Here's our problem: Draft Rounds 1-3

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 hours ago, Rubes said:

2009    1    Aaron Maybin – GONE
2009    1    Eric Wood – Starter
2009    2    Jairus Byrd – GONE
2009    2    Andy Levitre – GONE

 

2010    1    C.J. Spiller – GONE
2010    2    Torell Troup – GONE
2010    3    Alex Carrington – GONE

 

2011    1    Marcell Dareus – GONE
2011    2    Aaron Williams – GONE
2011    3    Kelvin Sheppard – GONE

 

2012    1    Stephon Gilmore – GONE
2012    2    Cordy Glenn – Starter
2012    3    T.J. Graham – GONE

 

2013    1    EJ Manuel – GONE
2013    2    Robert Woods – GONE
2013    2    Kiko Alonso – GONE
2013    3    Marquise Goodwin – GONE

 

2014    1    Sammy Watkins – GONE
2014    2    Cyrus Kouandjio – GONE
2014    3    Preston Brown – Starter

 

2015    1    NONE
2015    2    Ronald Darby – GONE
2015    3    John Miller – NOT EVEN ACTIVE

 

2016    1    Shaq Lawson – Starter
2016    2    Reggie Ragland – GONE
2016    3    Adolphus Washington – Starter

 

Gotta build your team around the first three rounds. So few of them left.

 

 

I get the point- I do think you need to account for the trades...  

 

kiko results in McCoy elite >starter

darby results in Mathews >starter 

watkins results in Gaines > starter

[Theshallowcross]

14 minutes ago, Shotgunner said:

 

You are putting the cart in front of the horse. There is absolutely no way you know the things bolded, because nobody knows yet. His "roster construction"? Hasn't even done it yet. He had a garage sale, and hasn't even got a chance to spent the money. Like him or hate him, you don't get to judge a "roster construction" that hasn't even happened yet.

 

And the "kid just isn't good"? Come on now, you think 30 minutes is all you need to evaluate a qb? I have no idea how Peterman will be, but you don't either.

 

You present premature opinions as if they are certifiable facts.

 

He traded speed and explosiveness (Watkins/Goodwin/Woods) for height, age and less talent (Holmes/Jones/Matthews and now Benjamin). He allowed the offensive scheme and offensive line to be completely changed without adding anything other than Dawkins. He traded a run stuffing/pass rushing DT for a 6th round pick without any plan on the roster to replace him. 

 

We now have a plodding, slow ineffective offense outside of Shady and Taylor (the only explosive players on the offense) an out of their depth and out of their comfort zone offensive line and a defense that can't rush the passer or stop the run. If you don't find these things concerning or showing a tendency for the propensity of player McD is bringing in, you're either blind to the process or are intentionally being argumentative. 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Theshallowcross

[Billsfan1972]

11 hours ago, Wily Dog said:

I have been here for all of these drafts and their disappointments and the coaching changes. i think we should let Mc Dermott go more than  three years before calling for his head. The same with Beane. We may be surprised. I also think  that the Peterman experiment was justified because of Tyrod's lack of downfield success. The first three of Peterman's interceptions were not his fault. ,One to a back who didn't catch, and two to an unblocked defensive end who disrupted Peterman's arm. I suppose the QB could have taken the sack on the two. and maybe he should have but how many times have we seen that. Peterman may be our QB of the future and he may not. Half a game is in no was a litmus test.

sorry about the typo. , no way a litmus test

Here we go again......  Give them 3 years, because of all they've proven with their bombast.  

 

I'd respected them a whole lot more if they said we are going to build on what I see as a team on the cusp mired around .500 and make the Bills a destination spot for players.  

 

Instead they sold us that this is actually just a terrible team in need of a tear down and we are the saviors.  

 

Trading the better player in every trade made (outside Benjamin) doesn't instill any confidence because we have no idea if these guys are any good.....  

17 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I get the point- I do think you need to account for the trades...  

