Bills clueless about Tyrod Taylor article

[Billsfan1972]

46 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

POINT. SET. MATCH.  You absolutely nailed it ...  as did the original article.  

 

As for Peterman, it seems to me that he was set up to fail, too.   In addition to the limited prep time he had, the game plan he was asked to execute simply wasn't what a sensible HC/OC would provide for a rookie making his first start.  Instead of a simplified plan emphasizing lots of running, max protections, and limited, safe passes to protect the rookie as much as they could, they had Peterman slinging it behind an OL that has been and is playing poorly ... against Joey Bosa and Company ... way too much.  Are they that stupid or did they have another agenda?

 

I am not a conspiracy theory believer by nature.  In fact, I tend to be just the opposite.  However, the Bills have made so many bizarre moves since they put the McDermott-Beane regime in place, that I'm convinced that winning football games -- now, in the immediate future, or ten years down the road -- is simply not on their agenda.  I don't know what their agenda is but obviously it's not winning. 

 

I have no doubt that the Bills -- FO and coaching staff -- have done their best to sabotage Taylor, and I think that throwing Peterman to the wolves in LA on Sunday was part and parcel of it.  They wanted him to throw downfield more than any first time starter should be asked to throw in order to "prove" that the Bills conservative offense in previous games was all Taylor's fault.  It blew up in their faces, and I'm glad of that ... but I'm sorry that Nate Peterman, Tyrod Taylor, and all the rest of the Bills players suffered such humiliation because of the asshats in charge.  I am also beyond angry that the Bills organization has shown such disdain for Bills fans and their loyalty over the years as to not even TRY to win games in a year when making the playoffs in the AFC with a 9-7 record is entirely possible ... and with the Bills even holding some tie-breakers.

 

And for you cretins who want to B word that the rest of the Bills players ought to have played better, understand that most of them simply can't.  They don't have the talent.  Most of the younger talented Bills players from the last couple of years -- "Whaley's mistakes" as you cretins call them -- are scattered around the league playing on playoff bound teams.  The Bills in their infinite wisdom gleaned from seventeen, soon to be eighteen, straight years of avoiding the playoffs, replaced them with scrubs and rookies.

 

It's not reprehensible for a football player to lack talent.  It's the way it is.  It is reprehensible, however, for a football team to not even try to win a game when they are seeded for a playoff slot.

 

 

You get it!!!!  You can not play Peterman this week.  But who knows with these idiots.  The spread right now is KC +9.5.....  I bet it jumps to 12+ if Peterman is named the starter.

[xxxxxxxx]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

POINT. SET. MATCH.  You absolutely nailed it ...  as did the original article.  

 

As for Peterman, it seems to me that he was set up to fail, too.   In addition to the limited prep time he had, the game plan he was asked to execute simply wasn't what a sensible HC/OC would provide for a rookie making his first start.  Instead of a simplified plan emphasizing lots of running, max protections, and limited, safe passes to protect the rookie as much as they could, they had Peterman slinging it behind an OL that has been and is playing poorly ... against Joey Bosa and Company ... way too much.  Are they that stupid or did they have another agenda?

 

I am not a conspiracy theory believer by nature.  In fact, I tend to be just the opposite.  However, the Bills have made so many bizarre moves since they put the McDermott-Beane regime in place, that I'm convinced that winning football games -- now, in the immediate future, or ten years down the road -- is simply not on their agenda.  I don't know what their agenda is but obviously it's not winning. 

 

I have no doubt that the Bills -- FO and coaching staff -- have done their best to sabotage Taylor, and I think that throwing Peterman to the wolves in LA on Sunday was part and parcel of it.  They wanted him to throw downfield more than any first time starter should be asked to throw in order to "prove" that the Bills conservative offense in previous games was all Taylor's fault.  It blew up in their faces, and I'm glad of that ... but I'm sorry that Nate Peterman, Tyrod Taylor, and all the rest of the Bills players suffered such humiliation because of the asshats in charge.  I am also beyond angry that the Bills organization has shown such disdain for Bills fans and their loyalty over the years as to not even TRY to win games in a year when making the playoffs in the AFC with a 9-7 record is entirely possible ... and with the Bills even holding some tie-breakers.

