Trading up for Zay Jones - what it might say about the Bills Offense

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 minutes ago, Rad Likes The Bills said:

This is just absolutely ridiculous to say. So we picked up our 2nd round receiver for our already pre-determined 5th rd QB? No they picked up receivers to FIT THEIR SCHEME. Not for the quarterback

They were picked up to improve the passing game. 

 

When that plan didn’t work they went to another option.  

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Please. No team acquires WRs with a 5th round rookie QB in mind.  They had a need at the position irrespective of Peterman that led to the acquisition of both. 

 

Zay was definitely acquired for the style of offense they want to run.

 

Benjamin was a last minute desperation heave to get some kind of legit threat at WR in before it sank their playoff hopes..........they hadn't even been discussing him with Carolina until hours before the deadline from my understanding.

 

KB was acceptable as a fall back because he at least fit the style of offense they WANT to run.   They just couldn't get the cheaper options they were working on at the deadline....Pryor or Bryant........players that would have fit Taylor better.

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

I just don't think he fit the scheme at all.  The scheme is all about quick passing which helps the offensive line.  Tyrod doesn't throw those quick hitters that this scheme thrives on and that has been a big reason for the huge sack numbers in my opinion.  If a team puts 5 on the defensive line, you have to get rid of the ball quickly.  That eliminates that pressure and they will likely have to back off of the line which opens up the run game a little.  Tyrod was just way too hesitant to be a good passer in this scheme.  We actually have a lot of weapons for a QB, Tyrod just was incapable of using them properly. Tyrod plays his best when he can hold onto the ball and that doesn't fit what Dennison does best with play calling

The WCO scheme is basically short underneath passes like an extended handoff and different OC's run their own versions. The Bills were winning with Taylor at QB and were 5-2 up until that Jets game.

 

The Jets ran a version of Rex Ryans "overload Blitz" in which the Jets defense always sent more rushers than blockers and the Bills weren't prepared for it in any way shape or form. Thus a Jets defensive line that hadn't had a sack all season suddenly looking like the greatest line ever with seven sacks.

 

While I agree with you about Taylor's shortcomings in being able to defeat a heavy pass rush. I also think a lot had to do with the lack of line protections with the OC not calling for extra blockers to help protect the QB. How hard would it be to send in extra TE's or even OT's to help block the extra rushers? (Castillo)

 

I kinda doubt the Bills drafted Zay Jones or Peterman thinking that they would be saviors in their first seasons. I think they expected both to eventually become decent players and Peterman a backup. I myself don't think much of Dennison's playcalling or the offense he runs as the passing offense has basically the same stats as last season with Taylor. Anthony Lynn did so much better with the offense and in particular with the run game. ( I realize that Juan Castillo is the run game coordinator and line coach) I can only hope this is Castillo's only season in Buffalo as he really stinks. 

[dulles]

41 minutes ago, Rad Likes The Bills said:

This is just absolutely ridiculous to say. So we picked up our 2nd round receiver for our already pre-determined 5th rd QB? No they picked up receivers to FIT THEIR SCHEME. Not for the quarterback

They picked a QB and a WR that fit their scheme.  Thankfully, their scheme should be cohesive, so the QB and WR will work together well with each other AND with the scheme.  It's called a plan.  I think they have one.  I hope it's a good one. 

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Please. No team acquires WRs with a 5th round rookie QB in mind.  They had a need at the position irrespective of Peterman that led to the acquisition of both. 

Let me add that fact that Zay Jones was drafted three rounds before Peterman that makes the logic behind your point nonexistent. 

 

True, of course. But the fact that both the WR and the QB fit the system confirms that they already knew the direction they wanted to go in. The fact that they waited until the fifth to pick Peterman also suggests to me that if he turns out to be any good he will be greatly exceeding their expectations. And especially given their choice of scheme if he pans out they really will have lucked out. 

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Zay and Kelvin we're both acquired for Nate. It couldn't be more obvious. 

 

Brilliant ....

[Bookie Man]

We've got a few bigger sized receivers, all with a nice catch radius. Nice skill set for NP I think. He'll give them a chance to make plays.

[The Now Moment]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

The WCO scheme is basically short underneath passes like an extended handoff and different OC's run their own versions. The Bills were winning with Taylor at QB and were 5-2 up until that Jets game.

 

The Jets ran a version of Rex Ryans "overload Blitz" in which the Jets defense always sent more rushers than blockers and the Bills weren't prepared for it in any way shape or form. Thus a Jets defensive line that hadn't had a sack all season suddenly looking like the greatest line ever with seven sacks.

