THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Ramblings of a Madman

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

What I don't understand is the number of fans who clamored for Peterman?

He was a 5th Rounder. 

Is that really a move that signifies the team believes that he is the "future". 

He'd defy the odds if he topped out as a career backup.

I never saw him as a real plan at QB.

 

BBFS.  Buffalo Bills Fan Syndrome.

 

The clamor for Peterman and the hopes built around his possible emergence as a starter, the "need to evaluate him" as an alternative to drafting a QB high, are one of the clearest symptoms.  For so long have the Bills under-drafted QB, that we've plumb forgotten what a realistic plan to acquire a decent QB looks like. 

 

At OBD, we acquire a QB.  Maybe he shows some flashes, maybe he was acquired with or by way of one of our 1st round picks.  We say "he's the future, we got to evaluate him, see what he's got, throw him in there and let him make mistakes".  We hang onto him for several years, meanwhile acquiring only very late round picks or maybe a career journeyman.

 

bull ****.  Late round draft picks who haven't proven themselves in regular season playing time are "second tier FA" unless they totally knock your socks off in training camp and preseason.  If they've stuck on an NFL roster throughout their rookie contracts and outplayed challenges from other late round draft picks/UDFA, you or some other team may decide to evaluate them.  But you do not depend upon them becoming your Franchise QB, even if you put them in a game or two and they play decently. 

 

You do not "need to evaluate them" to see if you can avoid drafting the best QB you can, not if you want to get your team out of "QB Purgatory"

 

 

 

38 minutes ago, Bills757 said:

 

He may be the future somewhere but to put him in that position and for him to have such a bad half was McD's fault and only serves to set him back in his development.  With a guy like Peterman, you get him into game situations where the game is pretty much over (up big or down big).  Let him at least get his feet wet before you throw him to the wolves.  Peterman and McD can talk all they want about how he learned from it and all that, but there's no doubt in my mind that when Peterman goes back on the field, he's gonna be thinking about the five interceptions.  He's gonna be playing tight not wanting to make a mistake.  And that's exactly what you don't want from your QB.  

 

 

Maybe.  Or maybe not.

 

The reason most rookie QB in their first start don't throw 5 INTs in a half, is that after the 1st or 2nd they start playing more conservatively to avoid more mistakes.

 

I kinda got laughed at in the Micah Hyde Nickname thread for pointing out there was a negative connotation to the nickname "Nate Favre", in that Favre was a notorious and unregenerate gunslinger, especially in his later years after becoming "Brett Favre, Superstar", and maybe Hyde called him that because he could pluck him regularly.

 

Maybe Peterman, who still believed in himself and kept slinging it after the 2nd and 3rd INT, would still believe in himself and keep slinging it and playing Picks-o-Matic.  And that is also something you don't want from your QB.

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Hey great. I can do it! I will mark my calendar so I dint forget to cancel.

 

It is bittersweet that I am doing it to see what on earth has gone so wrong. Something is very wrong. More wrong than it should be. It is like the defense have been denied even their physical bodies. They can't even just simply get in the way. They should be able to do better just by having bodies, and being randomly in the way. 

 

LIke, we could give the defense all smartphones and have them text while walking around out there. They would be sure to bump into someone.

 

Anyway thank you I will take a look.

 

You're welcome.  And the image of Bills defenders wandering around texting and doing better, made me laugh almost as much as that McWrestler "Losing Streak" cartoon someone posted.  Thanks for the laugh!

Edited November 21, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

You should sober up. 

 

You can do AA or you could only drink when the Bills score a passing touchdown, or win a game.

We all mourn in our own ways.

 

I don't tell you to lay off the saturated fats...

[BadLandsMeanie]

6 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

We all mourn in our own ways.

 

I don't tell you to lay off the saturated fats...

Technically to feel better after a game like that it takes sugar AND saturated fats. And for it to work, you can't eat it at other times or you develop a tolerance that wipes away the mood of well being that you get.

