THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Back on Track

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I think I figured it out. 

 

Justin Houston there, 50, didn't bite on the fake. He is just looking right at Shady. Shady was supposed to go that way but 50 ruined that plan, Shady sees this, and runs the other way.

 

That is what I think happened there.

 

Nice analysis.  I agree.

 

But I think the point is that the Bills went to all that trouble to complete a pass five yards behind the line of scrimmage.   Taylor is standing all alone with a good deal of time to look downfield.  Seven defenders are clustered in this picture.   In other words, the Bills did a great job designing a play to get the defense out of position, and then threw the ball into the teeth of the defense.   That play should have been designed to go down field.   But these guys - Dennison and McDermott, are so run-oriented that even when they create motion that gives the wideouts a lot of open field to run in, they still want to throw the ball to the running back. 

 

More so than any other play (except maybe the 3rd and 6 run), this play demonstrates for me how run-oriented, ridiculously run-oriented, these coaches are.

 

Think about it - this play design is to pull offensive linemen to the right, start McCoy to the right, intending to draw defenders. (And remember, these are defenders who've been prepared all week to go where Shady goes.)  Then, when you've succeeded in getting three quarters of the defense to over-shift to the offensive right, you throw the ball there.    

 

Yes, maybe if that one defender isn't on top of the play you get Shady to the edge and up the sideline with a convoy.   Yes, it's just a play that didn't work.   But it's one of the more creative plays the Bills ran, and it's a play designed to complete a pass five yards behind the line of scrimmage. 

3 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

One more thing and I will stop. Lawson is not playing well in this game. He appears to be quite slow. 

 

I can sum it up in one picture. This is a sweep on 2nd and 5 and it went for 10 or 15 yards I forget but it went a good long ways.

 

Lawson is the blue and white arrow.

 

The pulling linemen just ignored him. They ran right by him and so did the running back.

 

They ignored him like he wasn't even there and they were right to do so.

 

Well, in Lawson's defense on this play (not in general), if that's Tyreek Hill with ball, and I think it is, the play likely was designed to take advantage of Hill's speed more that Lawson's lack of it.  The Chiefs didn't block him because they didn't have to.   Practically no defensive end in that position has the lateral quickness and/or forward burst to hold the edge against Hill at full speed. 

 

NFL play design is all about getting mismatches at the point of attack, and the Chiefs got one here.   One technique that seems to be used with increasing frequency is relying on tendencies and leaving guys unblocked.   

 

Lawson certainly isn't lighting it up, but I don't think this play demonstrates the problem. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

41 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Nice analysis.  I agree.

 

But I think the point is that the Bills went to all that trouble to complete a pass five yards behind the line of scrimmage.   Taylor is standing all alone with a good deal of time to look downfield.  Seven defenders are clustered in this picture.   In other words, the Bills did a great job designing a play to get the defense out of position, and then threw the ball into the teeth of the defense.   That play should have been designed to go down field.   But these guys - Dennison and McDermott, are so run-oriented that even when they create motion that gives the wideouts a lot of open field to run in, they still want to throw the ball to the running back. 

 

More so than any other play (except maybe the 3rd and 6 run), this play demonstrates for me how run-oriented, ridiculously run-oriented, these coaches are.

 

Think about it - this play design is to pull offensive linemen to the right, start McCoy to the right, intending to draw defenders. (And remember, these are defenders who've been prepared all week to go where Shady goes.)  Then, when you've succeeded in getting three quarters of the defense to over-shift to the offensive right, you throw the ball there.    

 

Yes, maybe if that one defender isn't on top of the play you get Shady to the edge and up the sideline with a convoy.   Yes, it's just a play that didn't work.   But it's one of the more creative plays the Bills ran, and it's a play designed to complete a pass five yards behind the line of scrimmage. 

Well, in Lawson's defense on this play (not in general), if that's Tyreek Hill with ball, and I think it is, the play likely was designed to take advantage of Hill's speed more that Lawson's lack of it.  The Chiefs didn't block him because they didn't have to.   Practically no defensive end in that position has the lateral quickness and/or forward burst to hold the edge against Hill at full speed. 