 

kiko results in McCoy elite >starter

darby results in Mathews >starter 

watkins results in Gaines > starter

And again Mathews better then Darby (we got more in the trade so Philly thought Darby is the better player)

And stop it thinking Gaines is any good and better then Watkins.  When healthy Gaines has done a good (not great) job.

[SoTier]

Since a poster seemed to think the Bills got so much for the  guys who are gone, I thought I'd check them out ... what the Bills got and didn't get.  Thanks to the OP for his work on the original list.   The reality is that the guys who weren't busts (and the Bills are about average on busts with the rest of the NFL) mostly left in FA and the Bills got nothing for them.  IMO, they only had 2 positive trades: Sheppard for Hughes and Alonso for McCoy. 

 

Keep in mind that these are only draft picks from rounds 1-3 and not other good/decent players that the Bills acquired and then sent packing like Zach Brown, Mike Gillislee, Chris Hogan, Nigel Bradham, and many others making themselves useful on likely playoff teams. 

 

2009    1    Aaron Maybin – GONE  - BUST
2009    1    Eric Wood – Starter
2009    2    Jairus Byrd – GONE
2009    2    Andy Levitre – GONE - ATLANTA - starter

 

2010    1    C.J. Spiller – GONE - retired I think
2010    2    Torell Troup – GONE - injury
2010    3    Alex Carrington – GONE

 

2011    1    Marcell Dareus – GONE - JAX - 2018 6th round pick, possibly 5th  (late)
2011    2    Aaron Williams – GONE - injury
2011    3    Kelvin Sheppard – GONE - Jerry Hughes

 

2012    1    Stephon Gilmore – GONE - NE - starter
2012    2    Cordy Glenn – Starter
2012    3    T.J. Graham – GONE - BUST

 

2013    1    EJ Manuel – GONE - BUST - OAKLAND
2013    2    Robert Woods – GONE - LAR - starter
2013    2    Kiko Alonso – GONE - MIAMI - starter - Shady McCoy
2013    3    Marquise Goodwin – GONE - 49ERS - starter

 

2014    1    Sammy Watkins – GONE - LAR - starter - 2018 2nd round pick (late) + EJ Gaines
2014    2    Cyrus Kouandjio – GONE - back up -- not sure what team
2014    3    Preston Brown – Starter

 

2015    1    NONE
2015    2    Ronald Darby – GONE - PHILLY -starter, out with injury until last week when he had an INT - Jordan Matthews
2015    3    John Miller – NOT EVEN ACTIVE - he's still on the Bills; he backs up Vlad Ducasse at LG

 

2016    1    Shaq Lawson – Starter
2016    2    Reggie Ragland – GONE -KC  2019 4th
2016    3    Adolphus Washington – Starter

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by SoTier

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, Theshallowcross said:

 

He traded speed and explosiveness (Watkins/Goodwin/Woods) for height, age and less talent (Holmes/Jones/Matthews and now Benjamin). He allowed the offensive scheme and offensive line to be completely changed without adding anything other than Dawkins. He traded a run stuffing/pass rushing DT for a 6th round pick without any plan on the roster to replace him. 

 

We now have a plodding, slow ineffective offense outside of Shady and Taylor (the only explosive players on the offense) an out of their depth and out of their comfort zone offensive line and a defense that can't rush the passer or stop the run. If you don't find these things concerning or showing a tendency for the propensity of player McD is bringing in, you're either blind to the process or are intentionally being argumentative. 

 

I'm blind or intentionally argumentative? No. I'm being sensible. You say he traded speed for this and that, that's an abridged version. All the trading in draft, preseason, and season accrued draft picks. The players are just so  we have someone to roster this year, and since the draft picks have not even been used yet, you are still way too early on judging the job. It's the plan, and you have to let it play out before you pretend to already know the outcome.

 

I'm not just some McD fanboy, and I have concerns, but realize that judging it now is foolhardy. We let him tear down the roster, and that is already done, so now we have to allow him to rebuild and spend all that draft capital. We absolutely need to let this play out rather than punctuate his tenure because we weren't patient enough to give him a legitimate chance.