 

And for you cretins who want to B word that the rest of the Bills players ought to have played better, understand that most of them simply can't.  They don't have the talent.  Most of the younger talented Bills players from the last couple of years -- "Whaley's mistakes" as you cretins call them -- are scattered around the league playing on playoff bound teams.  The Bills in their infinite wisdom gleaned from seventeen, soon to be eighteen, straight years of avoiding the playoffs, replaced them with scrubs and rookies.

 

It's not reprehensible for a football player to lack talent.  It's the way it is.  It is reprehensible, however, for a football team to not even try to win a game when they are seeded for a playoff slot.

 

 

The only reasonable explanation that I can muster behind the decision is that they don't think they can beat New England until Bill and Tom retire,  and they feel that the QB position is overvalued from a cap perspective.  More likely than not,  Mcdermott and Beane feel that a fair market contract for an average QB will take up too much cap space so they want someone younger and cheaper. They would rather win the division in 2-3 years than be one and done in the playoffs because doing so would offer both of them more job security. 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by MURPHD6

[BananaB]

Every week when we get behind the announcers comment on how this team can’t play from behind with Taylor because of his passing ability. 

 

Our D was getting torched the past few weeks and Sunday Rivers moved the ball with ease. Didn’t matter where the drive started it ended in points.  Taylor would not of won this game. I could care less about what happened to Peterman, sure will see him again when we are 5-7. Oline sure the !@#$ didn’t help him. Kid wasn’t sitting in the pocket looking for WRs. He made quick decisions and tried to get the ball out but our line couldn’t hold off the pass rush. 

 

We have beat teams that aren’t very good this season. We thought we were better then we are because of what these teams have done in the past. We won these games on the shoulders of our defense. When McDermot said we are better then 5-4, he was right. We should of started 7-0 the way the D was playing early in the season, but our O was !@#$ing terrible against the Panthers and Bengals.  Our O has been struggling all season. All those turnovers and our MVP on O during that stretch was Hauska. 

 

It wasn’t a bad decision to put Peterman in, it was a bad decision to put him in against the Chargers pass rush.  

Edited November 22, 2017 by BananaB

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

The only reasonable explanation that I can muster behind the decision is that they don't think they can beat New England until Bill and Tom retire,  and they feel that the QB position is overvalued from a cap perspective.  More likely than not,  Mcdermott and Beane feel that a fair market contract for an average QB will take up too much cap space so they want someone younger and cheaper. They would rather win the division in 2-3 years than be one and done in the playoffs because doing so would offer both of them more job security. 

 

 

If the players come to believe that McDermott is not playing to win games this season, then he'll lose the locker room if he hasn't already lost it.  Those weren't just losses, they were butt-whippings, each worse than the last.

 

[Comebackkid]

I could be wrong here. ... (disclaimer)  but sitting here thinking about things, it seems beane and mcD have a clear idea of what they want and don't want.  Looking at the trades made,  what we got in return vs what was given foe them. I thing if you don't fit in the box they have created,  you have no real value to them.    I'd put Taylor outside their box, they just don't have an option at the moment. 

[xxxxxxxx]

12 hours ago, Comebackkid said:

I could be wrong here. ... (disclaimer)  but sitting here thinking about things, it seems beane and mcD have a clear idea of what they want and don't want.  Looking at the trades made,  what we got in return vs what was given foe them. I thing if you don't fit in the box they have created,  you have no real value to them.    I'd put Taylor outside their box, they just don't have an option at the moment. 

Absolutely. They have said as much. Reminds my of the cockiness that McDaniels displayed when he took over Denver, and the tire fire that resulted. People complain about passing yards and missed throws, but he more than over compensates for that by protecting the ball, running effectively, and escaping trouble. Clearly, they don't care about the later--and would prefer a guy who hangs in the pocket and tries to make throws. He's not outside their box because they don't like black people , he's outside their box because black quarterbacks who excel at running don't always get credit for how their ability to run helps a team. This is a subtle distinction that most people miss, disregard, or refuse to acknowledge because they think Sean is such a nice guy, and couldn't possibly be racist. But its not an issue of him being a racist, at all, its the metrics that he is using, and the broader history that informs them.