 

While I agree with you about Taylor's shortcomings in being able to defeat a heavy pass rush. I also think a lot had to do with the lack of line protections with the OC not calling for extra blockers to help protect the QB. How hard would it be to send in extra TE's or even OT's to help block the extra rushers? (Castillo)

 

I kinda doubt the Bills drafted Zay Jones or Peterman thinking that they would be saviors in their first seasons. I think they expected both to eventually become decent players and Peterman a backup. I myself don't think much of Dennison's playcalling or the offense he runs as the passing offense has basically the same stats as last season with Taylor. Anthony Lynn did so much better with the offense and in particular with the run game. ( I realize that Juan Castillo is the run game coordinator and line coach) I can only hope this is Castillo's only season in Buffalo as he really stinks. 

I'm aware of what a west coast offense is haha.  Tyrod's strengths are the exact opposite of quick short passes that are based on timing and anticipation.  He throws a nice long ball and can extend plays with his legs.  That's not what fits Dennison's scheme.  If you are a new coaching staff, I really don't think you want to bend your system and playcalling because your QB is too conservative.  He may not lose us the game but he hasn't proven that he can win us a game.  

 

If your OC has to put in extra blockers throughout the game because your QB holds onto the ball too long and doesn't throw to receivers, I highly doubt you'd have any success on offense.  He could've nixed the Jets game plan by throwing quick passes against them but he couldn't do that.  Plus, if putting a 5th defender on the defensive line and stacking the box constantly against us isn't completely disrespecting our passing game, I don't know what is.  He just doesn't fit.  He's not aggressive enough as a passer and willing to make a through into a tight window. Sure he can make some plays when things break down but it breaks down because he can't make the initial reads and complete the passes.  His best passes are on broken plays which is okay but that's not gonna make us better than average.  

 

Dennison has showed me he could work with Trevor Siemian...I think Tyrod is the problem, not Dennison.  That's how I see it 

 

By the way, Trevor Siemian had 3,401 yards 18 TDs and 10 INTS in 14 starts last year in that system...now he looks like hot garbage

[Sweats]

Zay will catch anything thrown in his direction, you say?.................not from what i've seen.

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Zay will catch anything thrown in his direction, you say?.................not from what i've seen.

Conspiracy! Zay wanted Nate at QB so he purposely dropped Tyrod’s passes. And here I thought he was point shaving.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

38 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Zay will catch anything thrown in his direction, you say?.................not from what i've seen.

Not the first few games.  Since then it’s been a whole different story. 

33 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Conspiracy! Zay wanted Nate at QB so he purposely dropped Tyrod’s passes. And here I thought he was point shaving.

 

Wait I need to find my tin foil hat to talk conspiracies.   

 

Wasn’t Zay 7 for 7 in a game?

 

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Buffalo30 said:

I'm aware of what a west coast offense is haha.  Tyrod's strengths are the exact opposite of quick short passes that are based on timing and anticipation.  He throws a nice long ball and can extend plays with his legs.  That's not what fits Dennison's scheme.  If you are a new coaching staff, I really don't think you want to bend your system and playcalling because your QB is too conservative.  He may not lose us the game but he hasn't proven that he can win us a game.  

 

If your OC has to put in extra blockers throughout the game because your QB holds onto the ball too long and doesn't throw to receivers, I highly doubt you'd have any success on offense.  He could've nixed the Jets game plan by throwing quick passes against them but he couldn't do that.  Plus, if putting a 5th defender on the defensive line and stacking the box constantly against us isn't completely disrespecting our passing game, I don't know what is.  He just doesn't fit.  He's not aggressive enough as a passer and willing to make a through into a tight window. Sure he can make some plays when things break down but it breaks down because he can't make the initial reads and complete the passes.  His best passes are on broken plays which is okay but that's not gonna make us better than average.  

 

Dennison has showed me he could work with Trevor Siemian...I think Tyrod is the problem, not Dennison.  That's how I see it 

 

By the way, Trevor Siemian had 3,401 yards 18 TDs and 10 INTS in 14 starts last year in that system...now he looks like hot garbage

Really good coaches build their schemes around their players and find ways to help them make plays. Rex Ryan was a "my way or the highway" guy and ruined a great 4-3 scheme. As an example. 

 

We all know Tyrod Taylor's somewhat pocket limitations and while he isn't a gunslinger. He certainly is very careful with the ball and you won't get him to throw many INTs. I don't see Tyrod Taylor as the trainwreck you make him out to be.

 

It really remains to be seen if the opposing defenses bring more rushers than blockers if Peterman can beat that rush. I think he can, but we don't know that yet and If left up to the OC to find ways not to get Peterman sacked I think he fails just like he did with Taylor. 

 

You come away saying it's all on the QB. I say it's both the OC, run game OC / line coach and the QB.

 

Week 9 Bills @ Jets highlights, It wasn't all Tyrod. 

 

 

[The Now Moment]

34 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Really good coaches build their schemes around their players and find ways to help them make plays. Rex Ryan was a "my way or the highway" guy and ruined a great 4-3 scheme. As an example. 

