1 play from yesterday that tells you why Dennison can't be here anymore

[BillsFan130]

28 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'll say it again, since it's true ... the line is far worse, as are the receivers.

 

This isn't about Tyrod Taylor.  It's not the same personnel on the line OR at Wide Receiver.  And we don't have the same personnel in the run game either.

 

Did you not notice all of the players who were cut or traded since the end of last season??  Just because Shady is still here doesn't mean, "we have the same personnel in the run game."  That's stupid.

Talent aside, are you defending Dennison and think he's a descent o coordinator who runs a good scheme with a creative playbook?

[BigPappy]

14 minutes ago, Hebert19 said:

Well.  In his defense he calls the play in a lot of cases without knowing the personnel on the other side...and it's up to the qb to audible to the run.   Peterman should see that and switch to a run.  That's what a vet would have done. 

 

Our QB's are not allowed to audible. Dennison has never let his QB's audible out of a play. Not even i his previous OC positions.

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Talent aside, are you defending Dennison and think he's a descent o coordinator who runs a good scheme with a creative playbook?

 

I'm not defending anyone.  I'm simply stating that this team is a !@#$ing dumpster fire and there's not a coaching staff in the world who could make them any better.  The team is devoid of talent and they suck.

[BillsFan130]

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I'm not defending anyone.  I'm simply stating that this team is a !@#$ing dumpster fire and there's not a coaching staff in the world who could make them any better.  The team is devoid of talent and they suck.

I agree they have no talent. But Dennison doesn't get a free pass because there is no talent. He's simply awful.

 

And I wasn't attacking you for the record, was just asking you a legit question if you liked Dennison or not. Sorry if it came across wrong

[Gugny]

Just now, billsfan11 said:

I agree they have no talent. But Dennison doesn't get a free pass because there is no talent. He's simply awful.

 

And I wasn't attacking you for the record, was just asking you a legit question if you liked Dennison or not. Sorry if it came across wrong

 

No, man, no worries.  Nothing came across wrong.  I can't tell if Dennison is that bad, or not.  I don't like the fact that he doesn't seem to let his QBs audible.

 

But he's also been cursed with a horrible QB situation.  I doubt he WANTS to call a lot of plays that he's calling, but he can't trust Tyrod to make the plays that he'd normally call.  It's the same reason I thought Roman got !@#$ed.

[Big Turk]

25 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

So THAT was the play?  I thought it was about a couple of dozen other ones!  By the way...I was there yesterday...and was SCREAMING for Brandon Tate to take a *&*&&ing knee in the end zone....but no, he just had to keep coming out short of the 25 yard line.  This team is a mess!

 

That was so egregious from a football basics standpoint it was mind boggling. Like a coach in pop warner would know to run the ball there let alone a seasoned OC in the NFL...

[Livinginthepast]

TT cannot audible correct? There is no way in hell they would have let Peterman do it. I guess when the play is called Dennison expects that play to be run. If he had seen something obvious from the D they were opening up he would have buzzed down to Peterman's helmet head set to change the play. He was up in the booth yesterday so he has no excuse. Unless of course that he just isn't very good at his job

[BillsFan130]

9 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

No, man, no worries.  Nothing came across wrong.  I can't tell if Dennison is that bad, or not.  I don't like the fact that he doesn't seem to let his QBs audible.

 

But he's also been cursed with a horrible QB situation.  I doubt he WANTS to call a lot of plays that he's calling, but he can't trust Tyrod to make the plays that he'd normally call.  It's the same reason I thought Roman got !@#$ed.

Ya man I for sure hear you about the lack of talent. I do see a few problems with Rico though.

 

Last year the Bills had an average to above average offence, with roughly the same amount of talent. I will say the Bills had slightly more talent last year because of Watkins, although he missed a lot of games. Woods/Matthews to me are pretty equal and Woods missed games last year just like Matthews missed games this year. So overall pretty similar in terms of talent, but like I said I'll give the edge to last year by a bit .