 

I maintain my physique chiefly by adhering to a strict inactive lifestyle not from saturated fats.

 

Back to your well deserved  admonishment of me. Your point is taken. I was insensitive, hypocritical, and bossy.

 

Cheers!

[Richard Noggin]

4 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Technically to feel better after a game like that it takes sugar AND saturated fats. And for it to work, you can't eat it at other times or you develop a tolerance that wipes away the mood of well being that you get.

 

I maintain my physique chiefly by adhering to a strict inactive lifestyle not from saturated fats.

 

Back to your well deserved  admonishment of me. Your point is taken. I was insensitive, hypocritical, and bossy.

 

Cheers!

I believe the appropriate response here is:

 

Dilly dilly!

[Straight Hucklebuck]

50 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

BBFS.  Buffalo Bills Fan Syndrome.

 

The clamor for Peterman and the hopes built around his possible emergence as a starter, the "need to evaluate him" as an alternative to drafting a QB high, are one of the clearest symptoms.  For so long have the Bills under-drafted QB, that we've plumb forgotten what a realistic plan to acquire a decent QB looks like. 

 

At OBD, we acquire a QB.  Maybe he shows some flashes, maybe he was acquired with or by way of one of our 1st round picks.  We say "he's the future, we got to evaluate him, see what he's got, throw him in there and let him make mistakes".  We hang onto him for several years, meanwhile acquiring only very late round picks or maybe a career journeyman.

 

bull ****.  Late round draft picks who haven't proven themselves in regular season playing time are "second tier FA" unless they totally knock your socks off in training camp and preseason.  If they've stuck on an NFL roster throughout their rookie contracts and outplayed challenges from other late round draft picks/UDFA, you or some other team may decide to evaluate them.  But you do not depend upon them becoming your Franchise QB, even if you put them in a game or two and they play decently. 

 

You do not "need to evaluate them" to see if you can avoid drafting the best QB you can, not if you want to get your team out of "QB Purgatory"

100% right.

 

The Bills fans and the organization have believed for a long time that any QB who wanders in off the street DESERVES the chance to be the starter. 

 

To think that a segment of fans wanted Jeff Tuel to be developed, Thad Lewis was seen as not that bad, some fans justified Brian Brohm getting starts. 

 

And to your point, the Bills gave 3 years to Trent (and the start of a 4th season in 2010), 3 years to Fitzpatrick, a year with EJ, wanted Orton back for a second year, and now have 2.5 years in on Tyrod its indisputable that this organization (over multiple owners) is convinced it can win with bottom tier QBs supported by a run game. 

 

How does Doug Whaley come to the conclusion based on tape and research that EJ Manuel is worth a first rounder, but that Deshaun Watson wasn't based on their college careers. 

 

The Bills again passed on Watson and Mahomes for a cornerback to replace the cornerback we let go in FA. 

 

And now with 5 wins, you aren't going to get the best 1 or 2 QBs in the draft without blowing assets to try and trade up. 

 

McDermott doesn't believe in passing the ball anyways. He believes in running and keeping down and distance manageable. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Ayjent]

9 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Bolded part of your post is spot on if Taylor is the QB, since this type of offense is his strength.  Don't give Tyrod a pocket, let him move around behind the line as needed and create plays.  But all this, I fear, is for not because of the rigid philosophy of Dennison...he won't allow it to come to fruition since this is not the type of offense he knows.

Bill Barnwell writes in his column how Dennison has cut back significantly on using Shotgun sets with Taylor and McCoy which had been very productive in the past for the Bills.

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

I believe the appropriate response here is:

 

Dilly dilly!

Dilly dilly!

