A measured take on McDermott

[BuffaloHokie13]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

I forgot to mention that the drafting of Tre and Dion were pretty good, as well and Milano looks like a gamer.

 

Zay had a pretty rough start, but he appears to have gotten his head on straight as well.

[Best Player Available]

20 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

Couldn't agree more with the original poster.  I think it was in the movie "The Replacements" where the cocky QB told Shane Falco, the replacement QB, "the worst that they can do for guys like you is give you hope."  I think that's the worst pretender teams can give to their fans is hope.  

 

As to trading Darby, after Gilmore left, he said "that will be me in a couple of years"...like he was also going to be seeking a big contract and the Bills likely wouldn't sign him.  So, I think the Bills got something for him now rather than watch another player walk.  

 

So any average or above average player should be traded for peanuts because he wants to be paid market value? The #99 situation aside. This regime extended for 2 years a center way past his prime with huge guaranteed money. Why?  So what is McBeanes strategy extend over the hill players because they tow the company line. But trade, release or not even make an offer (Bob Woods). To younger players who have not even reached their prime. Because they want to be paid. If that is this regimes process. Then no thanks. They are destined for long term failure. 

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, Buddy Hix said:

The roster moves you listed are hard to argue with, I don't have an issue with those moves.

 

But the hair on fire reactions are due to the inept coaching. The D is god awful, the O scheme is laughable and the decision to start Peterman is one of the biggest missteps I can think of for any head coach.

 

So you have some good roster moves and pathetic coaching, when is it alright to panic or write McD off? 

 

The D is awful because there is zero talent on the D-line or in the LB corps.  McD can't just ask a team for a top DT--and Marcell played 30% of the snaps here.  The switch to Peterman was one game, but you really thing TT wins that game.  Nope.  Bosa and Ingram eat him.  Hey, TT the EIGHT YEAR VET had a great strip sack that gave the Bolts 6 points.  But let's let off the EIGHT YEAR VET for holding the football out in the open and getting it knocked away.  

 

The only pathetic coaching I see is by "my zone blocking scheme is awesome despite all evidence to the contrary" Dennison.  

[CuddyDark]

You have to give him a pass because it's year 1. But he has made several bad moves and one thing about coaching, historically, coaches who make bad decisions, continue to make bad decisions.

 

You can't be a measured, team first, we're the underdog, no one wants us, we are a family, and get gitty like a school girl because you have a "Star" traded to you. You can't treat him like the savior. Also, you don't understand Benjamin is a twofer. 1. He comes in as a big star, on a team of nobodies, possible changing the culture, but 2. More importantly because we signed KB, Carolina has cap room and they will likely resign Lotulelei.

Edited November 20, 2017 by CuddyDark

[RyanC883]

5 minutes ago, Toledo Bill said:

Bottom line... the team quit in three consecutive games. That is on the coach.

 

Shady quit?  Any evidence that they quit.  Did Benjamin "quit" by deciding to hyper-extend his knee?   it's called a lack of talent, not quitting.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

1) Benjamin: this one's a headscratcher for me. If the goal is a teardown to the studs, this move makes no sense.

The deal for Benjamin actually makes the most sense to me. Just terrible timing for how things unfolded after the move. Think back to the trade deadline. Bills were 5-2 and ROLLING. But the offense still needed an extra boost. We had Clay with an injury and injury history. Zay just slowly starting to come around from a terrible start. Matthews also with an injury he was recovering from. We made the Benjamin move as extra insurance to get us to the playoffs. Unfortunately, but I believe coincidentally the defense and the offense imploded at the exact same time. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Best Player Available said:

So any average or above average player should be traded for peanuts because he wants to be paid market value? The #99 situation aside. This regime extended for 2 years a center way past his prime with huge guaranteed money. Why?  So what is McBeanes strategy extend over the hill players because they tow the company line. But trade, release or not even make an offer (Bob Woods). To younger players who have not even reached their prime. Because they want to be paid. If that is this regimes process. Then no thanks. They are destined for long term failure. 

 

You can't prove that with anything measurable. That's a completely emotional response.

 

[Avisan]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

Lots of hair on fire posting about McDermott around here today, so I figured I'd add some balance.

 

Let's start with the personnel moves, good and bad and see if we can dispel the myth that people let go or traded away are going to the playoffs BECAUSE of said people:

 

1) Watkins: 24 rec, 408 yards, 4 TD on an expiring contract. This move, while universally hated by a certain group of posters is proving to be a good one in my opinion. The guy would have wanted Julio Jones money, while proving to be completely not worth such money.

 

2) Woods: 47 rec, 703 yards, 4 TD. Unlike watkins, woods is ACTUALLY contributing to his team's success. Letting this guy go was in my opinion a questionable move.  He's a complete player and seems like the kind of guy that McDermott would want. Heart, and football intelligence.