 

I don't care who you are, you can't judge "roster building" in less than a year. You just can't.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

It is the last 4 or 5 drafts that matter.  very few players get a second contract with the team that drafted them 

[Coach Tuesday]

Preston and Shaq won’t even be starters here next year.

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Cripple Creek said:

What you say is truth, and to post "gotta keep them for 5 years" without any qualifiers is lazy and stupid.  Based on that logic we'd be looking at two plus more years of Rex and Whaley and gosh darn it Brandon wasn't given near enough time running football ops. 

 

You've put some context around the statement like any intelligent person would.

 

Had we stuck with Whaley and Marrone, we'd be a better team today.

[BarleyNY]

11 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

The flaw in this thread is that they are not gone because there is no talent there, the real issue is coaching and scheme turnover.

 

I agree - and that’s on the Pegulas.  It’s such a horrific mistake to hire coaches that revamp the general style of play of a team - especially when you have something that is working well.  Case in point is the Bills top 5 defense under Schwartz.  4-3 one gap attacking defense with a cover 2 that turned over to a  3-4 two gap read and react cover zero and now going back to a 4-3 one gap but with a cover 3.  So many wasted picks that didn’t fit the current scheme.  The same happened with the offense and their blocking schemes. Owners need to pick an overall vision that works and stick with it. 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Shotgunner said:

 

I'm blind or intentionally argumentative? No. I'm being sensible. You say he traded speed for this and that, that's an abridged version. All the trading in draft, preseason, and season accrued draft picks. The players are just so  we have someone to roster this year, and since the draft picks have not even been used yet, you are still way too early on judging the job. It's the plan, and you have to let it play out before you pretend to already know the outcome.

 

I'm not just some McD fanboy, and I have concerns, but realize that judging it now is foolhardy. We let him tear down the roster, and that is already done, so now we have to allow him to rebuild and spend all that draft capital. We absolutely need to let this play out rather than punctuate his tenure because we weren't patient enough to give him a legitimate chance.

 

I don't care who you are, you can't judge "roster building" in less than a year. You just can't.

No one can reasonably argue with this.  I am not confident this regime knows what it is doing.  I did not like the Sammy trade or the Dareus trade, but you can't judge a vision before new players are brought in.  Lots of new scouts; hopefully, they know what they are doing.  I'm really hoping they know how to evaluate qb.

[Wily Dog]

It all comes down to the old argument about the chicken and the egg. You have to have both. The draft has to be sensible and good and the front office and the coaching has to be good. They both have not been good over the years with sporadic intervals of draft success or coach/front office success. i believe that McD/Beane should be here for five years with tweaking of the staff of both systems.i.e. scouts and assistant coaches. This is what nemesis does. Ten we can judge results .

[xRUSHx]

13 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

My two cents ... regime changes.

 

Gotta stick with McBeane for at least 5 years, IMO.

IMO regime changes are all linked to bad choices at the most important position in football. The QB position. If QB gets addressed proplerly this staff has a chance otherwise IMO they are toast.

[Madd Charlie]

I'll admit it took guts for a first time GM to come in and almost immediately get rid of some (Dareus, Watkins, Darby, Ragland) and completely alienate other (Glenn, Miller, Taylor) very talented players who were key parts of past teams, but that doesn't mean it was smart.  They could come out of this draft with absolutely nothing and it wouldn't be a shock to anyone because Mr. Beane has proven nothing in this league so far.  I don't know how much Beane had to do with the Panthers last few drafts, but I hope not too much because I don't see many above average players drafted recently. They drafted for need rather than BPA it seemed. They made lots of boom or bust reach picks, that's a great way to blow some extra draft picks quick. 

[Bill from NYC]

14 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

So are you saying the problem is poor drafting or too many regime changes?

A HUGE part the problem is/was wasting draft picks (some of them top 10), on running backs and defensive backs, and neglecting the quarterback position and the offensive line.

I don't see any mystery here, do you? Seriously.

4 hours ago, Nanker said:

We’ll, don’t expect Wood and Incognito to hang around much longer. I don’t. 

Good. One is getting old, the other is average and making about 2 or even 3 times what he is worth.