 

And now this year they are bottom 5, and probably closer to bottom 3. He just completely changed the scheme that does not suit TT or McCoy, and it obviously isn't working out. Just no variety at all, predictable play calling, and has a scheme that doesn't fit his players. Almost like a "my way or the highway" approach. I think that is bad coaching.... I will never disagree with you in saying they have little talent, because that's 100 percent true. But I also think Rico is a big problem and the stats reflect it when you compare last years offence to this years

 

 

 

 

I

[GunnerBill]

I think this is symptomatic of a larger issue - Dennison is not a fan of his QBs audibling at the line.  The play call will have gone in before they saw the defense.  His Quarterback - even when it was Tyrod - is not allowed to see that and adjust.  It means you are missing opportunities.  

[Bill from NYC]

16 hours ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

We will almost certainly move on from Dennison after this season but it's crucial we make the right hire especially if that guy is going to be working with NP and/or a 1st round draft pick.

Are we talking about the NFL or Wendy's?

[GunnerBill]

14 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Ya man I for sure hear you about the lack of talent. I do see a few problems with Rico though.

 

Last year the Bills had an average to above average offence, with roughly the same amount of talent. I will say the Bills had slightly more talent last year because of Watkins, although he missed a lot of games. Woods/Matthews to me are pretty equal and Woods missed games last year just like Matthews missed games this year. So overall pretty similar in terms of talent, but like I said I'll give the edge to last year by a bit .

 

And now this year they are bottom 5, and probably closer to bottom 3. He just completely changed the scheme that does not suit TT or McCoy, and it obviously isn't working out. Just no variety at all, predictable play calling, and has a scheme that doesn't fit his players. Almost like a "my way or the highway" approach. I think that is bad coaching.... I will never disagree with you in saying they have little talent, because that's 100 percent true. But I also think Rico is a big problem and the stats reflect it when you compare last years offence to this years

 

 

They are not "nearly the same". 

 

- They have had by far their best offensive lineman properly healthy twice - Raider and Buccs.... not coincidentally the run game and the offense as a whole looked much more like last season those two weeks, no?

- John Miller played well last season and they have got massively worse at RG.... Miller is one player where I will say "that was scheme" leading to his struggles and now they have gone to a much more varied run game with lots more Greg Roman concepts in there they should put him back in, but Ducasse is playing because he is Castillo's guy.  Castillo is McDermott's mate and was hired before Rico.  He is going nowhere. 

- They had a genuine 1-2 punch in the backfield, whereas this year their number 2 back is an out of his depth full back who is mates with the Head Coach. 

- The receiving options have been worse.  I didn't love last year's receivers but through the first 7 weeks prior to the Jets game they had a struggling rookie, no Clay for a period of weeks and sometimes Jordan Matthews.  I mean it was bleak.  Where they are NOW with the receivers is potentially an upgrade on last year.... if they can ever get them all on the field together.  

 

I'm not absolving Dennison of blame, not at all.  I think he has done about an average job so far.  The offense in my mind has had a few games where it has outperformed its talent and a few where it has majorly underperformed its talent.  I don't like that he doesn't allow his QBs to audible and I don't like that they have tried to pigeon hole Tyrod into a scheme that doesn't properly fit him (something I was constantly told I was wrong about in pre-season, I wasn't, this offense does not fit Tyrod) but that has got to be partly on McDermott as well.  The one thing I think is a fireable offense from Dennison is if the reports that he pushed for the QB change at this stage are correct.  If he did when the team was in the playoff hunt and about to play its most important game of the year then he should fall on his sword for that misjudgment at the end of the season.  But the talent on this offense, hell this team, is really, really bad folks.  People can moan about coordinators all they like.  Some of us said pre-season this was a bottom 10 roster in terms of talent and that was before the Sammy trade and the Dareus trade.  That is what it looks like now and it is a bit harsh to pin that all on the coordinators.  

[BillsFan130]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

They are not "nearly the same". 

 

- They have had by far their best offensive lineman properly healthy twice - Raider and Buccs.... not coincidentally the run game and the offense as a whole looked much more like last season thoseincognito two weeks, no?

