Mat68 Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 This is the reason they made the trades and moves they made. Clear space and add capital. The young foundation on the team was not the style or type of player they wanted to build around. The best players on the team are or were in their 2 or 3 contracts. The 5 picks in the first 3 rounds should help fill that talent hole.
SoTier Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 14 hours ago, Gugny said: I agree. But I think "the process" is to go from the oldest team in the NFL to the youngest and let them develop together. That's my hope, anyway. Once Beane and McD were hired, I convinced myself that 2019 was the year for this team to be a contender. And I'm totally cool with that. Contend for what? The overall #1 pick? The Bills haven't had one of those since 1985, so they're due. 11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Getting rid of another all pro is pointless . especially one that will be going to Canton one day. Shady is our team at this point. He catches the ball at a high rate and is obviously phenomenal running creating more holes is pointless. Especially because shady has bought in to the process It may be pointless but it looks to be the new "Bills way" which is apparently even stupider than the old "Bills way" of previous regimes. They'll probably trade him for a 4th or a 6th that could become a 5th. Watch Clay and Glenn go, too, for bargain basement prices. All the "Whaley's Mistakes" gotta go -- they make McDermott's scrubs look bad. 10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Overall a fine post, but I do have some disagreements. I don't think they have much of a chance to move up to #2. As it stands, the first two teams in the draft are likely to have extreme needs at QB. If we move up, it will likely be to grab the #3 or #4 QB. My guess is that they will have some of that extra draft capital left over even assuming they go QB in the first. I think you're undervaluing Ducasse. Joe B has ranked him pretty decently in his play by play film analysis. Had him ranked as the best Bill on the field last week. I'm not thrilled with him but the need there isn't as bad as it is at RT and LB and CB. I'm also not as down on Cordy Glenn as you are. He was on the field a lot early in his career. His injury has kept him off the field lately but it seems to be one injury that's taking a lot of time rather than that he's injury-prone by nature. I'm still very hopeful that he could be in our future plans which would leave Dawkins available to maybe fill a hole elsewhere if he proves capable of doing so. Yeah, it'll all need time. And yeah there are a lot of weaknesses on this roster. But IMHO the draft will be better than you're predicting and being in the second year of our systems will help more than most people think. Ducasse has failed everywhere else he's been, even as a backup OG. After 8 or 9 years in the league, he didn't "blossom". That he could possibly be rated as the best OLer on the field even for one game is an indictment of Castillo the OL coach and Dennison's zone blocking system. It doesn't fit the guys they've got, and the OL is too important to just throw away decent OLers because the OC/OL coach aren't bright enough to adapt to the players they have on the roster. I totally agree about Cordy Glenn. Ankle/foot injuries are always problematic because both are complex structures that take a lot of stress, and usually take a long time to heal. Unfortunately, I think that Glenn's be sent packing because, well, there's a consensus among the personnel mavens on TBD, sports talk radio, and at sports bars that he IS accident prone ... and he's a hold over from the Whaley era ... and he makes a lot of money that he's not earning because he's hurt "all the time". 54 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: This year won't get better but we will get a lot of the guys we need next year. They wanted to win this year but they had to get rid of guys who didn't buy in or fit. We did well with the "talent" we have but once the league figured us out we just don't have the horses to do it. How, exactly, do you figure it's possible to get "a lot of the guys we need next year"? I believe that the bust rate for players taken in the first three rounds of the draft is about 50%. The success rate for players taken in rounds 4-7 is maybe 20 percent, and a lot of that "success" will be as STers and backups. Furthermore, there's no guarantee that players that fill the Bills needs will be available when they draft ... of course, at the rate the Bills are making holes in their roster, just about any position will fill a need by the draft. Oh, and that's assuming the Bills don't send a truckload of draft picks to take a shot at a top five QB. Edited November 22, 2017 by SoTier
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 1 minute ago, SoTier said: Contend for what? The overall #1 pick? The Bills haven't had one of those since 1985, so they're due. It may be pointless but it looks to be the new "Bills way" which is apparently even stupider than the old "Bills way" of previous regimes. They'll probably trade him for a 4th or a 6th that could become a 5th. Watch Clay and Glenn go, too, for bargain basement prices. All the "Whaley's Mistakes" gotta go -- they make McDermott's scrubs look bad. Ducasse has failed everywhere else he's been, even as a backup OG. After 8 or 9 years in the league, he didn't "blossom". That he could possibly be rated as the best OLer on the field even for one game is an indictment of Castillo the OL coach and Dennison's zone blocking system. It doesn't fit the guys they've got, and the OL is too important to just throw away decent OLers for because the OC/OL coach aren't bright enough to adapt to the players they have on the roster. I totally agree about Cordy Glenn. Ankle/foot injuries are always problematic because both are complex structures that take a lot of stress, and usually take a long time to heal. Unfortunately, I think that Glenn's gone because, well, there's a consensus among the personnel mavens on TBD, sports talk radio, and at sports bars that he IS accident prone ... and he's a hold over from the Whaley era ... and he makes a lot of money that he's not earning because he's hurt "all the time". How, exactly, do you figure it's possible to get "a lot of the guys we need next year"? I believe that the bust rate for players taken in the first three rounds of the draft is about 50%. The success rate for players taken in rounds 4-7 is maybe 20 percent, and a lot of that "success" will be as STers and backups. Furthermore, there's no guarantee that players that fill the Bills needs will be available when they draft ... of course, at the rate the Bills are making holes in their roster, just about any position will fill a need by the draft. Oh, and that's assuming the Bills don't send a truckload of draft picks to take a shot at a top five QB. Because if we get the guys I stated we will be just fine.
