JaCrispy Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 Not telling everyone up front that we were rebuilding this year...he should have let KW retire and allowed the fans not to get their hopes up this year...imo that's that REAL reason fans are upset...Had McD just leveled with us, no one would care if Peterman was playing or that we traded away our best talent. By keeping it a gray area, it makes it difficult for fans to come to grips with everything that has gone down imo. Thoughts? 3
teef Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 i can get behind this. not calling it a rebuilding year, along with having some early success has really put a knot in the panties of many a poster. 2
Kirby Jackson Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 Just now, JaCrispy said: Not telling everyone up front that we were rebuilding this year...he should have let KW retire and allowed the fans not to get their hopes up this year...imo that's that REAL reason fans are upset...Had McD just leveled with us, no one would care if Peterman was playing or that we traded away our best talent. By keeping it a gray area, it makes it difficult for fans to come to grips with everything that has gone down imo. Thoughts? I think that you are onto something. If the Bills would have went full tank it would be much easier to take. Deciding to tank while holding a playoff spot, for the team with the longest playoff drought in the 4 major sports, is a tough pill to swallow. I’ve always said that it isn’t about the playoffs it’s about a Super Bowl so I don’t want to be too much of a hypocrite. I just don’t like being lied to. Let’s call it what it is and we will be a little more forgiving. Transparency is really important to me in leadership. That might be McDermott’s worst quality. 1
Peter Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) I suspect that McBeane want to have it both ways. In the event that we do not have a successful season (as appears to be the case), they can fall back on the rebuilding excuse. Personally, I think they are doing what they think they need to do to win this season. They also think that they are smarter than everyone else. Edited November 21, 2017 by Peter
K-9 Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 My thought is that if McD came in on day one and said "this is a rebuilding year" (read: we are throwing in the towel so nobody here has anything worth coaching or playing for this year) then he would have had no locker room at all and he would have enraged at least half the fan base.
Chadwick Bay Chad Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 You guys kill me. If they said it was a rebuilding year, you guys would have tore up the new regime. They are quitting before they get started, whaa whaa whaa. Did anyone really think with the mess he inherited, we would be pushing for a playoff spot? We have won more games than I thought we would and have some bright spots. I am so tired of the tank talk and Sammy this and Sammy that. We were not going to sign Sammy to a long-term contract period. One, the dude is injury prone and two he isn't that good. He is not a 15 million dollar a year player. WE got a # 2 for him plus a decent corner. Nobody wanted Darius and if we get a fifth rounder in the end, it is a good trade.
simool Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 I really don't think McD cares if your panties are bunched or not. In the grand scheme of things it does not matter. He is either going to pull it out in a few years or he won't.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Not telling everyone up front that we were rebuilding this year...he should have let KW retire and allowed the fans not to get their hopes up this year...imo that's that REAL reason fans are upset...Had McD just leveled with us, no one would care if Peterman was playing or that we traded away our best talent. By keeping it a gray area, it makes it difficult for fans to come to grips with everything that has gone down imo. Thoughts? Disagree...I don't think he was "rebuilding" but more building a new culture and mindset here and instilling winning I believe is part of that. His biggest mistake is a simple one. He should have NOT benched Tyrod ahead of Charger game with the Bills sitting in the 6th seed. He should have started Tyrod and PULLED him at half time if he was struggling again. NO ONE would have griped with him trying to spark the offense in a key game for the playoffs. Then if NP sucked like he did, he has a clear path back to Taylor the following week for one last game to try and salvage playoff hopes. TT again struggles and we lose, he can easily now fully switch to Peterman without having "risked" our playoffs on a raw 5th round draft pick with a low comp % in college and poor record to boot. Had NP played well in loss or victory against Chargers, he would have had valid ground to try giving him a full week to prepare as a starter in the next game. His 2nd biggest mistake was NOT pulling Peterman after the 3rd pick when the game was still winnable in the 1st quarter. No one would have blamed him for making a switch back and trying to win the game when the rookie just wasn't being effective and was hurting the team. Ultimately, he had a bunch of win win types ways to play this and found about the only way to lose big in this situation. It was a substantial blunder. 2
JaCrispy Posted November 21, 2017 Author Posted November 21, 2017 39 minutes ago, Dunkirk Don said: You guys kill me. If they said it was a rebuilding year, you guys would have tore up the new regime. They are quitting before they get started, whaa whaa whaa. Did anyone really think with the mess he inherited, we would be pushing for a playoff spot? We have won more games than I thought we would and have some bright spots. I am so tired of the tank talk and Sammy this and Sammy that. We were not going to sign Sammy to a long-term contract period. One, the dude is injury prone and two he isn't that good. He is not a 15 million dollar a year player. WE got a # 2 for him plus a decent corner. Nobody wanted Darius and if we get a fifth rounder in the end, it is a good trade. Not so sure...many fans, including myself, have wanted a rebuild for a while now 1
oldmanfan Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 Since they got here Beane and McD have said they think short and long term.
