Big Turk Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said: I am not comparing them. The point is you can be a good qb on a bad team. Stafford, Rivers, luck all have played on sub 500 teams You can, but when it happens regularly I'd question just how "good" the QB actually is at doing anything other than putting up stats. Franchise QB's have to be able to overcome some things because you are ALWAYS going to have some holes on your team if you are paying a QB that much money. If he can't overcome them, then how can he actually be worth it when those same holes are going to be there year after year? Which is why Rivers and Stafford tend to go 7-9 to 9-7 or the odd 10-6 many years... That's the entire point I am making. You are ALWAYS going to have deficiencies on your roster when you are paying a QB that much money. He HAS to be able to overcome them more than half the time to be worth paying him that much money. People want to pretend like you just go pay a QB 25-30 million and then just go fill all the holes on your roster and you'll win a Super Bowl. It doesn't work that way. You are going to lose 2-3 players a year just because you can't afford to keep them because you are paying the QB that money. If the answer to "how many more games will I win playing my franchise QB instead of my backup?" isn't at least 4, he shouldn't be your franchise QB. If the answer to "how often can my QB take me to the playoffs with an average roster?" isn't at least 60-65% of the time, he shouldn't be your franchise QB. If the answer to "what level of talent do I need to surround my QB with to have him take us to the playoffs?" is high. He shouldn't be your franchise QB. Because it just isn't worth paying the money to get the same results you could get from a lesser QB and pay him less money and actually PUT more people around him. Cousins doesn't pass the smell test on this one. Just like Rivers doesn't. Or Flacco. Edited December 14, 2017 by matter2003
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 8 minutes ago, matter2003 said: You can, but when it happens regularly I'd question just how "good" the QB actually is at doing anything other than putting up stats. Franchise QB's have to be able to overcome some things because you are ALWAYS going to have some holes on your team if you are paying a QB that much money. If he can't overcome them, then how can he actually be worth it when those same holes are going to be there year after year? Which is why Rivers and Stafford tend to go 7-9 to 9-7 or the odd 10-6 many years... If the answer to "how many more games will I win playing my franchise QB instead of my backup?" isn't at least 4, he shouldn't be your franchise QB. If the answer to "how often can my QB take me to the playoffs with an average roster?" isn't at least 60% of the time, he shouldn't be your franchise QB. That's the entire point I am making. You are ALWAYS going to have deficiencies on your roster when you are paying a QB that much money. He HAS to be able to overcome them more than half the time to be worth paying him that much money. People want to pretend like you just go pay a QB 25-30 million and then just go fill all the holes on your roster and you'll win a Super Bowl. It doesn't work that way. You are going to lose 2-3 players a year just because you can't afford to keep them because you are paying the QB that money. Cousins doesn't pass the smell test on this one. Just like Rivers doesn't. this it the thinking that leads to the last 17 years . Cousins is a big time upgrade. as far cap . if you take Taylor add what is left and subtract Kyle Williams you get to around 15 million. you can still build a fine roster .
Big Turk Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said: this it the thinking that leads to the last 17 years . Cousins is a big time upgrade. as far cap . if you take Taylor add what is left and subtract Kyle Williams you get to around 15 million. you can still build a fine roster . No, its we haven't drafted a QB well enough that has led to the last 17 years. Overpaying for a player who will not overcome deficiencies that a QB HAS to overcome is just stupidity and will ensure you will continue to miss the playoffs. I'd pay Case Keenum $15 million all day before I'd pay Cousins $25 million. All day and twice on Sunday. And I'd win more games with him straight up on the same roster. Keenum has had the light switch flip on. Cousins has not. Edited December 14, 2017 by matter2003
GoBills808 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 21 minutes ago, matter2003 said: You can say that, but when you can replace a "franchise QB" with his backup and get the same record it doesn't say much for that QB. I’ve been posting his stats in this thread and others. So no offense, because you may have some legitimate concerns about Cousins, but posting about the Redskins’ record during his time there isn’t a convincing argument at all.
Big Turk Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I’ve been posting his stats in this thread and others. So no offense, because you may have some legitimate concerns about Cousins, but posting about the Redskins’ record during his time there isn’t a convincing argument at all. It absolutely is, because it points to his ability to overcome deficiencies on the roster that will ALWAYS be there precisely because you are paying him so much money. The two go hand in hand with each other. What? You think we are going to just magically figure a way out to keep the 2 or 3 players a year these other teams can't and not lose them because we are in tight against the cap with a high paid QB? No other team in the league has other than NE because their QB gives them a discount because his wife makes more than he does and players take discounts to go play there due to their track record over the past 15 years. We have the opposite track record. Until Cousins can show he can do it at least once, I will assume he can't and I damn sure am not paying top dollar for a mystery box where you have no clue what you have inside. Actually I just want to watch a game where Cousins completely takes over it. I still don't know if I've ever seen that from him yet, for all his stats. Edited December 14, 2017 by matter2003
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 10 hours ago, GoBills808 said: I’ve been posting his stats in this thread and others. So no offense, because you may have some legitimate concerns about Cousins, but posting about the Redskins’ record during his time there isn’t a convincing argument at all. He's been very good from an efficiency standpoint, and maintained that efficiency at a high volume. I like him quite a bit.
