to minimally acceptable starters out of 153 QBs drafted after round 1 in those 15 years. That's 8% success rate. Only Brady, Brees, and Wilson are truly top tier QBs. Schaub and Cousins are probably a step down from the top three so that's 5 good/excellent QBs (3%) found after round 1 in this century. Moreover, Brees, Wilson, and Cousins were all considered to be either too short or too slight to be successful NFL QBs. Brady was a skinny kid who got caught up in athletic department politics and had limited starts at Michigan despite playing better than the starting QB whom the AD insisted start. Of the rest, Taylor is easily the best ... and he shares the same problem that Cousins has: he's considered rather slight to play QB. Not a bad list. Now for you, let's also look at the number of first round QBs that never amounted to a hill of beans. A partial list: David Carr Jamarcus Russell Tim Couch Akili Green Joey Harrington Vince Young Matt Leinert Rick Mirer And I could go on with this list. What is it going to take to get through your thick skull, as with the OP, that there is no perfect correlation between draft round and success. as I have now said several times, there is a general link between drafting a QB in round 1 and success in the league. The OP implied that unless you draft a guy in round 1 it doesn't work, and that is nonsense. Because many guys drafted in round 1 don't pan out, and many drafted below round 1 do. correlation coefficients are ranked from +1 to - 1. A + one indicates a perfect positive correlation between two variables, and a score of -1 indicates a perfect negative correlation. I indicated above that it may be more a correlation of 0; that is, there is equal probability of a positive or negative correlation. without doing an exhaustive analysis, I would put the correlation between picking a QB in round 1 with long term success at the position maybe around +3-+4. Some positive correlation, but certainly not near perfect. People around here sometimes talk about statistics without actually understanding statistics.
xRUSHx Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: In every game you can probably find 10-15 missed plays and open receivers....... That's a given. Don't need game film watching yesterday with my 2 eyes. The OC put him in bad positions as he does most games and when they were in favorable positions it was usually a draw that didn't get the first down...... Go to the play by play and read for yourself....... OC #4 is not going to make Tyrod a better QB, OC#4 will just be another OC on the hot seat after one season after scrapping his scheme to a Taylor made scheme. The OC draws up plays and Tyrod takes the safest route every time. IMO Tyrod covers his stats over pushing for the score.
Royale with Cheese Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: In every game you can probably find 10-15 missed plays and open receivers....... That's a given. Don't need game film watching yesterday with my 2 eyes. The OC put him in bad positions as he does most games and when they were in favorable positions it was usually a draw that didn't get the first down...... Go to the play by play and read for yourself....... I guess you think you're the greatest broadcast viewing fan ever. Don't need game film, just the broadcast view. I also don't trust your eyes at all because you have admitted you're petty so everything you say is 100% bias and hypocritical. The bolded is a complete BS statement.
SoTier Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, bigduke6 said: i disagree with this. Peterman played 1 half of 1 game for his career. You have no idea what he is or isnt at this point, regardless of how he stunk it up.. The league knows exactly what Taylor is. Actually, we do. At best, he is not ready to play in the NFL and at worst he's no better than the TC fodder he played against in the preseason. He is nowhere near the supposedly "pro ready" QB that his fanboys claimed he was. He's not nearly as good a backup as Jeff Tuel was in 2013, so he's not even ready to be an NFL backup QB.
T-Bomb Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, teef said: i agree, which is why he could potentially stay here next year. again, i'm fine with that, as long as a qb is drafted this year to groom. I'd be fine with that as well. I have no issue with Tyrod starting next season if we have a succession plan. I'd also have no problem if Peterman sees the field again this season so there is more intel on the" QB of the future" decision.
bigduke6 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, SoTier said: Actually, we do. At best, he is not ready to play in the NFL and at worst he's no better than the TC fodder he played against in the preseason. He is nowhere near the supposedly "pro ready" QB that his fanboys claimed he was. He's not nearly as good a backup as Jeff Tuel was in 2013, so he's not even ready to be an NFL backup QB. so one half of football, admittedly, an all time terrible half of football, means that Peterman is a back up or worse caliber QB? is that what your saying? youve seen all he can do, in one fricken half of football? plz tell me thats not what youre saying. Edited November 27, 2017 by bigduke6 1
oldmanfan Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, bigduke6 said: so one half of football, admittedly, an all time terrible half of football, means that Petermans career is over? is that what your saying? youve seen all he can do, in one fricken half of football? plz tell me thats now what youre saying. Just another example of how he has no clue about how to analyze things.
dpberr Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 I suppose I'm a fan. I'm not in love with him as much as the national media is but I think he's a class act, 100% pro and is talented. I think what you see is what you get. It's up to the Bills on whether that's what they want and how to put him in the best position to win knowing teams will copy the Jets and Saints strategy. I think his growth as a passer has been limited by the mediocre "I've always done it this way" talent at offensive coordinator in Buffalo that's comfortable resting on their past performance.
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