Edited November 23, 2017 by MURPHD6

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, MURPHD6 said:

Absolutely. They have said as much. Reminds my of the cockiness that McDaniels displayed when he took over Denver, and the tire fire that resulted. People complain about passing yards and missed throws, but he more than over compensates for that by protecting the ball, running effectively, and escaping trouble. Clearly, they don't care about the later--and would prefer a guy who hangs in the pocket and tries to make throws. He's not outside their box because they don't like black people , he's outside their box because black quarterbacks who excel at running don't always get credit for how their ability to run helps a team. This is a subtle distinction that most people miss, disregard, or refuse to acknowledge because they think Sean is such a nice guy, and couldn't possibly be racist. But its not an issue of him being a racist, at all, its the metrics that he is using, and the broader history that informs them.

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

 

See the Tampa Bay Game this year. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, BananaB said:

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

 

As 26SB said.........wasn't the case versus Tampa.

 

This year the offense has been gutted of playmaking WR's......and even what should be complementary targets like Clay and Matthews have been unavailable often...........people act like picking up scrap heap Deonte Thompson after he was cut was supposed to give Tyrod an elite deep threat.   His opposite WR corps versusTampa featured Mike Evans and Deshawn Jackson.

 

And last year........in losses where Tyrod started the Bills defense gave up an average of 31 points.....despite almost never having to face short fields because Tyrod didn't turn the ball over..........that's not lights out defense......it's AWFUL defense.

[BananaB]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

As 26SB said.........wasn't the case versus Tampa.

 

This year the offense has been gutted of playmaking WR's......and even what should be complementary targets like Clay and Matthews have been unavailable often...........people act like picking up scrap heap Deonte Thompson after he was cut was supposed to give Tyrod an elite deep threat.   His opposite WR corps versusTampa featured Mike Evans and Deshawn Jackson.

 

And last year........in losses where Tyrod started the Bills defense gave up an average of 31 points.....despite almost never having to face short fields because Tyrod didn't turn the ball over..........that's not lights out defense......it's AWFUL defense.

 

They also gave up on average 17 in games we won with multiple turnovers in all. 

 

And our O has scored 12.5 points per game our losses when Tyrod started. That includes garbage time points against Jets and Saints. 

 

Our D is bad and our O is bad. Both very inconsistent this year but the D is what really helped us win games. 

 

We have one of the worst passing offences in the league, this year and last. Sure there is multiple reasons for this and Taylor is a part of the problem. He may be the best QB we had since Kelly (debatable with Bledsoe)  but it still isn’t enough. 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, BananaB said:

 

They also gave up on average 17 in games we won with multiple turnovers in all. 

 

And our O has scored 12.5 points per game our losses when Tyrod started. That includes garbage time points against Jets and Saints. 

 

Our D is bad and our O is bad. Both very inconsistent this year but the D is what really helped us win games. 

 

We have one of the worst passing offences in the league, this year and last. Sure there is multiple reasons for this and Taylor is a part of the problem. He may be the best QB we had since Kelly (debatable with Bledsoe)  but it still isn’t enough. 

 

 

Last season they were 7th in the NFL in scoring and had the fewest turnovers by an NFL team thru 15 games since the merger........and scored 28 points on average in wins......a very healthy margin of victory......not narrow defensive victories.

 

There have been MANY factors relating to their offensive woes this year and Tyrod is the least of them.

 

Poor coaching on many levels......poor offensive design.......poor play calls.......game-tighteningly conservative calls in numerous games.....and then major matchup issues outside the hashes......no depth at RB.......woeful pass protection. 

 

 

 

[Comebackkid]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Last season they were 7th in the NFL in scoring and had the fewest turnovers by an NFL team thru 15 games since the merger........and scored 28 points on average in wins......a very healthy margin of victory......not narrow defensive victories.

 

There have been MANY factors relating to their offensive woes this year and Tyrod is the least of them.