[Figster]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Agreed.  People can argue all they like about how Dareus didn't play enough to make a difference.  I put the facts out there: the Oakland game (Oak has little run game and none apart from ML) is an anomaly.  Otherwise it can be seen that the run game was more porous when MD was out earlier in the season, and vastly more porous since he left; and that contrary to popular report that he was only playing 1/3 of snaps, in several games it was closer to 2/3.  Then look at Jax run D since Dareus showed up. 

If you really want to tank, you start at the very beginning.  I think all signs point to they genuinely are trying to win as much as they can this year, and either these guys didn't realize what Mr Big Stuff was doing for the D (they see better film, they'd be stupid), or, Mr Big Stuff got up to some shenanigans which led them to say "I don't care who you are and what you do on the field, You're Out and we'll deal with the consequences".  But you know, then...Deal.  Make changes to your scheme.  Adapt.  Use the players you have.
 

 

Schaub (whom long timers know I regarded as an under-rated QB in his prime) had Kubiak for 3 years and Kyle Shanahan for 2 before Dennison moved from Denver in 2010.

I don't think Dennison had much to do with developing Schaub, who had his best career in 2009.

 

Thanks. 

 

If you're moderately organized or better, you can get a week's free trial of NFL Gamepass and watch the game (condensed and all-22 should be up today).

Then cancel.

 

No, vs letting him do the typical late round rookie development path: barring injury, let him practice at half speed and watch game film for a year and support the starter on the bench.  If there's injury, support him with a simple, run-heavy game plan that doesn't ask too much of him, give the OL extra help, and hope for the best.  Give him a meaningless game if relevant, and see how he does at 3/4 speed.

 

If he starts really lighting it up in preseason and is within spitting distance of or outplays the starter, then consider giving him a meaningful start.  But while Peterman did some good things in preseason, he was no Russ Wilson "gotta play me" kid.

 

You don't develop a QB by throwing him into the fire in a meaningful regular season game with a gameplan designed for a seasoned QB.  No useful purpose is served.   Unless, as someone here speculated, the whole point was as a close-aimed shot across Taylor's bows: throw it, or spend the rest of the season holding a clipboard and watching the Peterman debacle.

You say it served no useful purpose then go on to say it may have convinced Taylor to throw the football more. If Taylor gets injured do you think Peterman is ready to get tossed into the fire with very little preparation and stick with the same game plan? I don't, so we did accomplish something in my humble opinion.

 

It was a calculated move to help spark the team, give  Peterman some experience, send Taylor a message and gain valuable intel before the next draft.

 

Everything was accomplished IMO.

 

with all due respect

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

You say it served no useful purpose then go on to say it may have convinced Taylor to throw the football more.

 

I thought the writing was clear, but evidently not: if you're trying to develop a QB, or even evaluate him, "no useful purpose is served" by throwing him into the fire with a game plan designed for a seasoned QB.

 

If you don't GAF about that QB and you want to risk damaging him to motivate your starter, I suppose that's a "useful purpose", but it serves no developmental purpose.

 

If an injury occurs and an inexperienced backup must be played, the usual strategy is to script a plan (or quickly revise the existing plan) to try to make it easy for them.  You don't throw them into a game the starter could play to get them experience.

 

I'm glad you think something was accomplished.

 

[Figster]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I thought the writing was clear, but evidently not: if you're trying to develop a QB, or even evaluate him, "no useful purpose is served" by throwing him into the fire with a game plan designed for a seasoned QB.

 

If you don't GAF about that QB and you want to risk damaging him to motivate your starter, I suppose that's a "useful purpose", but it serves no developmental purpose.

 

If an injury occurs and an inexperienced backup must be played, the usual strategy is to script a plan (or quickly revise the existing plan) to try to make it easy for them.  You don't throw them into a game the starter could play to get them experience.

 

I'm glad you think something was accomplished.

 

 

 

Do you think Buffalo is going to draft a QB in the 1st and let him stand on the sidelines learning?

 

Its not going to happen IMO.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Figster said:

Do you think Buffalo is going to draft a QB in the 1st and let him stand on the sidelines learning?