- John Miller played well last season and they have got massively worse at RG.... Miller is one player where I will say "that was scheme" leading to his struggles and now they have gone to a much more varied run game with lots more Greg Roman concepts in there they should put him back in, but Ducasse is playing because he is Castillo's guy.  Castillo is McDermott's mate and was hired before Rico.  He is going nowhere. 

- They had a genuine 1-2 punch in the backfield, whereas this year their number 2 back is an out of his depth full back who is mates with the Head Coach. 

- The receiving options have been worse.  I didn't love last year's receivers but through the first 7 weeks prior to the Jets game they had a struggling rookie, no Clay for a period of weeks and sometimes Jordan Matthews.  I mean it was bleak.  Where they are NOW with the receivers is potentially an upgrade on last year.... if they can ever get them all on the field together.  

 

I'm not absolving Dennison of blame, not at all.  I think he has done about an average job so far.  The offense in my mind has had a few games where it has outperformed its talent and a few where it has majorly underperformed its talent.  I don't like that he doesn't allow his QBs to audible and I don't like that they have tried to pigeon hole Tyrod into a scheme that doesn't properly fit him (something I was constantly told I was wrong about in pre-season, I wasn't, this offense does not fit Tyrod) but that has got to be partly on McDermott as well.  The one thing I think is a fireable offense from Dennison is if the reports that he pushed for the QB change at this stage are correct.  If he did when the team was in the playoff hunt and about to play its most important game of the year then he should fall on his sword for that misjudgment at the end of the season.  But the talent on this offense, hell this team, is really, really bad folks.  People can moan about coordinators all they like.  Some of us said pre-season this was a bottom 10 roster in terms of talent and that was before the Sammy trade and the Dareus trade.  That is what it looks like now and it is a bit harsh to pin that all on the coordinators.  

I think the talent was pretty similar to be honest. Offensive line they had injuries last year as well. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't wood miss the last 6 or 7 games or so, and I believe cordy glenn was in and out of the lineup as well. Once again correct me if I'm wrong but I think that was the case.

 

Miller is not a fit for his scheme, and it also appears that the whole offence isn't with the exception of maybe dawkins and incognito. Once again I will put blame on Rico for that because there was no reason to completely chance the offence from last year, especially the run game.

 

Take out the Wrs and a  backup RB and lets focus on the run game. How do you explain the massive drop off in rush yards from the past 2 seasons to this year?

 

1 and 2 ranked the past 2 years to average now.

 

You can say O line all you want, but they had injuries as well last 2 years so that cant be an excuse.

 

I`ll explain the massive drop off. Rico Dennison and his zone run scheme that are not meant for his players. He is a stubborn old school coach who doesn't seem to adjust.

 

And the reason why they ran well against Tampa? Because it actually looked similar to last years run scheme. Then he stopped doing it for whatever reason

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

 

And the reason why they ran well against Tampa? Because it actually looked similar to last years run scheme. Then he stopped doing it for whatever reason

 

No. They are still doing it.  They are just not executing it as well.  

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. They are still doing it.  They are just not executing it as well.  

 

those 2 runs that got us in the endzone from Shady last game were both runs from last year.

[Alphadawg7]

Im not a big proponent of firing new staff members in their first season before its even over.  But there have been some exceptions...one that should have been fired in the first half of the season was Hackett...he was no where ready to be a OC at the NFL level and might have been the single worst play caller I have ever seen.

 

Enter Dennison...my most recent exception.  For every time you see him actually call a good drive, you see about 10 stupid ones at least.  I am grossly underwhelmed with his prior resume, and his use of personnel, inability to adjust until the game is out of reach, and over all stubbornness to stick with whats not working is incredibly frustrating.  Add in situations like the one outlined in the OP of this thread, as well as many other just mind blowing moments of stupidity, and I am on board with the fire Dennison train.  

 

Look, its not fair to put the woes of this team squarely on him, it sucks across the board right now.  But, what I have watched him do is a really poor job period.  Not to mention, he's somehow managed to dismantle what was the top rushing attack in the NFL over the last 2 years with largely the same pieces in place, especially the key ones.  I am just not a fan of his personnel decisions, game management, play calling, lack of adjustments, etc.  The list of things I feel he is doing poorly is just too long for me to ignore.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

those 2 runs that got us in the endzone from Shady last game were both runs from last year.

