Billsfan1972 Posted December 2, 2017 Author Posted December 2, 2017 12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...pretty effin pathetic to see a rook who went through minis, OTA's, TC ,pre-season and some scant mop up duty in regular season get roasted like this after ONE disastrous start....the pigeon dropping stained WELCOME MAT is rolled out for any kid daring to come here....and Darnold is worried about going to Cleveland....come here Sam, the droppings are fresher......the keyboard yipsters await....good Lord...... You're missing the point. No one is blaming Peterman. I'm blaming the coaching staff for pretending he was ready and calling plays he wasn't capable of converting. Dennison hung him out to dry due to his hubris.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 This thread has more legs than a centipede
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 Just now, Billsfan1972 said: You're missing the point. No one is blaming Peterman. I'm blaming the coaching staff for pretending he was ready and calling plays he wasn't capable of converting. Dennison hung him out to dry due to his hubris. ....then why don't the pundits here see it that way?....seems to me Peterman is already a BUST in their eyes....and yes Dennison is the culprit IMO hiding behind McD's cape.....'lil coward.............. 1
26CornerBlitz Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...pretty effin pathetic to see a rook who went through minis, OTA's, TC ,pre-season and some scant mop up duty in regular season get roasted like this after ONE disastrous start....the pigeon dropping stained WELCOME MAT is rolled out for any kid daring to come here....and Darnold is worried about going to Cleveland....come here Sam, the droppings are fresher......the keyboard yipsters await....good Lord...... Good comparison of Peterman to Darnold said no one ever.
reddogblitz Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 33 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: Brees and Wilson lasted longer then they should have for one reason (maybe two for Wilson) because they were short. We, of all people, should know short QBs can get good. The last guy that led us to the playoffs 2 years in a row was WELL under 6'.
Billsfan1972 Posted December 2, 2017 Author Posted December 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: We, of all people, should know short QBs can get good. The last guy that led us to the playoffs 2 years in a row was WELL under 6'. And a polarizing figure as are all short Bill QB's. 13 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....then why don't the pundits here see it that way?....seems to me Peterman is already a BUST in their eyes....and yes Dennison is the culprit IMO hiding behind McD's cape.....'lil coward.............. No just was no where near ready and thrust in to what most people thought was a very important game vs. a 3-6 team that the Bills needed to win. Some bought the crap McDermott spewed "Best Chance to succeed & NFL Ready......". Anyone rational knew otherwise and frankly did get great joy seeing the results. It was the best possible outcome, because if Peterman lost 33-13 and threw for 220 with 3 Ints, he probably would have earned the start vs. KC....... No do not need to see more of him 'til 2018 pre-season if ever.....
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: We, of all people, should know short QBs can get good. The last guy that led us to the playoffs 2 years in a row was WELL under 6'. ....Tarkenton, Brees, Kapp, Montana, Young, YA Tittle, Otto Graham, Jack Kemp, etc all agree with you....they all made decent livings at 6'2" or less............. 10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: And a polarizing figure as are all short Bill QB's. No just was no where near ready and thrust in to what most people thought was a very important game vs. a 3-6 team that the Bills needed to win. Some bought the crap McDermott spewed "Best Chance to succeed & NFL Ready......". Anyone rational knew otherwise and frankly did get great joy seeing the results. It was the best possible outcome, because if Peterman lost 33-13 and threw for 220 with 3 Ints, he probably would have earned the start vs. KC....... No do not need to see more of him 'til 2018 pre-season if ever..... ...IF EVER?...seriously?.....hell if I was a potential draftee, I'd stay in school and get my PhD before subjecting myself to you and the "One and Done Gang" in Buffalo.....if ever?...pretty pathetic... 1
Billsfan1972 Posted December 2, 2017 Author Posted December 2, 2017 21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....Tarkenton, Brees, Kapp, Montana, Young, YA Tittle, Otto Graham, Jack Kemp, etc all agree with you....they all made decent livings at 6'2" or less............. ...IF EVER?...seriously?.....hell if I was a potential draftee, I'd stay in school and get my PhD before subjecting myself to you and the "One and Done Gang" in Buffalo.....if ever?...pretty pathetic... do you know how many 5th round or lower qb's have started in their rookie year? Or even ever get a start? I am saying Peterman is not ready and if he never is it will not be a surprise, a stretch, out of the ordinary or something 95% of NFL fans would care about. That is very different from a first round pick that eventually has to play based on the investment made.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said: do you know how many 5th round or lower qb's have started in their rookie year? Or even ever get a start? I am saying Peterman is not ready and if he never is it will not be a surprise, a stretch, out of the ordinary or something 95% of NFL fans would care about. That is very different from a first round pick that eventually has to play based on the investment made. ....and the sad part today and over the last decade is how many actually FAIL to live up to their 1st round selection or investment.........thus the crazy world of NFL drafting will NEVER be an exact science....you're an old timer and know the draft drill.....Montana in the 3rd....Brady in the 6th....Kyle Williams in the 5th.....Russell Wilson in the 3rd.........Tyrell Davis in the 6th...etc......then look at the guys drafted AHEAD of them.....