Its not going to happen IMO.

 

I know what I think they should do.

 

But how is that relevent to the point of whether a useful purpose was served by starting Peterman with a game plan designed for a seasoned QB?

[Figster]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I know what I think they should do.

 

But how is that relevent to the point of whether a useful purpose was served by starting Peterman with a game plan designed for a seasoned QB?

that an even higher investment will be tossed into the fire with less preparation then N Peterman was given.

 

 

[Shaw66]

Huckleberry and Hapless are REALLY depressing me.  It's hard to argue with their take on recent history. 

 

I believed p, I was sure, that McDermott was the answer.  Maybe he is. But right now I think he's looking at a total rebuild, and there's no evidence that he has what it takes.  

 

Will the Pegulas give him and Beane another four years to prove themselves?  There's a good chance it will take that long.  

 

I say all the time that you can't tell who the good and bad teams are until late October and into November.  It looks like we're finding out. 

 

Oh, and good luck signing free agents next Spring. Unless the Bills miraculously win 3 or 4 games, it's hard to imagine a free agent getting excited about signing with the Bills. 

[Figster]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Huckleberry and Hapless are REALLY depressing me.  It's hard to argue with their take on recent history. 

 

I believed p, I was sure, that McDermott was the answer.  Maybe he is. But right now I think he's looking at a total rebuild, and there's no evidence that he has what it takes.  

 

Will the Pegulas give him and Beane another four years to prove themselves?  There's a good chance it will take that long.  

 

I say all the time that you can't tell who the good and bad teams are until late October and into November.  It looks like we're finding out. 

 

Oh, and good luck signing free agents next Spring. Unless the Bills miraculously win 3 or 4 games, it's hard to imagine a free agent getting excited about signing with the Bills. 

McD took on a Rex Ryan football team and basically got rid of anyone that had anything to do with scouting and drafting players. Clearly the team McD took over is not the kind of team he wants.

 

I  lliked your 2nd assessment Shaw, hang in there buddy, we have one hell of a draft coming up.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

that an even higher investment will be tossed into the fire with less preparation then N Peterman was given.

 

Well, we've both seen that happen.

 

Even when starting a rookie, however, it shouldn't. 
Recent successful rookies were given game plans that didn't ask them to do too much or carry the team on their arm - strong OL, strong run game, and "keep it simple" were the recipes for success. 

 

I got curious and had a look at the top 10 QB by passing yards from last year, where they were drafted, and when they became the starter.  The same recipe seems to hold true: either they sat for a year or more (first round or no); or, they had a strong rush game and defense; or, the result wasn't pretty.  The exception as often, would be Andrew Luck.

 

Brees (rnd 2, #32): 2

Ryan (rnd 1, #3): 1 [11-5; Rush game #2, Defense #11]

Cousins (rnd 4, #102): 4 (started 1,3, and 5 games his 1st 3 years)

Rodgers (rnd 1, #24): 4

Rivers (rnd 1, #1): 3

Stafford (rnd 1, #1): 1 [2-8, injured 4 games and next year; Rush game #24 Defense #32] - first full season was 3

Flacco (rnd 1, #18): 1 [team went 11-5; Rush game #1, Defense #3]

Luck (rnd 1, #1): 1 [11-5; Rush Game #14,Defense #21]

Palmer (rnd 1, #1): 2

Wilson (rnd 3, #15): 1 [11-5; Rush Game #1, Defense #1]

 

4 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Technically to feel better after a game like that it takes sugar AND saturated fats. And for it to work, you can't eat it at other times or you develop a tolerance that wipes away the mood of well being that you get.

I maintain my physique chiefly by adhering to a strict inactive lifestyle not from saturated fats.

 

I recommend Stroopwafels.  Available at World Market (not B'lo store) and at Aldi at Christmastime.  They have everything you want for your post-game sugar and fat bolus.  Perch it on a mug of buttered rum or hot chocolate to warm/soften a bit, and you're on your way to forgetting just about any suckfest short of a Superbowl loss.

