'He literally didn't block me': Chargers' Bosa mic'd up vs. Bills

[CountryCletus]

And later when he beat 73, and the tackle just reaches for his face... never saw anything near his face (could be wrong).... hate when people makes excuses for poor performance....

[LABILLBACKER]

16 hours ago, Foxx said:

'He literally didn't block me': Chargers' Bosa mic'd up vs. Bills

 

the play in question begins at the 0:59 mark.

 

..... whats the deal here?

 

did Mills let him by because he was unhappy Tyrod was benched?

should he be benched?

 

were there others who mailed it in as well?

Not surprised. The entire oline quit. No heart gutless players. Cut them all after the season.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, Foxx said:

'He literally didn't block me': Chargers' Bosa mic'd up vs. Bills

 

the play in question begins at the 0:59 mark.

..... whats the deal here?

 

did Mills let him by because he was unhappy Tyrod was benched?

should he be benched?

 

were there others who mailed it in as well?

 

The more I look at that clip, the scarier Bosa looks.  That man is a 6'5", 270 lb hunk of turf-pounding QB mayhem.  If he plays like that every game, he's got a spot waiting for him in Canton.  There ain't no "let", there ain't no "lack of try", that's what happens when you try to run a 50W OT at 500W: circuits pop, the thing blows out, and it just don't work.  That's what other team's OTs looked like when the lined up across from Bruce Smith in his prime.

 

I have two questions for the knowledgeable here:

1) at 2:09 in that clip, Taylor is "sacked" with a fumble.  When I look at it, it looks as though his arm and the ball were going forward as he threw.  Shouldn't that have been an incomplete forward pass?  If not, can anyone explain?  Why no challenge?  Did our coaches give up, too?

2) at about 1:30 in that clip, Bosa blows by a LT (I think Dawkins).  You can see Bosa's right arm swing up at the LT's helmet and hear a WHUMP sound.  After the play, Dawkins is bent over holding his head with one or both hands.  What the heck, did Bosa just slug him in the face as he went by?  Is that legal?

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[thunderingsquid]

[BadLandsMeanie]

16 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

and Mills is totally in the wrong position to do anything but wave as Bosa flies by.

 

I need help to understand why our blocking scheme can be foiled by a guy shifting down the line a few feet.

 

I see what you mean, but there has to be a way to deal with that, right?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I need help to understand why our blocking scheme can be foiled by a guy shifting down the line a few feet.

 

I see what you mean, but there has to be a way to deal with that, right?

 

Of course.  Damn, I wish one of our guys who know more about this would chirp up.

 

There are two issues: what's the protection?  Is it BoB or slide (man or zone, simplistically), who has the responsibility to block which body?

Then, how is the line physically set up at the snap?  Are they lined up on the LOS or further back?

 

Here's a basic article I like.   To the latter point, look at how the line is set up in the stills.  They are more or less evenly spaced in a semi-circle, but you can see the tackles have different foot position with their outside foot back.  This allows the lineman to either take a giant step back and pivot toward the sideline, if he's blocking someone on the outside, or to step up and block someone to the inside if that's his assignment and the guard goes off somewhere else. 

 

Now go back to the Bosa clip, and look at how our right side is positioned at 1 min just before the "he literally didn't block me": the right side appears to me to be closer in, almost shoulders touching, and Mills is parallel to Ducasse and relative to the LOS.   I don't know if this is how he is coached or how he had to line up with the play call to avoid "illegal formation" or just how he lined up, but it seems intuitive to me that if your assignment is to block the guy coming like a runaway freight train from your right, it would help you to be spread out a bit more (look at the left side of the line) and set a bit further back, and if the formation didn't allow that, it's doing the OL no favors.

 

Go further into the article where they show the line post-snap and make the point that the BoB blockers (man to man) are immediately engaging, while the Slide blockers (zone) are waiting to engage whoever enters their space.  Bosa is so fast that there's no time to process.  Whoever has him, has to know it and be ready to go for him pre-snap.  If the protection call allows that, good.  If not, the protection call is doing the OL no favors.