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Had we stuck with Whaley and Marrone, we'd be a better team today.

Not so sure about that.

 

Whaley was erratic.  Made a few good moves but made some bad contracts (Dareus, Williams) and made some bad drafts errors (Manual and Watkins). 

 

Marrone -  I would really like to know why he left.  ---   No QB?   Did not like Whaley?   The Pegula's?  Maybe just take the money and run to NY?    Once he left and Polian shied away we ended up with Rex and more Whaley and just and wasted 2 more years. 

 

I think the OP is correct.  Bad drafting and too much coaching change. 

[BillsVet]

Far too many of Buffalo's HC and GM hires during the generation of fail didn't understand where the game was/is going in terms of offensive strategy.  Instead, Buffalo neglected, as Bill notes above, the QB position and IMO sunk significant resources into defense. Except, teams aren't winning anymore with dominant defenses that shut down offenses like this is the 1970s/80s.  

 

Buffalo spent a lot of high picks on defense in hopes of building a top unit there going back years.  Well, they managed to have a better defense in 2013-14, but the offense wasn't all that good. I would hope McD understands if he wants to win it'll be behind a strong offense and a good enough defense. 

 

[Pbomb]

15 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

Man. Goes to show why firing coaches every two years doesn't work at all.

And yet some people already want mcd fired

[BobChalmers]

16 hours ago, Augie said:

Certainly a problem, but the facts are, we are moving forward. You can’t just point to “gone” without mentioning what we got in return. The math ain’t right. 

 

 

Seriously - any list that says "Kiko Alonso GONE" and leaves it at that is pretty hard to take seriously.

 

We got 70% of our offense in return for Kiko - C'mon man.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, Shotgunner said:

 

I'm blind or intentionally argumentative? No. I'm being sensible. You say he traded speed for this and that, that's an abridged version. All the trading in draft, preseason, and season accrued draft picks. The players are just so  we have someone to roster this year, and since the draft picks have not even been used yet, you are still way too early on judging the job. It's the plan, and you have to let it play out before you pretend to already know the outcome.

 

I'm not just some McD fanboy, and I have concerns, but realize that judging it now is foolhardy. We let him tear down the roster, and that is already done, so now we have to allow him to rebuild and spend all that draft capital. We absolutely need to let this play out rather than punctuate his tenure because we weren't patient enough to give him a legitimate chance.

 

I don't care who you are, you can't judge "roster building" in less than a year. You just can't.

 

I was willing to give McDermott and Beane the benefit of the doubt early on although I remained skeptical of what they claimed they were doing.  I have always viewed Beane as a figurehead GM who marches to orders delivered by Russ Brandon or one of his bean counter surrogates just like Whaley did.  Some posters get really bent out of shape when I say many of the Bills roster moves are motivated by cutting player payroll but making personnel moves to save real $ -- NOT necessarily cap $ -- has been a recurring theme on Bills teams for the entire length of the drought.  The Bills have spent the last seventeen years developing some pretty good players through the draft and as UDFAs and then letting them walk away in FA rather than pay them or getting skinned in trades because of their desperation to get rid of players.   That was standard operating procedure under Wilson's ownership and it seems to be continuing exactly the same under the Pegulas: draft a first round DB -- develop him into a Pro Bowler --  let him walk in FA -- draft another first round DB to take his place.

 

Plain and simple, I don't think this is "roster building" with the purpose of building a winning team in the future but simply to insure that the bottom line stays healthy.   That's very cynical, but I've been a Bills fan since 1963, so I can't help myself.  It's just the same manure that OBD has been shoveling and Bills have been accepting for 17 years.   When the Bills draft their "future franchise QB" in the first round in 2018, the fans will get all excited and run to buy/renew their season tix ... just like they did when the Bills signed Terrell Owens in 2009 and Mario Williams in 2012.

[BobChalmers]

Just now, SoTier said:

 

I was willing to give McDermott and Beane the benefit of the doubt early on although I remained skeptical of what they claimed they were doing. 

 

Can our new GM have his FIRST DRAFT before we complain about his work?

 

Wow, just wow!