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[Hapless Bills Fan]

50 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Huckleberry and Hapless are REALLY depressing me.  It's hard to argue with their take on recent history. 

(...)

Oh, and good luck signing free agents next Spring. Unless the Bills miraculously win 3 or 4 games, it's hard to imagine a free agent getting excited about signing with the Bills. 

 

I'm so sorry.  And yes, I agree, in addition to damaging the mentality and morale of the team, losing out the season will most certainly serve as "Free Agent Repellent"

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Huckleberry and Hapless

 

Sounds like the name of a Buffalo Bills radio show

[Figster]

40 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, we've both seen that happen.

 

Even when starting a rookie, however, it shouldn't. 
Recent successful rookies were given game plans that didn't ask them to do too much or carry the team on their arm - strong OL, strong run game, and "keep it simple" were the recipes for success. 

 

I got curious and had a look at the top 10 QB by passing yards from last year, where they were drafted, and when they became the starter.  The same recipe seems to hold true: either they sat for a year or more (first round or no); or, they had a strong rush game and defense; or, the result wasn't pretty.  The exception as often, would be Andrew Luck.

 

Brees (rnd 2, #32): 2

Ryan (rnd 1, #3): 1 [11-5; Rush game #2, Defense #11]

Cousins (rnd 4, #102): 4 (started 1,3, and 5 games his 1st 3 years)

Rodgers (rnd 1, #24): 4

Rivers (rnd 1, #1): 3

Stafford (rnd 1, #1): 1 [2-8, injured 4 games and next year; Rush game #24 Defense #32] - first full season was 3

Flacco (rnd 1, #18): 1 [team went 11-5; Rush game #1, Defense #3]

Luck (rnd 1, #1): 1 [11-5; Rush Game #14,Defense #21]

Palmer (rnd 1, #1): 2

Wilson (rnd 3, #15): 1 [11-5; Rush Game #1, Defense #1]

 

 

I recommend Stroopwafels.  Available at World Market (not B'lo store) and at Aldi at Christmastime.  They have everything you want for your post-game sugar and fat bolus.  Perch it on a mug of buttered rum or hot chocolate to warm/soften a bit, and you're on your way to forgetting just about any suckfest short of a Superbowl loss.

 

thanks for the research

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Figster said:

thanks for the research

 

Welcome.  

My bottom line: if you start a rookie, give him a stout OL, a run-heavy offense, and a strong D or prepare for loss and injury, and delays in becoming the QB he could be.

Unless he's Andrew Luck.  Paxton Lynch is about to enter a world of pain.

 

Try the Stroopwafels.  You can feel your blood sugar soar.

 

 

 

[Maine-iac]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Huckleberry and Hapless are REALLY depressing me.  It's hard to argue with their take on recent history. 

 

I believed p, I was sure, that McDermott was the answer.  Maybe he is. But right now I think he's looking at a total rebuild, and there's no evidence that he has what it takes.  

 

Will the Pegulas give him and Beane another four years to prove themselves?  There's a good chance it will take that long.  

 

I say all the time that you can't tell who the good and bad teams are until late October and into November.  It looks like we're finding out. 

 

Oh, and good luck signing free agents next Spring. Unless the Bills miraculously win 3 or 4 games, it's hard to imagine a free agent getting excited about signing with the Bills. 

If the defense is crap because Dareus got traded there's no answer for that.  If it is as simple as "gap integrity" then McDermott better get his on it.  As far as the offense Dennison either needs to get canned or find some inner creative bone in his body.  Come out and throw the ball from a 4 WR set every down.  How about a good old fashion screen game, remember the one Gailey used to kill other teams with?  There are things that could be done to be better.  What is frustrating is that, at least on offense anyways, I don't think Dennison is capable.