 

Now add in the potential "tell" that someone called out - Peterman's hands may have been going forward just before the snap.  That's also fatal to the OL, because they must hold perfectly still once they're set, until the snap, while the DL just has to stay out of the neutral zone but can "start their engines".  Again, doing the OL no favors.

 

And they needed all the favors they could get because Sweet Jesus Mary and Joseph that Bosa does Bad Things.

 

Caveat that I am not an OL guru and all of the above could be caca.

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[BigDingus]

16 hours ago, Commonsense said:

 

Add Whitworth to LA and subtract Glenn in Buffalo. Incognito has regressed but the difference at LT makes a big difference, See Dallas.

Both guards seem to have regressed, but that can have a LOT to do with proper coaching. 

[GG]

All 22 is clear on this play.  Mills is late getting out of his stance, and by the time he realizes his blocking assignment, Bosa has sprinted by him

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The more I look at that clip, the scarier Bosa looks.  That man is a 6'5", 270 lbs of turf-pounding QB mayhem.  If he plays like that every game, he's got a spot waiting for him in Canton.  There ain't no "let", there ain't no "lack of try", that's what happens when you try to run a 50W OT at 500W: circuits pop, the thing blows out, and it just don't work.  That's what other team's OTs looked like when the lined up across from Bruce Smith in his prime.

 

I have two questions for the knowledgeable here:

1) at 2:09 in that clip, Taylor is "sacked" with a fumble.  When I look at it, it looks as though his arm and the ball were going forward as he threw.  Shouldn't that have been an incomplete forward pass?  If not, can anyone explain?  Why no challenge?  Did our coaches give up, too?

2) at about 1:30 in that clip, Bosa blows by a LT (I think Dawkins).  You can see Bosa's right arm swing up at the LT's helmet and hear a WHUMP sound.  After the play, Dawkins is bent over holding his head with one or both hands.  What the heck, did Bosa just slug him in the face as he went by?  Is that legal?

 

Taylor's arm is going forward with no football in it. Bosa's helmet knocks the ball out well before Taylor's arm is moving forward.

I just wish Taylor played this whole game.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Taylor's arm is going forward with no football in it. Bosa's helmet knocks the ball out well before Taylor's arm is moving forward.

I just wish Taylor played this whole game.

 

I'm unclear on that, but I agree it's possible and another angle would be needed to see it.

 

PS thanks for the meaningful response!!!!!!

 

19 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

Both guards seem to have regressed, but that can have a LOT to do with proper coaching. 

 

This is why I hate PFF grades for the OL.  Wood and Glenn both magically improved under Roman/Kromer when they were blocking next to 'Cog, and Henderson improved when he was no longer blocking next to Pears.  Works both ways - Dawkins is doing 'Cog no favors and Mills and Ducasse are just making each other look bad.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Marty McFly]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm unclear on that, but I agree it's possible and another angle would be needed to see it.

 

PS thanks for the meaningful response!!!!!!

 

 

This is why I hate PFF grades for the OL.  Wood and Glenn both magically improved under Roman/Kromer when they were blocking next to 'Cog, and Henderson improved when he was no longer blocking next to Pears.  Works both ways - Dawkins is doing 'Cog no favors and Mills and Ducasse are just making each other look bad.

 

Right. It really is relative to who they have lined up next to them

[Augie]

I don’t care who the QB is, and I’m not taking a position on our guys. It’s extremely difficult to be an NFL quarterback under those conditions. That was some VERY ugly stuff! 

[Jerry Jabber]

The right side of the O-line has been terrible all year long, that alone should be reason to bench Mills. If Mills purposely let Bosa have free reign on Peterman, then he should be booted off the team.

