THEHARDTRUTH Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: No, because they are playing not to lose and not playing to their own players strengths like the previous coaches did. They are hurting their own team. You said yourself you hated that philosophy and then complimented these coaches for doing the exact opposite. You have a valid point but its pretty obvious that they dont think that style of offense(read option, tyrod running) is going to win big and I dont see the Pegulas firing Mcdermott because he refuses to cater to tyrod. Just heard Mcdermott say its really hard to play clean football every week on his presser. My translation? Sometimes you have to rely on your qb to throw the team to victory. Has Tyrod ever done that in two and two thirds seasons? Not that I can remember. Edited November 27, 2017 by THEHARDTRUTH
Comebackkid Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: When adjusted with ALL QB rushing yards eliminated, the Bills rushed for more yards over 2015 and 2016 than any other team in that two year span. You're wrong, again and again and again and again. Thanks for playing. I think your trying to hard to manipulate stats to fit your agenda. Edited November 27, 2017 by Comebackkid
Kelly the Dog Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 1 minute ago, THEHARDTRUTH said: You have a valid point but its pretty obvious that they dont think that style of offense(read option, tyrod running) is going to win big and I dont see the Pegulas firing Mcdermott because he refuses to cater to tyrod. Just heard Mcdermott say its really hard to play clean football every week on his presser. My translation? Sometimes you have to rely on your qb to throw the team to victory. Has Tyrod ever done that in two and two thirds seasons? Not that I can remember. How does "really hard to play clean football" translate to "You have to rely on your qb to throw the team to victory?" That's quite a stretch. Did you use an English-Non-Sequitor, Non-Sequitor-English Dictionary? 1
dave mcbride Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: When adjusted with ALL QB rushing yards eliminated, the Bills rushed for more yards over 2015 and 2016 than any other team in that two year span. You're wrong, again and again and again and again. Thanks for playing. The Bills in 2015 were about 5th when you take away the QB rushing yards. They were second in 2016 when you take away the rushing yards. If you're talking about both seasons *combined*, which was not clear in your initial post on the matter, you are correct. That said, I think a season-by-season measure is better because in one season you have a healthy AP, the next you don't - and the next season you have Zeke Elliott. There are risers and fallers across the board in the run game stats on a year-to-year basis. Regardless, see KtD's post above about how Taylor opened up the run game. Neither Karlos Williams nor Gillislee had anywhere near the success they had in Buffalo afterward, and that is a function of the threat that the Roman-schemedTaylor poses to a defense's run game design. That doesn't really strike me as a debatable point, but as I said others can certainly disagree. I just want to see a reasoned argument as to why Taylor didn't open things up. I get that you hate Taylor and want him gone ASAFP. Personally, I think he is an average starting qb who gives them their best chance to win this season. But that negativity toward him shouldn't preclude you from taking a deeper dive into the design of the Bills run game in 2015 and 2016. Everything KtD says above is true, at least in my opinion. Edited November 27, 2017 by dave mcbride 1
THEHARDTRUTH Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: How does "really hard to play clean football" translate to "You have to rely on your qb to throw the team to victory?" That's quite a stretch. Did you use an English-Non-Sequitor, Non-Sequitor-English Dictionary? Wow. Listen to the snarky sarcastic tone. Lets start with you not acting like your two. Then lets move on to me clarifying my comment. Hopefully youll respond like an adult. It means that you cant play a perfect game every week to compensate for average qb play. It means there are times your defense is going to give up 35 and you need to score 36. It means there are times when your going to be down 10 in the fourth and need your qb to carry you to victory. Maybe youve forgotten but thats how we made it to 4 straight superbowls and the game is alot closer to that style of play today(early 90s Bills) than the 66 packers. Edited November 27, 2017 by THEHARDTRUTH
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 17 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: When adjusted with ALL QB rushing yards eliminated, the Bills rushed for more yards over 2015 and 2016 than any other team in that two year span. You're wrong, again and again and again and again. Thanks for playing. Buffalo Bills: 2015 - 2432 Rush Yards - 632 QB Rush Yards = 1800 Net 2016 - 2630 Rush Yards - 602 QB Rush Yards = 2028 Net Total = 3,828 Non-QB Rush Yards Dallas Cowboys: 2015 - 1890 Rush Yards - 121 QB Rush Yards = 1769 Net 2016 - 2396 Rush Yards - 282 QB Rush Yards = 2114 Net Total = 3,883 Non-QB Rush Yards What do I win? 1
BADOLBILZ Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: False. The Bills would not have finished first in 2016 (Dallas would have) but rather third overall. They would have finished 9th in 2015 if Taylor's stats were eliminated. McCoy only had 895 yards in 2015, btw. OK. I agree with you! Despite being hamstrung with a lack of supporting cast and a poor play caller it's hard to objectively put together a list of a dozen teams that are getting better QB play than the Bills are from Taylor. The argument that "outsiders don't watch Taylor like we do" is the same thing that Chiefs(Smith) or Cowboys(Dak) or Titans(Mariotta) fans could say. 2
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Buffalo Bills: 2015 - 2432 Rush Yards - 632 QB Rush Yards = 1800 Net 2016 - 2630 Rush Yards - 602 QB Rush Yards = 2028 Net Total = 3,828 Non-QB Rush Yards Dallas Cowboys: 2015 - 1890 Rush Yards - 121 QB Rush Yards = 1769 Net 2016 - 2396 Rush Yards - 282 QB Rush Yards = 2114 Net Total = 3,883 Non-QB Rush Yards What do I win? This weeks BuffaloHokie13 stat getter award Edited November 27, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan 2
MDH Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 I don't know why this is even a talking point. The only question that matters is can you win the SB with Taylor at QB? If yes (which I think it is) then what kind of team surrounding him must you have? IMO, to win with him you need one of the all time great Ds (think Tampa, Ravens, Bears SB winners) AND a dominant run game. There are more legitimate high caliber, elite QBs than those types of defenses. To get where the Bills want to go they need an upgrade at the QB position.