 

NFL play design is all about getting mismatches at the point of attack, and the Chiefs got one here.   One technique that seems to be used with increasing frequency is relying on tendencies and leaving guys unblocked.   

 

Lawson certainly isn't lighting it up, but I don't think this play demonstrates the problem. 

Your point taken on the first part. They sure did go far to set up a run play. And kind of risky too. 

I won't disagree. But I do understand why they are greedy to get wood and richie out on front of McCoy any way they can.

 

As for Lawson, well, I don't want to watch that play again. It made me shocked and sad. He was so lumbering slow. I will just go ahead and take  your word for it pal.. It is the easier path. But from what I saw, which is a very limited sample I know, but from that, I see a tackle not an end. In the Bills shoes I would be thinking about putting 20 pounds on him off season and sticking him where Marcell used to be.

 

I am going to quit the all 20 as soon as I watch this game to save money. (All 20 hasnt come up yet)But next year I think I will just get it from the start. Personally I don't think I really even see the game til I see that. It is sort of like watching through a paper towel cardboard tube without it. On the other hand it takes a good bit of time.

 

But I hope to watch this next game before my pay deadline hits because I think Tyrod is maybe getting a bad rap on this game. (and for those who don't know, I am not a Tyrod advocate. But I do like to know the truth of things when I can)

Edited November 27, 2017 by BadLandsMeanie

[Foxx]

18 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The Rockpile Review – by Shaw66

 

Back on Track

 

The Bills beat the Chiefs in Kansas City on Sunday. ... 

 

... Anyone watch the Rams beat the Saints today?   Nursing a 10-point lead against an explosive offense, Goff was throwing the ball all over the field.  Not the Bills.  The hopelessly conservative offense, and consequently the hopelessly predictable offense, runs when it should run and runs when it should pass.  When it passes, it passes to running backs.  

 

Taylor had another nice game.   Not great, but enough to win.   The Bills put him on the move more than in recent weeks, and as a consequence he wasn’t getting trapped in the pocket.   He threw well, often with nice touch.   He wasn’t as accurate as he should be; the poor throw to O’Leary cost the Bills a critical first down late in the game, and he missed some other throws over the middle.   But as usual, his completion percentage was in the mid-60s, as usual he threw for under 200 yards and as usual, he had no giveaways.  ...

 

... The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

the two paragraphs seem to be in direct conflict with one another.

 

is it, not the Bills or is it, not Tyrod?

 

i can tell you one thing for sure, if we had Goff, we sure as hell wouldn't be checking down all game long.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Foxx

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Foxx said:

the two paragraphs seem to be in direct conflict with one another.

 

is it, not the Bills or is it, not Tyrod? i can tell you one thing for sure, if we had Goff, we sure as hell wouldn't be checking down all game long.

Goff would be getting killed if he were on the Bills.

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Goff would be getting killed if he were on the Bills.

he would know how to step up in the pocket to buy himself more time. whereby making his o-line look better.

[Kelly the Dog]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

he would know how to step up in the pocket to buy himself more time. whereby making his o-line look better.

There is no pocket to step up into. The Bills pocket collapses from the outside in. Often at the same time.

[Figster]

22 minutes ago, Foxx said:

he would know how to step up in the pocket to buy himself more time. whereby making his o-line look better.

I get where your coming from, but its hard to step up into the ass end of your own lineman and on coming Defenders.

 

Myself personally, I've probably been putting to much blame on Taylor, but after seeing Peterman run through the grinder I'm of the mind Tyrod Taylor might be the only QB in the league elusive enough to play behind our Oline.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Figster

[Foxx]

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

There is no pocket to step up into. The Bills pocket collapses from the outside in. Often at the same time.

erm..... isn't that generally how a pocket collapses? i don't know that i've seen a pocket collapse from the inside out.

[Gray Beard]

4 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Sort of a joke, but I get the feeling Tyrod holds all the cards. Would love to see him audible his own offense (you don't think he wants to get that 3rd and 2 himself after missing that YAC to O'Leary?).

