SI.com: The Baffling Breakup between Tyrod Taylor and the Bills

[jr1]

he has 3 interceptions in 308 attempts this season

[dave mcbride]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

Orton's comebacks and game-winning drives helped.

 

We would've went 10-6 if we never started EJ.

Orton's failure to connect vs. KC on two plays he had open receivers (Hogan in the middle of the EZ, Watkins in the corner) at the end of the game cost them the game. Sammy saved him in the Detroit game with a circus catch on a throw that was 10 times worse than the O'Leary catch, and bear in mind that Orton played badly that game (including throwing a pick-six). Orton came through vs. Minnesota with a series of good throws to Chandler, Hogan, and Watkins at the end. He led the Bills to a victory against a NE team that basically rested their good players for most of the game too.  If that game had mattered, the Bills would have been destroyed.

 

My point is, let's look at the details of his performance before proclaiming and citing qb wins (a mostly but not entirely garbage stat). Bear in mind that I was not an Orton hater and thought he was OK overall. He wasn't as good as Taylor has been, but he was a credible NFL qb who was a major upgrade over Manuel. 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, jr1 said:

he has 3 interceptions in 308 attempts this season

 

And 12 touchdowns, good for 24th in the NFL in touchdown percentage. Yay.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Orton's failure to connect vs. KC on two plays he had open receivers (Hogan in the middle of the EZ, Watkins in the corner) at the end of the game cost them the game. Sammy saved him in the Detroit game with a circus catch on a throw that was 10 times worse than the O'Leary catch, and bear in mind that Orton played badly that game (including throwing a pick-six). Orton came through vs. Minnesota with a series of good throws to Chandler, Hogan, and Watkins at the end. He led the Bills to a victory against a NE team that basically rested their good players for most of the game too.  If that game had mattered, the Bills would have been destroyed.

 

My point is, let's look at the details of his performance before proclaiming and citing qb wins (a mostly but not entirely garbage stat). Bear in mind that I was not an Orton hater and thought he was OK overall. He wasn't as good as Taylor has been, but he was a credible NFL qb who was a major upgrade over Manuel. 

 

No way.

 

Also, talk about cherry picking.  All that matters is the W-L and Orton was better than TT in that regard.

[SlamnSam]

17 hours ago, Comebackkid said:

and Tom Brady threw an int... your point?   Every qb throws a pass that isnt 100% where it should be.  

The point is Tyrod throws lots of crap. I can’t wait until he’s gone . We win some games inspite of his ability to actually throw a football but throw the game. Peterman is better than mr floater pass .

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Orton's failure to connect vs. KC on two plays he had open receivers (Hogan in the middle of the EZ, Watkins in the corner) at the end of the game cost them the game. Sammy saved him in the Detroit game with a circus catch on a throw that was 10 times worse than the O'Leary catch, and bear in mind that Orton played badly that game (including throwing a pick-six). Orton came through vs. Minnesota with a series of good throws to Chandler, Hogan, and Watkins at the end. He led the Bills to a victory against a NE team that basically rested their good players for most of the game too.  If that game had mattered, the Bills would have been destroyed.

 

My point is, let's look at the details of his performance before proclaiming and citing qb wins (a mostly but not entirely garbage stat). Bear in mind that I was not an Orton hater and thought he was OK overall. He wasn't as good as Taylor has been, but he was a credible NFL qb who was a major upgrade over Manuel. 

To piggyback on a stat I know you like as well, DVOA Offense Ranks:
2014:

Total: 26

Pass: 24

Rush: 28

2015:

Total: 9

Pass: 12

Rush: 2

2016:

Total: 10

Pass: 18

Rush: 1

[Hurricane Marv]

Just now, SlamnSam said:

The point is Tyrod throws lots of crap. I can’t wait until he’s gone . We win some games inspite of his ability to actually throw a football but throw the game. Peterman is better than mr floater pass .

 

But Peterman is not better.  How can anybody even attempt to get away with saying this at this point?

 

Tyrod is not the long-term answer, and I don't believe anybody is against drafting a QB next year.  Since you can't really do anything else about it at this point, then the only argument to really have is between Tyrod and Peterman, which is frankly stupid considering the team is in playoff contention.  Peterman isn't the answer, folks.

[SlamnSam]

I just said it. He can actually throw a ball tyrod cannot . Three of those ints were not pertermans fault. Didn’t you hear Bosa say “they aren’t even blocking me”. 

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

No way.

 

Also, talk about cherry picking.  All that matters is the W-L and Orton was better than TT in that regard.

1) Why "no way"?  The Pats (playing at home) won the SB that season, you know. If you think that the Bills would have beaten NE in NE if there was something on the line for the Pats in that game, I don't know what to say.

 

"All that matters is the W-L." 

 

Orton lifetime: 42-40 with an 81.2 rating; 4 rushing TDs and 296 yards rushing; 3.7 percent of passes were TDs; 2.5 percent were INTs.

 

Taylor lifetime: 21-18 with a 92.1 rating; 14 rushing TDs and 1586 yards rushing (in half as many starts); 4.2 percent of passes were TDs; 1.5 percent were INTs.

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

1) Why "no way"?  The Pats (playing at home) won the SB that season, you know. If you think that the Bills would have beaten NE in NE if there was something on the line for the Pats in that game, I don't know what to say.

 

"All that matters is the W-L." 

 

Orton lifetime: 42-40 with an 81.2 rating; 4 rushing TDs and 296 yards rushing; 3.7 percent of passes were TDs; 2.5 percent were INTs.