dave mcbride Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Buffalo Bills: 2015 - 2432 Rush Yards - 632 QB Rush Yards = 1800 Net 2016 - 2630 Rush Yards - 602 QB Rush Yards = 2028 Net Total = 3,828 Non-QB Rush Yards Dallas Cowboys: 2015 - 1890 Rush Yards - 121 QB Rush Yards = 1769 Net 2016 - 2396 Rush Yards - 282 QB Rush Yards = 2114 Net Total = 3,883 Non-QB Rush Yards What do I win? A trophy of some sort!
BADOLBILZ Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Buffalo Bills: 2015 - 2432 Rush Yards - 632 QB Rush Yards = 1800 Net 2016 - 2630 Rush Yards - 602 QB Rush Yards = 2028 Net Total = 3,828 Non-QB Rush Yards Dallas Cowboys: 2015 - 1890 Rush Yards - 121 QB Rush Yards = 1769 Net 2016 - 2396 Rush Yards - 282 QB Rush Yards = 2114 Net Total = 3,883 Non-QB Rush Yards What do I win? jmc's stat game has been killing him........
Kelly the Dog Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, BADOLBILZ said: jmc's stat game has been killing him........ Excluding numbers, simple addition and subtraction, jmc has a terrific math game.
BringBackOrton Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Buffalo Bills: 2015 - 2432 Rush Yards - 632 QB Rush Yards = 1800 Net 2016 - 2630 Rush Yards - 602 QB Rush Yards = 2028 Net Total = 3,828 Non-QB Rush Yards Dallas Cowboys: 2015 - 1890 Rush Yards - 121 QB Rush Yards = 1769 Net 2016 - 2396 Rush Yards - 282 QB Rush Yards = 2114 Net Total = 3,883 Non-QB Rush Yards What do I win? An EJ jersey because that !@#$er let me down again. 2
dave mcbride Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 Just now, jmc12290 said: An EJ jersey because that !@#$er let me down again. Now that was funny!! Seriously!
BringBackOrton Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: jmc's stat game has been killing him........ 2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Excluding numbers, simple addition and subtraction, jmc has a terrific math game. The fan club is growing!
dave mcbride Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 10 minutes ago, MDH said: I don't know why this is even a talking point. The only question that matters is can you win the SB with Taylor at QB? If yes (which I think it is) then what kind of team surrounding him must you have? IMO, to win with him you need one of the all time great Ds (think Tampa, Ravens, Bears SB winners) AND a dominant run game. There are more legitimate high caliber, elite QBs than those types of defenses. To get where the Bills want to go they need an upgrade at the QB position. I don't think there's a soul here who disagrees with you about this.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, MDH said: I don't know why this is even a talking point. The only question that matters is can you win the SB with Taylor at QB? If yes (which I think it is) then what kind of team surrounding him must you have? IMO, to win with him you need one of the all time great Ds (think Tampa, Ravens, Bears SB winners) AND a dominant run game. There are more legitimate high caliber, elite QBs than those types of defenses. To get where the Bills want to go they need an upgrade at the QB position. The amount of QB's that have proven they can get middling rosters within striking distance of a SB consistently......Brady, Peyton, Rodgers and maybe Big Ben...........looks a lot like the amount of teams that have won SB's on the back of incredible defense during that period......Baltimore, Tampa, Seattle, Denver. The reason to get a great QB is to be in contention for a decade and a half and win multiple SB's along the way. That's a great aspiration but not where the Bills NEED to be...........they NEED to win one.........the shortest distance there right now is to build a great defense.......it's easier and faster....defenses can be turned upside down in one offseason......... and it also doesn't necessarily work against the long term goal.
MAJBobby Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 2 hours ago, unclepete said: Like Paxton Lynch, Geno Smith, JP Losman, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Johnny Manziel, Nick Foles, RG3 etc... Because it's guaranteed that whoever we draft will be an upgrade. How's Deshone Kizer doing? How'd Paxton Lynch look yesterday? How is Goff and Wentz, want to really play this game
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 1 hour ago, jmc12290 said: An EJ jersey because that !@#$er let me down again. In wrapping up the rest of the teams, Bills were 5th in 2015, 2nd in 2016, and 2nd in the 2 year span.
CountDorkula Posted November 27, 2017 Posted November 27, 2017 2 hours ago, unclepete said: Like Paxton Lynch, Geno Smith, JP Losman, EJ Manuel, Blake Bortles, Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Johnny Manziel, Nick Foles, RG3 etc... Because it's guaranteed that whoever we draft will be an upgrade. How's Deshone Kizer doing? How'd Paxton Lynch look yesterday? Pre-buyers remorse always amazes me.
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