 

But by all accounts Tyrod is the immaculate professional, as such he will follow Dennison to the ends of the Earth until they are both booted.

I was watching the Steelers-Packers game last night.  Big Ben would audible and move guys around until the play clock got down to 1 second.  The color announcer would talk about how he was keying on the defense to change the play.  Think about Brady, Peyton, etc.  All the really elite QBs will audible and move players around and end up calling a lot of plays themselves.  Tyrod is not that type of QB.  I would think that he has been in the league long enough to know how to do that.  Maybe it takes a few years in a system for everyone to know what they can and should do. Maybe since this is the first year for Dennison and Tyrod, along with most of the receivers, they don't have the luxury of knowing the keys and making the correct audible adjustments.  I have a feeling that Dennison and Tyrod will never get to that point.

[Foxx]

14 minutes ago, Figster said:

I get where your coming from, but its hard to step up into the ass end of your own lineman and on coming Defenders.

 

Myself personally, I've probably been putting to much blame on Taylor, but after seeing Peterman run through the grinder I'm of the mind Tyrod Taylor might be the only QB in the league that can play behind our Oline.

it is quite possible Fig but i don't know that the Peterman debacle is a true representation of the teams play. who are these Bills? the ones who looked like they didn't even belong in the NFL in the 3 game stretch against the Jets, Saints and Chargers? or the Bills who beat the Jets in the home opener and the Falcons, on the road and played the Panthers toe to toe? something very odd about this years team. i don't believe they are a playoff team, they might get there but .... 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Foxx

[Beast]

That’s the NFL product, especially in the AFC. You have the Pats, way behind them the Steelers, and behind the Steelers 13 other teams you could throw in a hat and pick one out. Then there are the Browns.

 

Being the #3 seed in the AFC playoffs is no big shake. 

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Here’s a crazy thought I had after yesterday’s game:  Is EJ Gaines a difference-maker for this team?

As much as I hated the trade, we might not win that game if Gaines doesn't make 2 timely plays in a row on the last drive.

[Figster]

14 minutes ago, Foxx said:

it is quite possible Fig but i don't know that the Peterman debacle is a true representation of the teams play. who are these Bills? the ones who looked like they didn't even belong in the NFL in the 3 game stretch against the Jets, Saints and Chargers? or the Bills who beat the Jets in the home opener and the Falcons, on the road and played the Panthers toe to toe? something very odd about this years team. i don't believe they are a playoff team, they might get there but .... 

Myself personally, with so much talent removed from the roster it finally started catching up with the team.  The Bills by all intentional purposes are a tight knit group and team chemistry takes a hit when high profile players are removed.

 

refocus...

Edited November 27, 2017 by Figster

[Foxx]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

Myself personally, with so much talent removed from the roster it finally started catching up with the team.  The Bills by all intentional purposes are a tight knit group and team chemistry takes a hit when high profile players are removed.

 

refocus...

you might have something there with Dareus being traded. that is afterall when the downward spiral began.

 

have they refocused, let's hope so.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Foxx

[Kelly the Dog]

17 minutes ago, Foxx said:

erm..... isn't that generally how a pocket collapses? i don't know that i've seen a pocket collapse from the inside out.

I meant that not always, but usually when Taylor steps up in the pocket, the middle has collapsed in front of him as well. So there is no room for him to step and throw, which is usually when he starts his jitterbugging trying to escape.

 

Yesterday there plays when he had some decent time but that was because Dennison kept 8-9 guys in. There were only 2-3 out on the pattern so 2-3 guys were covering every receiver. Trent green mentioned this at least once.

 

I just watched the first half again. He threw a ton of very good to great passes and he missed a few. He hit several players right on the dead run including Zay twice, Clay, Cadet, Shady and DT. Six times in one half he did something he cannot and never does. He threw to players who weren't open including a great third down pass to Clay over the middle for a first. He had an incredible third and long escape and dart to Shady on the run for a first. He threw one bomb which was a good pass and Zay seemed to not track it but it was right where it's either a TD or incompletion.