 

We all know Tyrod Taylor's somewhat pocket limitations and while he isn't a gunslinger. He certainly is very careful with the ball and you won't get him to throw many INTs. I don't see Tyrod Taylor as the trainwreck you make him out to be.

 

It really remains to be seen if the opposing defenses bring more rushers than blockers if Peterman can beat that rush. I think he can, but we don't know that yet and If left up to the OC to find ways not to get Peterman sacked I think he fails just like he did with Taylor. 

 

You come away saying it's all on the QB. I say it's both the OC, run game OC / line coach and the QB.

 

Week 9 Bills @ Jets highlights, It wasn't all Tyrod. 

 

 

Tyrod isn't a trainwreck for certain schemes.  For ones that require him to be aggressive and make quick reads, yeah he is. 

 

He misses wide open wide receivers all the time.  We are 30th in passing...that's just inexcusable.  

 

I think Peterman's style gives us a better chance.  He could be terrible but the quick release QB is what we need in this scheme with the players we have.

 

I don't know of many coaches that take a head coaching job and immediately switch their scheme because of the players they inherited, especially if they are average players like Tyrod.  How are they supposed to coach their best if they aren't familiar with the scheme?  Tyrod hasn't shown to be a great player in his previous two seasons?  Why would they change their scheme for a guy that may not be the starter soon.  I think it was pretty clear going into this that Tyrod was given the opportunity to win the job as the Future Quarterback of the Buffalo Bills but if he didn't improve a ton, he would be kicked to the curb.  I mean they made him take a pay cut before the season started.  He's played okay in his 2 and a half years here but why would they settle for his mediocre play and hurt their chances of being successful long term. They have a rookie that they drafted specifically to fit this type of scheme.  Why not let him play since Tyrod has clearly shown he can't run the system and improve.  They also have a lot of high draft picks that they can use to find a young promising QB to develop if they decide to go that direction this year.  It's about the long term success, not potentially making it to the playoffs one year with a terrible AFC only to be steamrolled in the first round.  

 

Of course it's not all on the QB but very good QBs can overcome a lot of the things Tyrod hasn't been able to.

 

Again, the bottom line for me is: why would a new coaching staff change their schemes for a QB they aren't certain is the future of this team and hasn't proven to be anything more than mediocre?  

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Buffalo30

[row_33]

It’s was tough when your alleged NFL QB can’t hit you in stride. It’s over your head or you have to stop and come back or it’s a hospital pass over the middle.

[Nihilarian]

14 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

Tyrod isn't a trainwreck for certain schemes.  For ones that require him to be aggressive and make quick reads, yeah he is. 

 

He misses wide open wide receivers all the time.  We are 30th in passing...that's just inexcusable.  

 

I think Peterman's style gives us a better chance.  He could be terrible but the quick release QB is what we need in this scheme with the players we have.

 

I don't know of many coaches that take a head coaching job and immediately switch their scheme because of the players they inherited, especially if they are average players like Tyrod.  How are they supposed to coach their best if they aren't familiar with the scheme?  Tyrod hasn't shown to be a great player in his previous two seasons?  Why would they change their scheme for a guy that may not be the starter soon.  I think it was pretty clear going into this that Tyrod was given the opportunity to win the job as the Future Quarterback of the Buffalo Bills but if he didn't improve a ton, he would be kicked to the curb.  I mean they made him take a pay cut before the season started.  He's played okay in his 2 and a half years here but why would they settle for his mediocre play and hurt their chances of being successful long term. They have a rookie that they drafted specifically to fit this type of scheme.  Why not let him play since Tyrod has clearly shown he can't run the system and improve.  They also have a lot of high draft picks that they can use to find a young promising QB to develop if they decide to go that direction this year.  It's about the long term success, not potentially making it to the playoffs one year with a terrible AFC only to be steamrolled in the first round.  

 

Of course it's not all on the QB but very good QBs can overcome a lot of the things Tyrod hasn't been able to.

 

Again, the bottom line for me is: why would a new coaching staff change their schemes for a QB they aren't certain is the future of this team and hasn't proven to be anything more than mediocre?  

 

 

I think we are both hoping Peterman does well and remains the starter. I just don't have the faith in this offensive coaching staff that you do and really want to see Juan Castillo elsewhere in 2018. As far as Dennison is concerned from what I've seen he didn't do anything to improve Tyrod Taylor and I'm not sure he is the guy the Bills want developing Peterman or even a new rookie next year. 

 

EDIT* On the NFL Today Coach Bill Cowher mentioned that the Bills have been slow starters on offense all season and that the first 15 plays are scripted by the teams OC. Which falls right on Dennison to get it done and Cowher mentioned that he might be a problem too. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by Nihilarian