Lfod Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Not so sure...many fans, including myself, have wanted a rebuild for a while now You should have made this into a poll. I agree with you but it would of been fun to see the results.
LABILLBACKER Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 They panicked with the Tyrod benching. They panicked with the Sammy and Marcel trades. They panicked when they couldn't decide whether to tank for a top qb from the start or try being competitive for the fans. A lot of rookie coach mistakes so far. I'm still giving him 3 full years to turn things around.
Fadingpain Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Peter said: I suspect that McBeane want to have it both ways. In the event that we do not have a successful season (as appears to be the case), they can fall back on the rebuilding excuse. Personally, I think they are doing what they think they need to do to win this season. They also think that they are smarter than everyone else. Disagree. Do not think they are trying to win very much this season at all. Just about every large decision they have taken so far (there have been quite a few of them!) hurts this team in this season. Think about it. Just now, LABILLBACKER said: They panicked with the Tyrod benching. They panicked with the Sammy and Marcel trades. They panicked when they couldn't decide whether to tank for a top qb from the start or try being competitive for the fans. A lot of rookie coach mistakes so far. I'm still giving him 3 full years to turn things around. I think it was just the opposite of a panic, knee-jerk decision to bench Tyrod. It think it was coldly calculated and they were quietly waiting for Tyrod to have 2 bad games in a row...so they could replace him. The benching of Tyrod was a plan that was drawn up before the season started most likely.
Boatdrinks Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Not telling everyone up front that we were rebuilding this year...he should have let KW retire and allowed the fans not to get their hopes up this year...imo that's that REAL reason fans are upset...Had McD just leveled with us, no one would care if Peterman was playing or that we traded away our best talent. By keeping it a gray area, it makes it difficult for fans to come to grips with everything that has gone down imo. Thoughts? Except that no organization will ever admit they are tanking or whatever. If they cut all the high priced vets , then fans could put two and two together. They didn't and the moves they made were schizophrenic, hence the confusion.
Fadingpain Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 9 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Not so sure...many fans, including myself, have wanted a rebuild for a while now Agree with you. There are many Bills fans who are quite OK with the team really sucking this year, as long as it is part of a carefully crafted, long term rebuild that works! The only fans who are pissed off right now or who think McD is doing a bad job are fans who want to win right now and hate the fact that this team could be better than it is, right now. Fans with patience get McD and the process. Fans with little patience and who are desperate to end the drought now don't like McD or the Process. Generally speaking. 2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: Except that no organization will ever admit they are tanking or whatever. If they cut all the high priced vets , then fans could put two and two together. They didn't and the moves they made were schizophrenic, hence the confusion. True enough. Some of Tim Murray's public comments during the Sabres tank seasons were hilarious. The guy could not and would not say "we are trying to lose" even though it was quite obvious that was the case and suggesting otherwise was absolutely ridiculous at times. Didn't stop GMTM from saying ridiculous stuff though! 1 hour ago, K-9 said: My thought is that if McD came in on day one and said "this is a rebuilding year" (read: we are throwing in the towel so nobody here has anything worth coaching or playing for this year) then he would have had no locker room at all and he would have enraged at least half the fan base. Well if he had intended for it to be a rebuilding year, having no locker room at all would have been a good thing, and in fact, that is kind of the point of a rebuilding year. Losing. Especially if the following draft is almost historic in terms of quality depth at the QB position where a high draft pick would be valued more than normal. I do agree at least half the fans would have gone crazy...though what practical implication that has on anything, I don't know. The drunks out at the stadium would still go in their tens of thousands.