 

The first one definitely was. Haven't seen a head on replay of the 2nd one yet.  

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Look, its not fair to put the woes of this team squarely on him, it sucks across the board right now.  But, what I have watched him do is a really poor job period.  Not to mention, he's somehow managed to dismantle what was the top rushing attack in the NFL over the last 2 years with largely the same pieces in place, especially the key ones.  I am just not a fan of his personnel decisions, game management, play calling, lack of adjustments, etc.  The list of things I feel he is doing poorly is just too long for me to ignore.

 

Like the best player on their offensive line?  Like their change of pace back?  Like one of the best blocking outside WRs in the league?  I think some key pieces are different.  

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The first one definitely was. Haven't seen a head on replay of the 2nd one yet.  

 

Like the best player on their offensive line?  Like their change of pace back?  Like one of the best blocking outside WRs in the league?  I think some key pieces are different.  

 

Our run game was not dominant the last 2 seasons because of the change of pace back, in fact, one of those change of pace backs already washed out of the league and the other is contributing very little on a Pats team where he got early shot of taking over RB duties and didn't seal the deal.  So lets not over exaggerate the importance of that as to why our run game was the #1 in the NFL when we interchanged them easily into our system and have gone on to accomplish nothing since leaving the Bills.

 

And sorry, blocking WR is NOT our problem, we can't even get our guys far enough away from LOS for that to matter, not to mention we still have guys who can run block.  And the best OL you are referring to must be Glenn...who has missed 4 games this year.  He missed 5 games last year too, yet we still were the number 1 rushing team in the NFL in yards and YPA.  So we did it with him missing more games last year.  So I find it hard to believe thats a valid excuse either.

 

So not buying these list of excuses for the demise of the run game.  Plus, last year McCoy battled injury to miss a game and parts of 2 others, Dennison has had a healthy McCoy all season.  The key parts of OL who excelled in run blocking last year have been here...the key principles in the dangerous runners in McCoy and Tyrod all here...the same OL we missed some games this year missed more games last year.  Very little has changed to warrant this much of a drop off of what had been our strength with not one, but 2 previous OC's here under an Inept HC.  

 

Dennison sucks, and there is no evidence to the contrary.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. They are still doing it.  They are just not executing it as well.  

Disagree. They are doing it to a much lesser extent. That game against Tampa TT was in shotgun a lot of the game and they did a lot of zone read running.

 

Then he was back under centre a lot the next 3 games.

 

Either way you slice it, their run game numbers are way down from the past 2 years. And a big reason is because they run the ball with TT under centre a lot, with a zone blocking scheme that doesn't suit this offence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Our run game was not dominant the last 2 seasons because of the change of pace back, in fact, one of those change of pace backs already washed out of the league and the other is contributing very little on a Pats team where he got early shot of taking over RB duties and didn't seal the deal.  So lets not over exaggerate the importance of that as to why our run game was the #1 in the NFL when we interchanged them easily into our system and have gone on to accomplish nothing since leaving the Bills.

 

And sorry, blocking WR is NOT our problem, we can't even get our guys far enough away from LOS for that to matter, not to mention we still have guys who can run block.  And the best OL you are referring to must be Glenn...who has missed 4 games this year.  He missed 5 games last year too, yet we still were the number 1 rushing team in the NFL in yards and YPA.  So we did it with him missing more games last year.  So I find it hard to believe thats a valid excuse either.

 

So not buying these list of excuses for the demise of the run game.  Plus, last year McCoy battled injury to miss a game and parts of 2 others, Dennison has had a healthy McCoy all season.  The key parts of OL who excelled in run blocking last year have been here...the key principles in the dangerous runners in McCoy and Tyrod all here...the same OL we missed some games this year missed more games last year.  Very little has changed to warrant this much of a drop off of what had been our strength with not one, but 2 previous OC's here under an Inept HC.  

 

Dennison sucks, and there is no evidence to the contrary.

Exactly!