JohnC Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....and the sad part today and over the last decade is how many actually FAIL to live up to their 1st round selection or investment.........thus the crazy world of NFL drafting will NEVER be an exact science....you're an old timer and know the draft drill.....Montana in the 3rd....Brady in the 6th....Kyle Williams in the 5th.....Russell Wilson in the 3rd.........Tyrell Davis in the 6th...etc......then look at the guys drafted AHEAD of them..... You pointed out examples of lower round players who significantly outperformed their draft status. However, if you want the odds on your side for a draftee to make it in the pro ranks I confidently would predict a greater success rate for players (any position) drafted higher. As you pointed out drafting is far from being a science. But if you want to improve your success rate on draftees it definitely tilts favorably to the higher drafted player. Too often, many people make the claim that one should not draft a qb in the first round because of the risk for failure is great. (I'm not saying you are making that claim. You clearly are making another point.) But the problem with that line of thinking is that you can make the same claim for every position. There certainly are no guarantees. But as I said at the beginning of the post the odds are more in your favor with a selection taken earlier rather than later.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, JohnC said: You pointed out examples of lower round players who significantly outperformed their draft status. However, if you want the odds on your side for a draftee to make it in the pro ranks I confidently would predict a greater success rate for players (any position) drafted higher. As you pointed out drafting is far from being a science. But if you want to improve your success rate on draftees it definitely tilts favorably to the higher drafted player. Too often, many people make the claim that one should not draft a qb in the first round because of the risk for failure is great. (I'm not saying you are making that claim. You clearly are making another point.) But the problem with that line of thinking is that you can make the same claim for every position. There certainly are no guarantees. But as I said at the beginning of the post the odds are more in your favor with a selection taken earlier rather than later. ...not even an argumentative or disputable point John...I'm certain actuarial draft tables would show you are correct......but a stray diamond in the ruff can happen.....
JohnC Posted December 2, 2017 Posted December 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...not even an argumentative or disputable point John...I'm certain actuarial draft tables would show you are correct......but a stray diamond in the ruff can happen..... We are in accord. Getting those value pick nuggets via lower round selections not only help In staffing your special teams and backups but it helps your cap situation by lowering the average for the backside of your roster. In addition, lower picks are usually the developmental players that in a couple of years could be ready to contribute. A fun question to put out there is who are some of our better low round picks. Right off the top of my head I would say Jason Peters who should be in consideration for the HOF. I'm not saying he is going to make it to the Hall but he should be considered. Going way back CB Robert James was another late round gem who had his career derailed due to injuries.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 3, 2017 Posted December 3, 2017 9 hours ago, jmc12290 said: A bloated salary cap! Oh no! Certainly the death knell of any organization. Just ask the Saints! Titans are 7-3 this year when Mariota plays homie. But good call! I'm not talking about the Texans in 2016. Hang in there. See above in KC. Stafford was the most clutch QB in the NFL last year and made the postseason several times. I want to win a Superbowl as much as anyone else, but you can't be a contender if you don't make it to the dance. Remember you argued players on IR are more valuable than players not on the roster? Probably the silliest take I've heard in weeks. Just one dumb take after the next from you...........on one hand it's not a big deal that Jax has pending cap issues........on the other hand you are projecting Kirk Cousins too them when he's looking for $25M per year. As Kirby said........guys you drafted in round 3 aren't proof of the success of tanking. And like I said, regarding Stafford......the Lions are still like 6 games UNDER .500 during Stafford's 9 years and have never even been a legit SB contender in that time.