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Bills fans don't care about wins. They want 300 yards passing from their QB. It's just as good as a victory. 300 yards? now that is crazy talk.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 13 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Looks like Denver will be after him too (SIAP) The KC chase - Denver, NYG, NYJ, Arizona, Cleveland, Jaguars, Indy, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Baltimore. Honorable mentions - Saints, Dolphins 42 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Bills fans don't care about wins. They want 300 yards passing from their QB. It's just as good as a victory. Just like Tom Brady... well except for last Sunday Thats a joke Scott ....
Mat68 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) 19 hours ago, BigBuff423 said: If you take Cousins and pay him, you're virtually guaranteeing yourself you will need to fill almost every other hole via Draft, meaning you'll need every pick you've got and then some....so, to take a QB early would not be a wise investment...now, if you found a guy like Russell Wilson in the 3rd, then you Draft him and see what happens. But if you're taking Cousins, you need to make early gains on your 4 picks in the first 2 rounds. There is some thought you could have both Cousins AND Allen....I doubt the others, but Allen might still be there in the mid-rounds, and almost certainly in Round 2. I'm not advocating one way or the other, but if you're prone to doing that sort of thing, it probably could be done without moving picks. I dont believe Allen makes is out of the top 10. His athleticism, size and arm are off the charts. Prospects with that combination do not fall in the draft. I dont think you can bring in Cousins and trade up for a Qb the same year. To get Allen Buffalo will need to leap in front of the Broncos, and Jets at minimum. Edited December 14, 2017 by Mat68
bmur66 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 Sure would be nice to have a proven QB and a whole bunch of draft pics 1
Mat68 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 If im bringing in any vet i am calling up indy and offering 2 first for Luck. He is a franchise Qb.
Buffalo03 Posted December 14, 2017 Author Posted December 14, 2017 16 hours ago, matter2003 said: At the end of the day the only stat that matters. Cousins is not an upgrade to that. How does he have a worse record than Tyrod then? Some QBs put up lots of numbers but don't win you games. Cousins falls squarely into this category. Too many people want numbers. I dont need a QB to throw 4500 yards and finish 8-8. That's not good enough sorry, nor does it make sense on ANY level to pay a guy that much to produce that result. You're putting way too much emphasis on this stuff. You act like he is the whole team. You have to have more than just a QB to be successful. A better QB than Tyrod which he is will make your team better. How many playoff games has Drew Brees won in the last 3 years? How many Super Bowls did Dan Marino win? Those are Hall of Fame QBs that didn't have the extra pieces they needed to make a run but you better believe the Dolphins wouldn't have even had a chance without Marino. He made that team better than it was. What other assets does Kirk have around him in washington? The defense isn't that great. He lost his two main receivers and his tight end is always hurt and he is still much better than anything we have had the last 15 years. The first step toward a successful franchise is a 4000 yard passer. Once you do that and put the necessary pieces around him then you have a contender 2
GoBills808 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: He's been very good from an efficiency standpoint, and maintained that efficiency at a high volume. I like him quite a bit. Means quite a bit coming from you, he's been a consistent top ten QB IMO since he was named starter in Washington. 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 32 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Means quite a bit coming from you, he's been a consistent top ten QB IMO since he was named starter in Washington. He's one of only 3 QBs who have finished top 10 in 2015, 2016, and 2017 (obviously not finished this year yet, but he's there right now) in my rankings. The other 2 are Brady & Brees. Stafford finished top 10 in 15 and 16, but is just outside right now this year. 2
GoBills808 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: He's one of only 3 QBs who have finished top 10 in 2015, 2016, and 2017 (obviously not finished this year yet, but he's there right now) in my rankings. The other 2 are Brady & Brees. Stafford finished top 10 in 15 and 16, but is just outside right now this year. I think people really underestimate how badly that front office handled the RGIII/Cousins transition and how the bad blood there impacted his career. When you look at how he's performed despite the circumstances...I think it's pretty remarkable, personally. IMO there just aren't many opportunities like this in the NFL to obtain a 27 year old guy with the talent Cousins has. You're getting a proven franchise caliber QB in a transitional year with a boatload of draft capital...to me it's the option most likely to pay dividends, soonest. Maybe not the absolute highest return (hitting on a first round QB is ALWAYS best), but not far off either. 1
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: I think people really underestimate how badly that front office handled the RGIII/Cousins transition and how the bad blood there impacted his career. When you look at how he's performed despite the circumstances...I think it's pretty remarkable, personally. IMO there just aren't many opportunities like this in the NFL to obtain a 27 year old guy with the talent Cousins has. You're getting a proven franchise caliber QB in a transitional year with a boatload of draft capital...to me it's the option most likely to pay dividends, soonest. Maybe not the absolute highest return (hitting on a first round QB is ALWAYS best), but not far off either. Exactly where I'm at, tbh.
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Mat68 said: If im bringing in any vet i am calling up indy and offering 2 first for Luck. He is a franchise Qb. your two first are openers. you better be prepared to add to it. For luck if he is healthy I am in .
reddogblitz Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Bills fans don't care about wins. They want 300 yards passing from their QB. It's just as good as a victory. i would rather lose with a QB throwing for over 300 yards than win with a guy that can't pass to save his A$$. Edited December 14, 2017 by reddogblitz 1
Sweats Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 Cousins is going to be a hot commodity in the off season. A lot of teams are going to go after him............i'm pretty sure we're going to overpay and give up too many draft picks to acquire him.
HappyDays Posted December 14, 2017 Posted December 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sweats said: Cousins is going to be a hot commodity in the off season. A lot of teams are going to go after him............i'm pretty sure we're going to overpay and give up too many draft picks to acquire him. Draft picks?
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