[Foxx]

19 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I meant that not always, but usually when Taylor steps up in the pocket, the middle has collapsed in front of him as well. So there is no room for him to step and throw, which is usually when he starts his jitterbugging trying to escape.

 

Yesterday there plays when he had some decent time but that was because Dennison kept 8-9 guys in. There were only 2-3 out on the pattern so 2-3 guys were covering every receiver. Trent green mentioned this at least once.

 

I just watched the first half again. He threw a ton of very good to great passes and he missed a few. He hit several players right on the dead run including Zay twice, Clay, Cadet, Shady and DT. Six times in one half he did something he cannot and never does. He threw to players who weren't open including a great third down pass to Clay over the middle for a first. He had an incredible third and long escape and dart to Shady on the run for a first. He threw one bomb which was a good pass and Zay seemed to not track it but it was right where it's either a TD or incompletion.

i've watched Tyrod for pret near three years now. i can't tell you the amount of times i have seen him jitterbug out of a developing pocket all because he gets happy feet, feels phantom pressure when all he needs to do is step up in the pocket. you can't tell me that that doesn't have an effect on the O-line and what they try to do. if they know he is going to go all jitterbug on them and they don't know where he is going to be, so they don't know if they need to push the guy left, right... or whichever way. hard to develop a pocket on a consistent basis when you have that problem.

[Woodman19]

2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

You mean me?

No one in particular, just how everyone has expectations of having a premium offensive and defensive unit with a rookie head coach and how he has to make us a Superbowl contender right now otherwise he needs to be fired.  Failure in any area means the coordinators or head coach is responsible because the team talent is obviously top notch.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Your point taken on the first part. They sure did go far to set up a run play. And kind of risky too. 

I won't disagree. But I do understand why they are greedy to get wood and richie out on front of McCoy any way they can.

 

As for Lawson, well, I don't want to watch that play again. It made me shocked and sad. He was so lumbering slow. I will just go ahead and take  your word for it pal.. It is the easier path. But from what I saw, which is a very limited sample I know, but from that, I see a tackle not an end. In the Bills shoes I would be thinking about putting 20 pounds on him off season and sticking him where Marcell used to be.

 

I am going to quit the all 20 as soon as I watch this game to save money. (All 20 hasnt come up yet)But next year I think I will just get it from the start. Personally I don't think I really even see the game til I see that. It is sort of like watching through a paper towel cardboard tube without it. On the other hand it takes a good bit of time.

 

But I hope to watch this next game before my pay deadline hits because I think Tyrod is maybe getting a bad rap on this game. (and for those who don't know, I am not a Tyrod advocate. But I do like to know the truth of things when I can)

 

As I said, I wasn't defending Lawson so much as suggesting that that particular play may have been how the Chiefs would run it against most defenses because Tyreek Hill is THAT fast.   

 

Moving him to tackle is an interesting idea.   The games about speed, and he'd be a quick tackle rather than a slow end. 

[BadLandsMeanie]

46 minutes ago, Woodman19 said:

No one in particular, just how everyone has expectations of having a premium offensive and defensive unit with a rookie head coach and how he has to make us a Superbowl contender right now otherwise he needs to be fired.  Failure in any area means the coordinators or head coach is responsible because the team talent is obviously top notch.

Oh. Well that doesn't describe me I am pretty sure! Thanks for the extra info.

27 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

As I said, I wasn't defending Lawson so much as suggesting that that particular play may have been how the Chiefs would run it against most defenses because Tyreek Hill is THAT fast.   

 

Moving him to tackle is an interesting idea.   The games about speed, and he'd be a quick tackle rather than a slow end. 

That little guy was VERY fast and very shifty. Is he little? I don't know but  he moved like a little guy.,

[Coach Tuesday]

Count me among those who thinks Lawson will be moved inside next year (and then moved to the bench and then moved off of the roster).

 

OTOH I thought Adolphus had a decent game yesterday.