 

Poor coaching on many levels......poor offensive design.......poor play calls.......game-tighteningly conservative calls in numerous games.....and then major matchup issues outside the hashes......no depth at RB.......woeful pass protection. 

 

im not sure how much it factors in, in Dennisons mind...but I wonder if he has kept the offense vanilla due to the huge turnover this year when it comes to the receivers. what ever the reason Dennison would have hard time schemeing his way out of a paper bag this year.   Regardless of the short comings of the offense...Dennison is doing very little to make it any easier on them.  

 

 

[xxxxxxxx]

23 hours ago, BananaB said:

When we need to pass he can’t. That’s all it comes down too. Unless our D is playing lights out every game we lose, with the exception of a few where we lose when they are playing lights out (Panthers and Bengals). If we are in a close game and we need to score at the end we lose.... It really doesn’t matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can’t win. It’s about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you Ws. Taylor isn’t that guy and he isn’t changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn’t look like that guy Sunday but I wouldn’t judge a guy off one bad game. Especially his first

Aaron Rodgers 1-36 when trailing by 1 point to a team with a winning record in the 4th quarter. When Green Bay needs to pass he can't. That's all it comes down too. Unless the Green Bay D is playing lights out every game Green Bay looses. It really doesn't matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can't win. Its about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you W's. Rodgers isn't that guy and he isn't changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn't look like that guy on Sunday but I wouldn't judge that guy off one bad game. Especially his first.

 

Makes Sense! Let's offer Peterman to Green Bay for Rodgers Straight up.  

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by MURPHD6

[SoTier]

23 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

See the Tampa Bay Game this year. 

 

Don't confuse the haters with facts FCOL!

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, MURPHD6 said:

Aaron Rodgers 1-36 when trailing by 1 point to a team with a winning record in the 4th quarter. When Green Bay needs to pass he can't. That's all it comes down too. Unless the Green Bay D is playing lights out every game Green Bay looses. It really doesn't matter how close you are at the end of the game if you still can't win. Its about making changes and finding something that consistently gets you W's. Rodgers isn't that guy and he isn't changing, he is who he is. Peterman definitely didn't look like that guy on Sunday but I wouldn't judge that guy off one bad game. Especially his first.

 

Makes Sense! Let's offer Peterman to Green Bay for Rodgers Straight up.  

 

 

 

But does Rodgers fit the OC's philosophy and is he a McDermott guy?  Remember it is all about their character and playing their system!!!!

[transplantbillsfan]

Lost in this thread and all of the criticism of the writing itself is the fact that it contains a whole lot of truths about Taylor:

 

- There are coaches who adamantly prefer system over player and there are coaches have a lot more flexibility and creativity who design schemes around those players that they already have. Goff, Watson, Smith and Wentz are used as examples. Our current coaches are clearly the former rather than the latter.

 

-  Tyrod does miss open receivers. But so does every other QB in the NFL. But "number of open receivers missed per game" still is not a statistic that they track as far, as I know. So a lot of the talk about Taylor missing "too many" open receivers just seems like a stab in the dark unless you're comparing him with some kind of NFL norm.

 

- All of the arguments that Taylor always throws too short of the sticks in comparison to other NFL QBs seems to be shot down as Next Gen Stats notes he's right in the middle of the pack in terms of air yards to the sticks.

 

- In fact, since 2015 Taylor's 3rd down passes have traveled an average of 10.1 yards through the air which is 3rd best in the league.

 

- The Bills are so awful on 1st and 2nd down that the 3rd worst team in the NFL in terms of distance to go on 3rd down.

 

- Despite that, somehow Taylor still has the 9th best 3rd down conversion % on 3rd down plays.

 

 

I can also add that Taylor's improved in varying degrees on things people really criticized him for in his first couple years. Throwing in that intermediate middle range (10-20 yards) of the football field is really not a big issue or even topic of discussion anymore because he's throwing there more and throwing there effectively. 

 

He still has work to do in the pocket, but he's also really improved there.

 

 

 I don't know that it's really fair to say that the Bills are clueless about Taylor yet because the rest of the season has yet to unfold and it will be interesting to see what happens in the off-season. I understand wanting to see Peterman to see if he could be better, although it's a little disturbing that the coaches  legitimately thought he might be better after watching and then practice for this whole time. Then again, it seems to go back to one of those things in the first bullet point having to do with scheming for your players. Dennison obviously doesn't like to do that. 