Foreigner Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 You are all missing the big picture. Beane and McDermott are both in over their heads. How many years have they been in the NFL and no one has given them a GM or HC position. Whose idea was it to hire these guys. No one seems to know. If it was ownership, to save money with rookie management, the last time I looked the Sabres are again in the basement with a 6 game losing streak, which is hard to do in hockey with OT and shout outs.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: Not telling everyone up front that we were rebuilding this year...he should have let KW retire and allowed the fans not to get their hopes up this year...imo that's that REAL reason fans are upset...Had McD just leveled with us, no one would care if Peterman was playing or that we traded away our best talent. By keeping it a gray area, it makes it difficult for fans to come to grips with everything that has gone down imo. Thoughts? I think keeping vets and trying to win was the right approach.......a QB to develop and breaking the losing culture were jobs 1 and 1A IMO........but I agree that you need to be committed to what you are doing one way or another. They wanted a roster full of veterans filling virtually even all of the depth spots.........but didn't want to keep Watkins or Dareus? How exactly do you WIN without guys that can actually impact games? Now they are old and have only a tiny handful of very young players in development..........and almost nobody in or entering their prime..........this roster is all kindsa' wrong for a team that is rebuilding OR trying to win. 1
xRUSHx Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) IMO his biggest mistake was bringing back Tyrod. Players/fans that only support Tyrod as the starter will cause the arguments and ripple effect of a disfuntial organisation and a split fan base. We already had the Rex/Tyrod vrs McD/Tyrod comparisons, knew this was ripe for comparisons before we even watched one snap. I was against bringing Tyrod back from the start after Rex was fired and here we are no better then we were with Rex/Tyrod with the same record year one. I can see this staff either failing in the exact same way as the last with Tyrod still here for a year 2 or a new era really starting and this team drafting a top QB while moving on from Tyrod. If Tyrod stays here next season IMO McD and his staff is cooked for year 2 just like Rex was with Tyrod here year 2. If it's a new era then start it already. Just like when Mario was here, nothing but a cancer to push the fail. We all thought it would be different with McD here but no it was still Tyrods offense and it turned out to be Rex2.0 because of it. I truly hope we get a fresh new era next season, fingers crossed but not holding my breathe. The groundhogs day that never ends at OBD. Edited November 21, 2017 by xRUSHx 1
blacklabel Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 They sold this season to the fans with their "building to win now and for the future" line to keep us on the hook and watching the games. They did play pretty well in their 5 wins so hopefully that's an indication of what's to come. I do somewhat think that they assumed they were going to lose a bunch of games early and switch over to rookies/younger players by mid-season. But with the 5-2 record they were in great shape, however, all the depth issues and deficiencies in certain departments started showing up as the weeks went by. The defense allows the middle of the field to be exploited constantly. The straight four-man rush never gets home. They tried to switch some things up and that caused the gaps to open up and they started getting shredded for major yards on the ground. Offensively, the scheme is not the best fit for the type of players they have. There were members of this OL that were here when Marrone was around and all he wanted to run was inside zone and it rarely worked and Marrone was too stubborn to change it. Dennison tried to mix in things from Roman's system but in recent weeks it looks like he's gotten away from that. His tendency to involve players like Tolbert and DiMarco on important downs as a way to try and fool the defense, ("They'll never expect the play to go to the fullback!") has been difficult to watch. Early on, turnovers and an opportunistic defense helped get those wins. Plus a few questionable calls that actually went their way. But there were some positive signs which hopefully they can build on. Now, it just looks like they don't have any answers on either side of the ball. Either they're too stubborn to try different things, or too tentative because they feel they'll get burned even worse or the different things they've installed just haven't translated to the field. Another one of their mistakes, I feel, is they haven't done enough in terms of backup plans. Yeah, Marcell was playing 30-40% of the snaps per game but he forces OL's to put two guys on him and that helps free up LBs. They ship him off and who do they have? KW, who we all love but know is ready to call it a day. Washington, who just isn't the type of space-eating DT that Dareus was. Thornton is undersized at his position and they cut Worthy to bring up Coleman who has the size that they would hope can clog up the lanes. Also, continuing to allow Humber to be a starter is baffling. I know Milano is a rookie but he's faster, he seems like he's always around the ball and he was making plays. It's questionable that McD, who states every position must be earned, gives Humber his spot back after Milano clearly outplayed him. Oh, and deciding that the middle of the season when the team was still in the playoff hunt was the right time to start Peterman. That was unfair to both Peterman and Taylor. I know Taylor had started playing it too safely but maybe they needed to sit down with him and start encouraging him to push it down field more. But their concern for ball security seems to take precedent over taking some risks. 18 minutes ago, Foreigner said: You are all missing the big picture. Beane and McDermott are both in over their heads. How many years have they been in the NFL and no one has given them a GM or HC position. Whose idea was it to hire these guys. No one seems to know. If it was ownership, to save money with rookie management, the last time I looked the Sabres are again in the basement with a 6 game losing streak, which is hard to do in hockey with OT and shout outs. McDermott had regularly been making the interview rounds for open HC positions for the last several years until Buffalo hired him. Beane was about to be handed the GM job in Carolina before McDermott convinced him to come here. Both these guys broke into the league without having knowing anyone on the inside. They started at the lowest rung of the ladder and have made it to the top of their respective positions. You don't get a HC/GM job after a couple years in the league.
Foreigner Posted November 21, 2017 Posted November 21, 2017 Stop with the trust the process. In 3 years----------. The NFL is a now league with free agency and other changes. In 1 year the Saints and Rams(who we beat last year) have gone from near the bottom to the top. If ownership had any guts, and apparently they have not come down to the locker room after these 3 blow outs to raise hell and say how embarrassed they are, then they don't know to dump this management now, instead of 2 or 3 more years of bad football. Again, giving away all the talent for damaged goods, a worse D than Ryan and the QB fiasco means they should be gone now. At 5-2 opposing Coaches head enough film on the D to adjust and we did nothing to combat it.
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