SoTier Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Because if we get the guys I stated we will be just fine. If you think that signing Kirk Cousins and drafting a guard and 2 DTs is going to solve the Bills problems on both sides of the ball, you're delusional. The Bills pretty much need an entirely new front 7 on defense unless they do something drastic like fire McDermott. As with the OL, the DLers and LBs who were at least serviceable in last couple of years are struggling. I doubt that the Bills FO wants to do start over so soon, but if McDermott's lost/loses the locker room, which is a real possibility, then they may have to.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, SoTier said: If you think that signing Kirk Cousins and drafting a guard and 2 DTs is going to solve the Bills problems on both sides of the ball, you're delusional. The Bills pretty much need an entirely new front 7 on defense unless they do something drastic like fire McDermott. As with the OL, the DLers and LBs who were at least serviceable in last couple of years are struggling. I doubt that the Bills FO wants to do start over so soon, but if McDermott's lost/loses the locker room, which is a real possibility, then they may have to. We were just fine until Marcy got traded. Fire McDermott , now who is delusional. Edited November 23, 2017 by Buffalo Barbarian
BillsFan130 Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 On 2017-11-20 at 8:34 PM, McBean said: That's why you give Beane and McDermott 5 years minimum. Turnover the past decade hasn't helped matters either. Why do you give them 5 years minimum? If you are the Browns do you give Hue Jackson another 3 years minimum?
SoTier Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: Why do you give them 5 years minimum? If you are the Browns do you give Hue Jackson another 3 years minimum? The Bills hired this pair, so they must be worthy of at least 5 years' opportunity to extend the drought beyond its current length. Edited November 22, 2017 by SoTier
BillsFan130 Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 53 minutes ago, SoTier said: The Bills hired this pair, so they must be worthy of at least 5 years' opportunity to extend the drought beyond its current length. 5 years in my opinion is way too long if there is no positive direction after a couple years
Helpmenow Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 That means half the current team will be gone
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: This year won't get better but we will get a lot of the guys we need next year. They wanted to win this year but they had to get rid of guys who didn't buy in or fit. We did well with the "talent" we have but once the league figured us out we just don't have the horses to do it. ...in a pretty well known (look at the 5-11 or 6-10 "at best" prognosticators here) highly transitional year, the 5-2 quick start erased any thought of transitional or rebuilding........and then came the "crashing back to earth" reality....17 years of "irrational exuberance" DOES play mind games....FO & Administration was a much needed overhaul as was HC with "Culture Change 101" as a mandate....then personnel issues, starting off with 23 UFA's mostly one year rentals as Whaley tried to plug holes in the roster.....NONE of these hurdles logically added up to a 5-2 start and now the three game butt kicking skid says "reality bites"............ Edited November 22, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
BillsfanAZ Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/20/2017 at 4:30 PM, ndirish1978 said: I originally put this in another thread, then, because I am a special snowflake I erased the post and decided my 5 minutes of effort was worthy of it's own thread. This team will be devoid of talent for a while. All those picks we have now are going to get packaged to try and get the 2nd pick of the draft. As a result, if we land 3 starters in next year's draft I would be shocked. We have a tremendous need of at least 10 new players just to field a non-trash roster. Be prepared to start next season looking at the roster and saying "who is that starter?" Positions that will have to be addressed this offseason are in red. Offense - we have FIVE positions of extreme need with one decent player likely being replaced by someone on the roster. QB -Tyrod - GONE RB - Shady - Over 30 and has no backup WR - Kelvin Benjamin - 1 more year on contract WR - Jordan Matthews - Injured and would need to be re-signed or replaced WR - Zay Jones - Here for the foreseeable future TE - Charles Clay - perennially injured. Back ups are not great. Needs to be replaced T - Cordy Glenn - Can't find the field because of injury - Big cap number - Might be supplanted by Dawkins G - Richie Incognito - 34 yrs old C - Eric Wood - 31 - signed an extension this offseason G - Vlad the Turnstile - Please get him off my team. Miller is equally bad. T - Jordan Mills - See Vlad above Defense - Ideally we would replace the whole D-Line. Realistically - we're stuck with at least 2 of them. That leaves us with FIVE immediate needs on D. DE - Shaq Lawson - He's not going anywhere next year DT - Adolphus Washington - Should be a rotational player, but will start here next year. DT - Kyle Williams - Will retire DE - Jerry Hughes - Poor production, can't survive being the only pass rushing threat. Should be moved, but will stay because who else do we have- unless we manage to trade him. OLB - Lorenzo Alexander - Nice guy, shouldn't be starting MLB - Preston Brown - Nope OLB - Ramon Humber - Average, needs to be replaced. Matt Milano should be depth, not a starter CB - Tre White - So far this is the first player on the team I'm happy about CB - EJ Gaines/Shareece Wright - Gaines can't stay healthy and Wright is not amazing S - Jordan Poyer - Starter S - Micah Hyde - Starter I agree with most of this. I think EJ Gaines makes a big difference when he is playing. I think Glenn solidifies the left side when he is healthy. The right side of the line needs an over haul and there needs to be more depth at RB and CB.