Scott7975 Posted December 3, 2017 Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, jmc12290 said: Jax turned it around by tanking. So did the Titans. The Texans tanked one year and turned it around to being a good team. KC was a basement dweller and turned it into yearly postseason contenders Panthers got Cam. Colts got Luck (recent struggles with health notwithstanding) Lions got Stafford. All in the last 10 years. Jax "tanked" for almost a decade. Not a quick turnaround. This is only the second time the Titans have been above .500 since 2008. Are you trying to say that Clowney turned the Texans around? KC got a better QB and way better coaching. They still have been regular season super heroes one and done. Panthers have had Cam for 7 years and they are on their 3rd winning season in 7 years of him. and the Colts still suck Stafford and the Lions have done what after selecting top 5 for like 10 straight years? I'm not really seeing how any of those teams turned anything around after tanking for 1 season. Maybe the Panthers, but that team is more than just Cam Newton. Edited December 3, 2017 by Scott7975
Scott7975 Posted December 3, 2017 Posted December 3, 2017 10 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Tyrod led the 7th scoring offense (through 16 weeks) last year and a top 10 the year before. Scoring wasn’t an issue pre-Dennison. This Patriots team has holes. It might be the worst run defense in th league. That’s how you can win. Take care of the football and run all over them. That isn’t Peterman. To be fair the Pats haven't allowed more than 17 points in a game since week 4. They started out horrible but have been very very good for their last 7 games.
Scott7975 Posted December 3, 2017 Posted December 3, 2017 5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....then why don't the pundits here see it that way?....seems to me Peterman is already a BUST in their eyes....and yes Dennison is the culprit IMO hiding behind McD's cape.....'lil coward.............. So I take it you are comfortable with Peterman being our starting QB next season? A 5th round pick pretty much cant be a bust. By that point most of the players are below average. That doesn't mean he is any good. He isn't. He has hype. He has a couple strong points. Not enough strong points that will make me ever think he could be a franchise QB. Of course that could change if he were to play again and knock our socks off. It was only one half a football game but it was probably the worst half of football I have ever seen out of a QB. That includes the likes of Geno Smith and Jeff Tuel. Nobody thinks those guys are going to be any good ever. Why is it people want to believe Peterman could be? He was a 5th round pick for a reason and he showed why.
Bing Bong Posted December 3, 2017 Posted December 3, 2017 11 hours ago, jmc12290 said: Jax turned it around by tanking. So did the Titans. The Texans tanked one year and turned it around to being a good team. KC was a basement dweller and turned it into yearly postseason contenders Panthers got Cam. Colts got Luck (recent struggles with health notwithstanding) Lions got Stafford. All in the last 10 years. And the Browns?
Kirby Jackson Posted December 3, 2017 Posted December 3, 2017 41 minutes ago, Scott7975 said: To be fair the Pats haven't allowed more than 17 points in a game since week 4. They started out horrible but have been very very good for their last 7 games. They give up 4.9 ypc, last in the NFL. I said that their run defense isn’t good. It isn’t.
reddogblitz Posted December 3, 2017 Posted December 3, 2017 8 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: 8 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...IF EVER?...seriously?.....hell if I was a potential draftee, I'd stay in school and get my PhD before subjecting myself to you and the "One and Done Gang" in Buffalo.....if ever?...pretty pathetic... Maybe if he's still on the team ...
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