 

3) Gilmore: 27 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 INT. Letting this clown go was a good idea. He's hardly contributing to his team's success.

 

4) Darby: 2 games played, 9 tackles 1 INT. Not really a key contributor for the Eagles, getting something for him was a good move.

 

5) Dareus: This one seems to really get peoples' panties twisted. Too early to say what the impact is. IF they're able to pick up star latouleleleleleile or whatever his name is, I don't think this will have a long-term negative impact on the team.

 

6) Gillislee: AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

 

Now for incoming guys:

 

1) Benjamin: this one's a headscratcher for me. If the goal is a teardown to the studs, this move makes no sense.

 

2) Matthews: Honestly think this was just a throwaway, trading for a pick and an expiring contact for a guy in darby who, as noted above, really hasn't done squat this year.

 

3) Gaines: I like the guy, but he's brittle.

 

4) Poyer: resounding success.

 

5) Hyde: see poyer.

 

In all, the personnel moves, while controversial, seem to be a net positive. That being said, I think this team lost its sense of direction by winning some flukey games early. What this team needed was a complete insurance arson job, and to gain one of or THE best QB in the draft. I think these guys in charge need time to see what they can do, and I think it's utterly irresponsible to be calling for their heads in YEAR ONE.

 

1.) Watkins' contract was only expiring because we declined his 5th-year option.  We had him for minimum 3 years if we wanted him (this year, option, franchise tag if no long-term deal).  This one you can't hand-wave away.  His production has been fine on the Rams-- he doesn't get targeted much and he produces on the targets he does get.  He consistently draws #1 corner plus safety help, and Goff takes the safe stuff underneath when it's there.

 

2.) Woods is better than anything we have on this roster for sure.

 

3.) Gilmore is a solid player playing solidly for NE.  Almost definitely overpaid right now, but we'll see how things pan out.

 

4.) Darby is probably better than any corner not named White on this team.

 

5.) The Jags and Bills flipped places in YPC on defense. Bills went from mid-3s to mid-5s, Jags went from mid-5s to mid-2s.  It objectively made us worse this year.  We will not recoup that value with a 5th or 6th round pick.

 

6.) Gilleslie is still better than any RB on our roster not named McCoy.  You can laugh when Mike Tolbert is no longer our #2.

 

It's not that all of the moves were the worst moves ever, it's that they inarguably made our roster worse when there was no need to do so.

[BmarvB]

Dr Poyer and Mr Hyde were great pickups. Gaines is solid when healthy. The draft was decent. I'll give him an incomplete grade for now pending results of what's done in the offseason. This is clearly a teardown and rebuilding year. I just hope he didn't tear down Peterman's confidence by throwing him to the wolves when he clearly wasn't ready for that.

Playoffs? What's the point? They'll just get eaten alive in the first round.

[berg1029]

16 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

Shameful, that is.

 

 

That's a completely baseless and unfounded assessment. Pretty much every personnel decision they've made have been solid. The ones in doubt are Dareus and Tolbert.

 

 

You're missing the point-McD only deserves partial credit for the moves.  He isn't the one that is ultimately responsible for the personnel moves.  

 

Your argument is that based on a bunch of personnel moves, McD is doing an okay job. What you should be focusing on is his coaching, which he is 100% responsible for.  If you're not questioning how decisions are being made at this point, you're being kind of a homer (no offense).

Edited November 20, 2017 by berg1029

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, Avisan said:

1.) Watkins' contract was only expiring because we declined his 5th-year option.  We had him for minimum 3 years if we wanted him (this year, option, franchise tag if no long-term deal).  This one you can't hand-wave away.  His production has been fine on the Rams-- he doesn't get targeted much and he produces on the targets he does get.  He consistently draws #1 corner plus safety help, and Goff takes the safe stuff underneath when it's there.

 

2.) Woods is better than anything we have on this roster for sure.

 

3.) Gilmore is a solid player playing solidly for NE.  Almost definitely overpaid right now, but we'll see how things pan out.

 

4.) Darby is probably better than any corner not named White on this team.

 

5.) The Jags and Bills flipped places in YPC on defense. Bills went from mid-3s to mid-5s, Jags went from mid-5s to mid-2s.  It objectively made us worse this year.  We will not recoup that value with a 5th or 6th round pick.

 

6.) Gilleslie is still better than any RB on our roster not named McCoy.  You can laugh when Mike Tolbert is no longer our #2.

 

It's not that all of the moves were the worst moves ever, it's that they inarguably made our roster worse when there was no need to do so.

 

1) so much wrong here. You can NOT tie that kind of money up on Sammy Watkins. Julio Jones? Yes. Antonio Brown? Yes. Sammy Watkins NO.

