Kelly the Dog Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 You do have to give them some credit for trading away their deep threat and then two months later realizing there was no deep threat, so they made another trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: The only problem I had was trading for him at all. He's just not that good, he made a play today and good for him. I just disliked the trade to begin with. I agree about the trade. But even then, you just gave up a solid DB. Shouldn't you go ahead and try to utilize the guy to the utmost? This WR coach and OC suck. Both need to go. I also wouldn't mind a complete offensive side house cleaning. Also check out Virgil's summary: I completely agree on points 8) and 9). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 15 minutes ago, cale said: Man, my bad. Most of the people on this board would have been able to get at what I meant. But for those unable to connect the dots…let me help. This staff is throwing stuff at the wall at hopes it sticks. The only thing they’re sure of is that they don’t want the guys they didn’t draft to remain in Buffalo. Even if they are talented. I’m pretty sure Tyrod, as much as he is a fit for this team right now, is gone by next season. I honestly don’t have of a problem with that as long as they have a better option in the wings. But I’m also pretty sure, this administration, will look for all kinds of excuses to ship out McCoy as well. Conversely, if they drafted or brought a guy in either while here or in Carolina, the guy gets more than the benefit of the doubt until he craps the bed. Take Zay Jones and Mike Tolbert. They used the same “process” to ship out: Watkins Woods Gillislee Gimore Dareus Williams (Denver, now Saints) They’re also using the same thought process on Tyrod (which is TT isn’t productive so we need someone else in there). The truth is TT isn’t productive in *this* system. Dennison should be coaching for his life. Today’s win shouldn’t change any of that. Not having Miller and Reilly in there is also criminal. But in either case, regardless of whether they bring someone in or let them go, they are unable to maximize the guy’s potential. Kaelin Clay is an example of that. He was signed by Beane while he was in Carolina. So they traded Kevon Seymour, a solid DB for Clay. That should have never happened. All the while having Brandon Reilly in the wings. But while they had Clay they were unable to utilize him in an optimal/productive way. We can argue as to how productive he’s been at Carolina. But there is little doubt that the Panthers staff has gotten more out of him than our staff. So we gave up a DB and lost a WR, maybe a marginally productive one, but it’s still dumb. The “Process” should look at how the systems they’ve installed are not being productive or getting the most of the players. Both on offense and defense. Of the players shipped out, I would say the Gilmore thing was a good move. I’m also glad Dareus isn’t here. I think that was a win-win for both sides. But everyone else has been fairly productive elsewhere or in Buffalo. This administration is more interested in scapegoating the players they did not personally coach, sign or draft. They undervalue those players and overvalue the ones with which they have a personal history. But in spite of that they have not gotten what they can out of the players that they do have on the team. 3 of those names on your list were not shipped out. Woods, Gilmore and Gillislee. It was feporter ling before McDermott got here that Whaley and co. were not willing to go above $11.5M per year on Gilmore. Whaley had 2 years to sign him and didn't. McDermott was here for what, 2 months? Beane wasn't even here yet. It was also reporter long before McDermott got here and Whaley and Woods were not even attempting to negotiate a new contract. It was later said that Woods wanted to test free agency, and after signing in LA he said that he was looking to go back to the west coast to play, preferably to his home state of California. Whaley also had a year to sign Woods. Gillislee was was given a 2 year offer sheet by the Patriots, with a $4M salary/cap hit this year. They did this purposely because the Bills didn't have a whole lot of cap space at that time. IIRC I believe they only had around $6M when that offer sheet was given. Plus they had McCoy already making $8+M. They also got a draft pick for him, and when you're trying to transition a team to a new scheme, those picks are valuable. Whaley was also here at that time, and you can say it was all McDermott deciding to give him the original raround tender and not match the offer, but we don't really know that for sure. Whaley did the exact same thing with Hogan the year prior, so it's not like that would have been an out of character move for him... and I would guess that he was telling McDermott at the time that Jonathan Williams could take Gillislee's spot. Remember, McDermott hasn't been here long, so he really hadn't had a chance to get to know all the players well and probably had mostly only evaluated players on tape at that point. Also, I have no idea what you are saying about Kailen Clay... He had 1 reception for 28 yards here, plus 2 punt returns for 2 yards. Hes had 1 reception for 5 yards in Carolina, plus 6 punt returns for 24 yards. 29 total yards in Carolina. 30 total yards in Buffalo. How exactly are they getting more production out of him? And what peoduction are are you talking about from players that have left? Woods, Gilmore, Gillislee were never here with McDermott, Dennison, Frazier. Clay was arguably more productive here. Seymour was here for a second, but hurt most of the time and hasn't been all that productive in Carolina yet. Actually, I believe he was more productive in Buffalo last year than he has been so far in Carolina (but nothing really worth mentioning, production wise in either place). Jonathan Williams hasn't played a game for anyone else yet. Dareus has performed almost exactly the same for Jacksonville as he did here under McDermott. Almost identical stats, except he had 1 sack here and 0 so far in Jacksonville. As for Miller, he hasn't performed in this new scheme, that's true. Tyrod has been very similar to his past 2 seasons so far. Many/most of his stats are very close to what they were last year. And id say the new defense is getting more out of the players that are still