KD in CA Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He obstructed the investigation of a murder, as well as helped destroy evidence. Anyway, Owens didn't murder, witness a murder, obstruct a murder investigation, nor did he help destroy evidence of a murder...... yet the HOF voters have made him wait--and he's (at least) a top 5 WR in the history of the game. It would be proof positive of how idiotic this voting system if they let Lewis in on the first ballot. Total hypocrisy. But TO did complain about his QB and do push ups in his driveway for assembled sports writers. Oh yeah, and there was that whole Sharpie thing...
Mr. WEO Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 Just now, KD in CA said: But TO did complain about his QB and do push ups in his driveway for assembled sports writers. Oh yeah, and there was that whole Sharpie thing... Capital crimes!!
KD in CA Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 On 11/22/2017 at 5:21 PM, Alphadawg7 said: I see some making a case for Owens, but Holt was a better player and I would hands down put him in over TO, even though I don't disagree that TO has a hall worthy resume. I wouldn't put him in ahead of TO, but I agree Holt is underrated and bears strong consideration for the HOF.
Mr. WEO Posted November 24, 2017 Posted November 24, 2017 On November 22, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Alphadawg7 said: Its a total travesty that Roger Craig isn't already in. Here is who I would put IN: Craig, Lewis, Moss, Lynch, Holt. I see some making a case for Owens, but Holt was a better player and I would hands down put him in over TO, even though I don't disagree that TO has a hall worthy resume. As far as the others I picked: Craig changed the game for RB's and deserves to be in already as one of the first real dual threat RBs in terms of running and receiving. He got over shadowed with Montana and Rice there, but this guy was a huge part of that team that doesn't get the credit he deserves. Lewis one of the 3 best LBs to ever play. Lynch one of 3 best Safeties to ever play. Moss one 3 greatest WR's to ever play. Hands down better than TO?? Holt played 10 years on one team with 2 QBs and had 74 TDs TO played 15 years on 5 different teams and had more than twice as many TDs as Holt. His mostnTDs came from....Jeff Garcia! TO produced pretty much wherever with whomever. Holt? No..
NewEra Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: He obstructed the investigation of a murder, as well as helped destroy evidence. Anyway, Owens didn't murder, witness a murder, obstruct a murder investigation, nor did he help destroy evidence of a murder...... yet the HOF voters have made him wait--and he's (at least) a top 5 WR in the history of the game. It would be proof positive of how idiotic this voting system if they let Lewis in on the first ballot. Total hypocrisy. And TO has zero titles, 1 SB appearance while the ravens wouldn’t have won any SBs without Ray, while winning 2 with him. I get what you’re saying, but my money is Ray Lewis being a first ballot HoFer and I’d be surprised if he isn’t.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Hands down better than TO?? Holt played 10 years on one team with 2 QBs and had 74 TDs TO played 15 years on 5 different teams and had more than twice as many TDs as Holt. His mostnTDs came from....Jeff Garcia! TO produced pretty much wherever with whomever. Holt? No.. There is more than just TD's and TO had 5 more seasons on Holt to increase those totals, not to mention Holt played with Bruce and Faulk who took TD opportunities away and yet he still had 74. TO spent most of his career as the main target who basically demanded to be force fed the ball hence the padding of the numbers over Holt. Holt was a better WR overall, better route runner and better hands, not to mention light years better teammate. I would take Holt over TO any day of the week even if TO had been a model citizen. TO was the Amare Cooper of his day of drops. Holt amassed all his totals over 10 years while sharing the ball with a couple of the best players at their positions of their era and even ever. TO ball hogged his way to falling out with every QB he essentially ever played with while also running the team simultaneously into chaos. No doubt Holt has same if not more than TO if he played on a team where he was force fed too. This is what happens when you compare stat boxes rather than the circumstances and talent of the players. Stat boxes don't tell the whole story. TO was no slouch and has a HOF resume, but Holt was a better all around WR. Edited November 25, 2017 by Alphadawg7
Mr. WEO Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: There is more than just TD's and TO had 5 more seasons on Holt to increase those totals, not to mention Holt played with Bruce and Faulk who took TD opportunities away and yet he still had 74. TO spent most of his career as the main target who basically demanded to be force fed the ball hence the padding of the numbers over Holt. Holt was a better WR overall, better route runner and better hands, not to mention light years better teammate. I would take Holt over TO any day of the week even if TO had been a model citizen. TO was the Amare Cooper of his day of drops. Holt amassed all his totals over 10 years while sharing the ball with a couple of the best players at their positions of their era and even ever. TO ball hogged his way to falling out with every QB he essentially ever played with while also running the team simultaneously into chaos. No doubt Holt has same if not more than TO if he played on a team where he was force fed too. This is what happens when you compare stat boxes rather than the circumstances and talent of the players. Stat boxes don't tell the whole story. TO was no slouch and has a HOF resume, but Holt was a better all around WR. You also "not to mentioned": 1.) TO played with Jerry Rice for his first 5 seasons in SF. You probably don't think Rice was as good as Bruce either... 2.)The "circumstances" under which TO amassed a large chunk of his TDs--it was with Jeff Garcia, after Rice had left. Imagine that....a QB throwing most of his passes to his best (and only decent) WR! How many games did Holt play as the only threat at WR (and thus drew the best coverage)? By you estimation, not many. 3.) How many Sbs did dimwit Andy Reid make it to with the Eagles before TO showed up on his doorstep? And didn't TO break his leg, require screws placed---in mid December---and STILL made it back to play in the SB against all predictions....and caught 9 passes for 122 yards? Yeah, that was quite "selfish" of him. There isn't a single player in the NFL nowadays who would rehab that injury that quick to play even in a SB. Holt was a very good receiver and he benefitted greatly, as you have perhaps inadvertently pointed out, by other very good receiving options drawing coverage away from him.
Alaska Darin Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 Who knew Tory Holt's mom posted on TBD? We get contributions from everyone!
TallskiWallski83 Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 The hall of fame is a joke until Owens is in.
RoyBatty is alive Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 AS much as I despise both Ray Lewis and Jimmie Johnson, they both deserve to get in as does don Coryell as he revolutionized the game.
BigDingus Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 Owens was better at his position than pretty much every player the Bills have had get into the HOF the past 20 years with the exception of Bruce Smith. Kelly was great, but he's not even considered a top 10 QB all-time. Same with Thomas at RB and Reed a WR. Owens IS a top 10 WR all-time. He easily should've been first ballot, but he wasn't...so he deserves to get in immediately.
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