 

2) I already said that was an error.

 

3) You're insane.

 

4) See 3. I'll take gaines over Darby any day.

 

5) Jury's still out.

 

6) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[Cripple Creek]

55 minutes ago, Buddy Hix said:

Because Peterman has no business on an NFL field, and the fallout from that decision had been severe and threatens to undermine McD's coaching tenure.

 

How can the team have faith in anything McD says now? How can the Pegulas feel good about giving so much power to a guy who misjudged a players readiness and talent so badly?

Wow, overreact much? Severe fallout?

 

He played a rookie QB for a half. It will become a footnote.

[Avisan]

5 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

1) so much wrong here. You can NOT tie that kind of money up on Sammy Watkins. Julio Jones? Yes. Antonio Brown? Yes. Sammy Watkins NO.

 

2) I already said that was an error.

 

3) You're insane.

 

4) See 3. I'll take gaines over Darby any day.

 

5) Jury's still out.

 

6) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

1.) Nothing I said was factually incorrect.  We had him for two years minimum for relatively cheap, with the ability to throw in an expensive third year if he produced.  Only having for this year was entirely self-inflicted.

 

2.) Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

 

3.) Herald article.  He's overpaid, but a defensive contributor right now.  I don't think Gilmore is a world-beater, but he's a solid player.  Acting like he's a total bum is ridiculous.

 

6.) Is Tolbert still our #2?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, Avisan said:

 

 

6.) Is Tolbert still our #2?

 

Unfortunately, but rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well if you are looking at it like that then let's not forget Zach Brown is leading the NFL in tackles.

 

How's that Bills LB corps lookin'?  Perhaps it's just me,  but the coverage and tacklin' is a lil' shaky IMO.

 

Really comes down to Watkins and Dareus.......they were game changers for what they NEEDED to do offensively and defensively to be competitive.

 

Without them it's really made some assistant coaches look VERY bad..........which is on McD.

 

As I said from the start........by midseason it becomes a lot less about X's and O's and more about Jimmy's and Joe's and that's EXACTLY what has happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

 

Well if you are looking at it like that then let's not forget Zach Brown is leading the NFL in tackles.

 

How's that Bills LB corps lookin'?  Perhaps it's just me,  but the coverage and tacklin' is a lil' shaky IMO.

 

Really comes down to Watkins and Dareus.......they were game changers for what they NEEDED to do offensively and defensively to be competitive.

 

Without them it's really made some assistant coaches look VERY bad..........which is on McD.

 

As I said from the start........by midseason it becomes a lot less about X's and O's and more about Jimmy's and Joe's and that's EXACTLY what has happened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I neglected to mention that. I'd have kept Zach and Removed Preston.

 

[Toledo Bill]

55 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Shady quit?  Any evidence that they quit.  Did Benjamin "quit" by deciding to hyper-extend his knee?   it's called a lack of talent, not quitting.  

And who is responsible for the lack of talent? Sure, some players don't quit but based on these three performances it is not just lack of talent.

[BADOLBILZ]

59 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

Shady quit?  Any evidence that they quit.  Did Benjamin "quit" by deciding to hyper-extend his knee?   it's called a lack of talent, not quitting.  

 

 

Defensively their tackling and willingness to take on blocks is evidence that the defense quit.........or perhaps more appropriately are making fatigue aided business decisions.

 

Shady hasn't quit.......that's a dumb example.......he doesn't have to push 300 pound lineman or tackle players running unobstructed toward him.    He has personal statistical goals as he chases the HOF.

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Which decade?

 

The one to follow right now, just like Peters has been for the eagles for the better part of a decade since we traded him 8 years ago. 

 

Obviously

[Billsfan1972]

Actually no it sin't.  You defend the FO & coaches and crafted a thread to support your thinking......

 

From another thread..... 

 

They didn't "inherit" a tire fire, they created it.  Zach Brown, Ronald Darby, Marcel Dareus, Mike Gillislee, Stephon Gilmore, Marquise Goodwin, Sammy Watkins, and Robert Woods all left, via trade or FA, on their watch.

 

The OC did not create a offense that takes advantage of Tyrod's skill and decimated his receiving corp.....  

 

I was on this from the day they traded Watkins and we see what Woods can do.

 

BTW anyone watch Goff yesterday???  Exactly what I have said about him.  Let's see how he handles a tough game.......  What did he do? TD on first possession and 0 after.....

 

Also good to see Cooper Kupp fumble on the 1......  Watch the highlight and Watkins wide open in the endzone in the same line of sight and Goff made the wrong throw.  And then dropped an important pass in the 4th.....  Again he has a better receiver in Watkins he ignores.....

Edited November 20, 2017 by Billsfan1972