 

One thing's for sure though. There seems to be a lot of clueless Bills fans.

Edited November 25, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Tampa or the Titans?  The Titans game was was won by TT all alone 

 

Tenny was a team that had 3 wins that season IIRC and Buffalo squeaked  out a win 

[Comebackkid]

25 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Lost in this thread and all of the criticism of the writing itself is the fact that it contains a whole lot of truths about Taylor:

 

- There are coaches who adamantly prefer system over player and there are coaches have a lot more flexibility and creativity who design schemes around those players that they already have. Goff, Watson, Smith and Wentz are used as examples. Our current coaches are clearly the former rather than the latter.

 

-  Tyrod does miss open receivers. But so does every other QB in the NFL. But "number of open receivers missed per game" still is not a statistic that they track as far, as I know. So a lot of the talk about Taylor missing "too many" open receivers just seems like a stab in the dark unless you're comparing him with some kind of NFL norm.

 

- All of the arguments that Taylor always throws too short of the sticks in comparison to other NFL QBs seems to be shot down as Next Gen Stats notes he's right in the middle of the pack in terms of air yards to the sticks.

 

- In fact, since 2015 Taylor's 3rd down passes have traveled an average of 10.1 yards through the air which is 3rd best in the league.

 

- The Bills are so awful on 1st and 2nd down that the 3rd worst team in the NFL in terms of distance to go on 3rd down.

 

- Despite that, somehow Taylor still has the 9th best 3rd down conversion % on 3rd down plays.

 

 

I can also add that Taylor's improved in varying degrees on things people really criticized him for in his first couple years. Throwing in that intermediate middle range (10-20 yards) of the football field is really not a big issue or even topic of discussion anymore because he's throwing there more and throwing there effectively. 

 

He still has work to do in the pocket, but he's also really improved there.

 

 

 I don't know that it's really fair to say that the Bills are clueless about Taylor yet because the rest of the season has yet to unfold and it will be interesting to see what happens in the off-season. I understand wanting to see Peterman to see if he could be better, although it's a little disturbing that the coaches  legitimately thought he might be better after watching and then practice for this whole time. Then again, it seems to go back to one of those things in the first bullet point having to do with scheming for your players. Dennison obviously doesn't like to do that. 

 

One thing's for sure though. There seems to be a lot of clueless Bills fans.

good post and well said.   the problem is that someone says something...either on here or some media talking head and then someone repeats it and then suddenly its gospel truth...  Then these supposed truths which were never truths to begin with randomly get thrown out with no foresight to it actually being a valid statement.   

 

Tyrod sux.

 Tyrod doenst throw to the middle of the field

Tyrod is bad under pressure

Tyrod is just a back up qb

Tyrod is one of the worst qbs in the league

Tyrod has horrible acuracy

 

just a few of the myths that get tossed around as fact 

 

As far as the Bills being clueless about Tyrod...  you could take as the Bills being clueless on how to actually use him or my preference would be that the

Bills are clueless about his actual value as a qb...which in part reverts back to the first option.

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Comebackkid

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:44 AM, Billsfan1972 said:

Because he's not ready, was a 5th round pick and needs a lot more coaching.  Fifth round rookies do not start for NFL teams in a playoff position or when the starter is healthy........

 

Never ever happened until the Bills genius coach did it!!!!!!

 

And you wonder why the national media was laughing before the 5 ints!!!!!!

 

Funny because by most accounts that's the entire reason Peterman was such a steal in the 5th round and why some projected him in the first few rounds:

 

He was the most NFL ready QB, remember?

[transplantbillsfan]

On 11/21/2017 at 3:46 PM, ScottLaw said:

I've said it since last year.

 

Ill never understand the Tyrod hate. He's solid. He had one **** game against the Saints and the pitch forks were out. 

 

Keep him until you have something better.

 

Yep, one **** game against the Saints, he gets benched for it, and karma comes back and really bites the guy who benched him in the butt