[Jerome007]

Conspiracy or not, we all can agree Mills did indeed NOT block on that play. 

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Of course.  Damn, I wish one of our guys who know more about this would chirp up.

 

There are two issues: what's the protection?  Is it BoB or slide (man or zone, simplistically), who has the responsibility to block which body?

Then, how is the line physically set up at the snap?  Are they lined up on the LOS or further back?

 

Here's a basic article I like.   To the latter point, look at how the line is set up in the stills.  They are more or less evenly spaced in a semi-circle, but you can see the tackles have different foot position with their outside foot back.  This allows the lineman to either take a giant step back and pivot toward the sideline, if he's blocking someone on the outside, or to step up and block someone to the inside if that's his assignment and the guard goes off somewhere else. 

 

Now go back to the Bosa clip, and look at how our right side is positioned at 1 min just before the "he literally didn't block me": the right side appears to me to be closer in, almost shoulders touching, and Mills is parallel to Ducasse and relative to the LOS.   I don't know if this is how he is coached or how he had to line up with the play call to avoid "illegal formation" or just how he lined up, but it seems intuitive to me that if your assignment is to block the guy coming like a runaway freight train from your right, it would help you to be spread out a bit more (look at the left side of the line) and set a bit further back, and if the formation didn't allow that, it's doing the OL no favors.

 

Go further into the article where they show the line post-snap and make the point that the BoB blockers (man to man) are immediately engaging, while the Slide blockers (zone) are waiting to engage whoever enters their space.  Bosa is so fast that there's no time to process.  Whoever has him, has to know it and be ready to go for him pre-snap.  If the protection call allows that, good.  If not, the protection call is doing the OL no favors.

 

Now add in the potential "tell" that someone called out - Peterman's hands may have been going forward just before the snap.  That's also fatal to the OL, because they must hold perfectly still once they're set, until the snap, while the DL just has to stay out of the neutral zone but can "start their engines".  Again, doing the OL no favors.

 

And they needed all the favors they could get because Sweet Jesus Mary and Joseph that Bosa does Bad Things.

 

Caveat that I am not an OL guru and all of the above could be caca.

 

good post for someone who claims to know nearly nothing.
 

lets say the issue is the QB cannot audible out of a play.  Do the linemen have the freedom to do what is right.

 

Also, does the T have a signal for the guard that i am going to turn this guy outside. Letting the G help  protect that gap just about to be abandoned. ?

 

audibles and pre snap adjustments. Is that the real issue here ?

[YoloinOhio]

Bosa will be playing vs Tyron Smith tomorrow at 4:30. Good matchup while you nosh on pie. 

[TigerJ]

I went back and watched the play right before Bosa's quote a couple of times.  I am no expert on blocking technique, but it's not too hard to figure out that Mills' technique on the play was simply awful.  I know enough to understand that the offensive tackle has to have quick feet to stay in front of the pass rusher.  It did not seem to me like a deliberate wiff on the block.  Mills extended his arms and tried to get his hands on Bosa, but could not stay in front of him as Bosa ripped right by him without even breaking stride, as if Mills were not there at all.  It was downright  embarrassing for Mills.  And that is not to excuse Peterman, who made plenty of bad decisions on his own.  Even when the other team is mounting an effective pass rush, it's on the QB to make good decisions, and Peterman made precious few of them on Sunday.

[FappyTheClown]

This is encouraging.

[3rdand12]

16 minutes ago, FappyTheClown said:

This is encouraging.

Thats the consensus

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

good post for someone who claims to know nearly nothing.
 

lets say the issue is the QB cannot audible out of a play.  Do the linemen have the freedom to do what is right.

 

Also, does the T have a signal for the guard that i am going to turn this guy outside. Letting the G help  protect that gap just about to be abandoned. ?

 

audibles and pre snap adjustments. Is that the real issue here ?

 

 

have you ever seen taylor audible?

 

 

I haven't. I don't think that he can.