SoTier Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, billsfan11 said: 5 years in my opinion is way too long if there is no positive direction after a couple years I was being sarcastic, which is why I put in the part about extending the drought. I have seen nothing from these two yet that sugges that either one is competent to hold their current position beyond this season, at least not with control over player personnel. Edited November 22, 2017 by SoTier
BillsFan130 Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 40 minutes ago, SoTier said: I was being sarcastic, which is why I put in the part about extending the drought. I have seen nothing from these two yet that sugges that either one is competent to hold their current position beyond this season, at least not with control over player personnel. Lol oh sorry buddy. Didn't catch the sarcasm. And yes I agree 100 percent
Bangarang Posted November 22, 2017 Posted November 22, 2017 5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: This year won't get better but we will get a lot of the guys we need next year. They wanted to win this year but they had to get rid of guys who didn't buy in or fit. We did well with the "talent" we have but once the league figured us out we just don't have the horses to do it. McD won’t get fired this year anyway. I firmly believe he will get 3 years to turn things around. He and B.B. are going to need to strike gold with a lot of our draft picks if we even have a shot. 1
Just in Atlanta Posted November 23, 2017 Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) That’s ironic, because if 17 years of history - and our fickle, impatient fandom - prove correct, that’s the time when the head coach, and entire coaching staff, will be fired. Then, the new guys will have their own (much better) schemes to implement, starting the process all over again, and getting us all excited again. That is, of course, unless the owners keep continuity, regardless of any inevitable ire from fans like us. That’s doubtful. Many of us were (hypocritically) wanting McD’s shiny bald head on a silver platter after wrongly picking Peterman as the starter, despite the fact that 85% of us wanted it in the first place. Edited November 23, 2017 by Just in Atlanta
Thurman#1 Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 On 11/23/2017 at 3:57 AM, SoTier said: Ducasse has failed everywhere else he's been, even as a backup OG. After 8 or 9 years in the league, he didn't "blossom". That he could possibly be rated as the best OLer on the field even for one game is an indictment of Castillo the OL coach and Dennison's zone blocking system. It doesn't fit the guys they've got, and the OL is too important to just throw away decent OLers because the OC/OL coach aren't bright enough to adapt to the players they have on the roster. I totally agree about Cordy Glenn. Ankle/foot injuries are always problematic because both are complex structures that take a lot of stress, and usually take a long time to heal. Unfortunately, I think that Glenn's be sent packing because, well, there's a consensus among the personnel mavens on TBD, sports talk radio, and at sports bars that he IS accident prone ... and he's a hold over from the Whaley era ... and he makes a lot of money that he's not earning because he's hurt "all the time". I don't care about Ducasse's past. He's playing pretty decently right now. That's a good thing. My guess is that they keep Glenn, but we'll see. Adapting to the players you have on the roster isn't the holy grail people here want to make it out to be. It's something you do if you have a weakness when you're good enough to really compete for a title. But in a team in our situation building a system that works for the long term is the key, not performing well in the first year. When you switch schemes one of the main things you do in the first year is see who fits and who doesn't so you can start to assemble the right guys. You don't turn away from the new system you're building so you can maximize this year's performance while not preparing guys for what will be expected next year and beyond.
ALF Posted November 25, 2017 Posted November 25, 2017 (edited) If the Bills trade up for a QB it may take longer then 3 years and that's ok with me. No more scheme changes (except OL) If only a good QB fell to the Bills without trading up the rebuild would speed up. Edited November 25, 2017 by ALF added comment
ndirish1978 Posted November 27, 2017 Author Posted November 27, 2017 On 11/22/2017 at 2:47 AM, QCity said: If you think we're going to be building a team through FA, you haven't been paying attention. This. We're not bringing in high-priced FAs. On 11/25/2017 at 6:47 AM, ALF said: If the Bills trade up for a QB it may take longer then 3 years and that's ok with me. No more scheme changes (except OL) If only a good QB fell to the Bills without trading up the rebuild would speed up. That's never gonna happen. Agreed though, if we get a good QB with our first pick next year I'm ok with the rebuild. We're going to need to tread water on D, draft QB, OL, WR.
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