 

Taylor lifetime: 21-18 with a 92.1 rating; 14 rushing TDs and 1586 yards rushing (in half as many starts); 4.2 percent of passes were TDs; 1.5 percent were INTs.

I'm talking about their Bills careers. Not random numbers.

 

we beat the Packers that year. Yeah, we could've won. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by jmc12290

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

I'm talking about their Bills careers. Not random numbers.

 

we beat the Packers that year. Yeah, we could've won. 

The Bills were a terrible matchup against the Pats, whose offense completely eviscerated them early on. They were playing in NE too, and NE was obviously on a roll at that point. They weren't going to win. 

 

Random numbers? Since when does "larger sample size" translate into "random numbers"? The context of Taylor's won-loss stats are important too: the defense has never been below 20 in DVOA since he's been here. Orton played with a defense that was, to repeat, #2 overall in DVOA and which led the league in sacks.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

41 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Just bumping this because I'm tired of hearing about Tyrod Taylor's "record as a starter."  Almost as tired as I am hearing about how he "protects the ball."

 

How many 3rd and longs, yesterday, did we run the ball - effectively playing for a FG try?  A lot.  Ask yourself why.  When I ask myself why, I answer myself with, "because we don't have a QB who can pass on a passing down."

I'll take "Too Many" for $1000 Alex 

[justnzane]

15 minutes ago, SlamnSam said:

I just said it. He can actually throw a ball tyrod cannot . Three of those ints were not pertermans fault. Didn’t you hear Bosa say “they aren’t even blocking me”. 

You do realize that it is the same ****ty line that couldn't block against the Jests or the Saints.

 

I like Peterman as a developmental QB, but you have to be on crack if you think the he is actually better than Tyrod. Peterman's decision making skills were rough as he couldn't sense the pressure at all. 

[Big Turk]

24 minutes ago, Hurricane Marv said:

 

But Peterman is not better.  How can anybody even attempt to get away with saying this at this point?

 

Tyrod is not the long-term answer, and I don't believe anybody is against drafting a QB next year.  Since you can't really do anything else about it at this point, then the only argument to really have is between Tyrod and Peterman, which is frankly stupid considering the team is in playoff contention.  Peterman isn't the answer, folks.

 

I think Peterman just got the "Yips" after that DiMarco play...I dont think that is the way he would play on a game to game basis but there is no way you can take that chance that one bad play would affect him that much...he needs some time...

[TheFunPolice]

Tyrod is Alex Smith 2 years ago. They are the same QB. Take no chances, throw no picks, rely on turnovers and a play here and there to win.

 

Everyone said the same thing (how can KC not appreciate him?) about Smith a couple years ago.

[CountDorkula]

Perennial playoff contender KC about to break up with Alex Smith - bold and applauded.

Perennial bad to average Bills about to break up with Taylor - Idiotic, baffling, and unprecedented. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

Perennial playoff contender KC about to break up with Alex Smith - bold and applauded.

Perennial bad to average Bills about to break up with Taylor - Idiotic, baffling, and unprecedented. 

One team hasn't drafted their franchise qb of the future; one team already has. I don't think anyone here think that that Bills shouldn't try to get a qb in the first round next season. 

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Bills were a terrible matchup against the Pats, whose offense completely eviscerated them early on. They were playing in NE too, and NE was obviously on a roll at that point. They weren't going to win. 

 

Random numbers? Since when does "larger sample size" translate into "random numbers"? The context of Taylor's won-loss stats are important too: the defense has never been below 20 in DVOA since he's been here. Orton played with a defense that was, to repeat, #2 overall in DVOA and which led the league in sacks.

Why don't you talk about the #1 rushing attack that Kyle Orton never had?

[sleeby]

Is, say, joe flacco so much better than tyrod?  Tyrod has a great deep ball with no one to throw it to, he great at not turning the ball over and great at avoiding sacks.  Those last two are with half of an O line as we saw N8 P suffer through last week.

 

Tyrod cannot be brady as his short passes are not consistent.  Brady cannot be tyrod either though - and don't slame me for comparing them as I am not comparing them but rather showing how incomparable their styles are.

We started the season strong with, initially perhaps, the worst reciving corps we have ever fielded.  We did so well largely due to the turnover differential which was due to both defense and offense - and back to the half an o line and the weak receivers early on big kudos to two people on offense in particualar - TT and shady.

 

Is TT great?  No.  But he's a servicable QB who, with a great defense and a little help on offense (such as the recent wr additions) can get us places.  More than one way to win after all but ya gotta understand what you have and play that up.

 

TT's career record is not fair either.  Rex ryan and his idiot brother ruined our defense something fierce.  Last year our offnese average about 27 points per game I think.  They were not to blame for most of those losses.

 

We should get the veey best QB we can in the draft and then ease him in as appropriate.  How many young QB careers have we destroyed here already?  I like TT as the guy until we are actually ready to give a good kid a great chance.

[dave mcbride]

4 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Why don't you talk about the #1 rushing attack that Kyle Orton never had?

Happy to do so. The reason they had the #1 rushing attack was because of the threat that Taylor himself posed in the run game plus the actual yardage he piled up in 2015 and 2016 -- 1,150 yards over two seasons, which led all qbs in the league in rushing. There is a reason why Mike Gillislee had such a high ypc - a well-designed run game that accentuated the threat of Taylor taking off on designed runs on any play. The statuesque Orton contributed zilch to the Bills' run game.

 

Again, I'm not an Orton hater. I like to think of myself as reasonable about Taylor too. I think too many here aren't reasonable about him and don't pay attention enough to other teams. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by dave mcbride