here than Rex got the last 2 years, except for Lorenzo Alexander maybe. Outside of those 3 bad games, the defense has actually been pretty damn good. The offense isn't scoring as many points as last year and the O line is struggling more in the run game. Some of that's on Dennison and Juan Castillo. Some is on the players. I dont think they are just scapegoating players either. They are getting rid of players they don't think fit, or are not on board, and keeping the players that fit/are on board. Theres still quite a few players here that were acquired by the previous regime... so we will agree to disagree there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 7 hours ago, cba fan said: Is Clay better? compared to the slowest return man in NFL in Brandon Tate?......SMH. IMO, no. Certainly not as a WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMF2006 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 The real problem was in communication The coaches would yell CLAY get out there and Kaelin would line up at TE He had to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Clay?? I'm still ticked off that they cut Ruvell Martin. He had better career receiving numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHARDTRUTH Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 8 hours ago, cale said: Man, my bad. Most of the people on this board would have been able to get at what I meant. But for those unable to connect the dots…let me help. Wow. Most people would get what you meant? Have you bothered reading the responses to this thread? Nobody got what you meant. Your initial post was nothing but nonsense. 12 hours ago, cale said: We traded for him and then cut him. The team that traded him to us then signed him again. And got more production out of him then we did. We now traded for another one of their WRs. Wonder how that's gonna turn out? http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000883084/Kaelin-Clay-hits-spin-move-and-turbo-on-60-yard-punt-return-TD Look above. You state Carolina got more production out of him than we did. That clearly implies we missed the boat and cut a player that went on to produce at a high level elsewhere. Now you say Im suppossed to infer this out of your initial thread: 9 hours ago, cale said: Man, my bad. Most of the people on this board would have been able to get at what I meant. But for those unable to connect the dots…let me help. This staff is throwing stuff at the wall at hopes it sticks. The only thing they’re sure of is that they don’t want the guys they didn’t draft to remain in Buffalo. Even if they are talented. I’m pretty sure Tyrod, as much as he is a fit for this team right now, is gone by next season. I honestly don’t have of a problem with that as long as they have a better option in the wings. But I’m also pretty sure, this administration, will look for all kinds of excuses to ship out McCoy as well. Conversely, if they drafted or brought a guy in either while here or in Carolina, the guy gets more than the benefit of the doubt until he craps the bed. Take Zay Jones and Mike Tolbert. They used the same “process” to ship out: Watkins Woods Gillislee Gimore Dareus Williams (Denver, now Saints) They’re also using the same thought process on Tyrod (which is TT isn’t productive so we need someone else in there). The truth is TT isn’t productive in *this* system. Dennison should be coaching for his life. Today’s win shouldn’t change any of that. Not having Miller and Reilly in there is also criminal. But in either case, regardless of whether they bring someone in or let them go, they are unable to maximize the guy’s potential. Kaelin Clay is an example of that. He was signed by Beane while he was in Carolina. So they traded Kevon Seymour, a solid DB for Clay. That should have never happened. All the while having Brandon Reilly in the wings. But while they had Clay they were unable to utilize him in an optimal/productive way. We can argue as to how productive he’s been at Carolina. But there is little doubt that the Panthers staff has gotten more out of him than our staff. So we gave up a DB and lost a WR, maybe a marginally productive one, but it’s still dumb. The “Process” should look at how the systems they’ve installed are not being productive or getting the most of the players. Both on offense and defense. Of the players shipped out, I would say the Gilmore thing was a good move. I’m also glad Dareus isn’t here. I think that was a win-win for both sides. But everyone else has been fairly productive elsewhere or in Buffalo. This administration is more interested in scapegoating the players they did not personally coach, sign or draft. They undervalue those players and overvalue the ones with which they have a personal history. But in spite of that they have not gotten what they can out of the players that they do have on the team. Just stop. This is the worst thread in the history of threads. Your digging a hole so deep your past china already and on to jupiter. Or maybe that last bong hit put you on jupiter. A little bit of sour diesel is ok on the weekends. But doing it all day everyday is a clear indication of a bigger problem. Get some help for that. Life is beautiful. Just say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 5 hours ago, THEHARDTRUTH said: Wow. Most people would get what you meant? Have you bothered reading the responses to this thread? Nobody got what you meant. Your initial post was nothing but nonsense. Look above. You state Carolina got more production out of him than we did. That clearly implies we missed the boat and cut a player that went on to produce at a high level elsewhere. Now you say Im suppossed to infer this out of your initial thread: Just stop. This is the worst thread in the history of threads. Your digging a hole so deep your past china already and on to jupiter. Or maybe that last bong hit put you on jupiter. A little bit of sour diesel is ok on the weekends. But doing it all day everyday is a clear indication of a bigger problem. Get some help for that. Life is beautiful. Just say no. Wow! Stop beating up on JJ Cale. He knows not what he do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 If Tate had lost his fumble yesterday, then this thread would have more credibility. But he didn't, and it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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