Ancient Urartian castle found in Lake Van, Turkey

[Saxum]

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ancient-castle-studied-in-lake-van-122422
Also fascinating are the microbialites (a fresh water equivalent to coral reefs which is rare).

If I was a diver it is definitely a place I'd like to go on vacation to.

 

[Greybeard]

   Obviously the result of Global Warming.

[/dev/null]

1 minute ago, Greybeard said:

   Obviously the result of Global Warming.

Earth's climate has been changing for the last 4 and a half billion years.  And there were civilizations as old or older than the Egyptians or Mesopotamians that have risen and fallen that we have either lost the record or have no record of them at all

 

[Deranged Rhino]

6 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

Earth's climate has been changing for the last 4 and a half billion years.  And there were civilizations as old or older than the Egyptians or Mesopotamians that have risen and fallen that we have either lost the record or have no record of them at all

 

 

[DC Tom]

11 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

Earth's climate has been changing for the last 4 and a half billion years.  And there were civilizations as old or older than the Egyptians or Mesopotamians that have risen and fallen that we have either lost the record or have no record of them at all

 

 

There's probably a huge history of pastoral nomadic societies from 5000 BCE and earlier that we'll never know anything about, because they had oral traditions and no writing.  History is biased towards literacy.  It's less that Sumer was the first civilization in Mesopotamia than it is they were the first to write things down.

 

History is also biased towards persistence - the Sumerians wrote in clay, then fired it so it lasts milennia.  That has interesting implications for modern society, given how much of our data storage is non-persistent.  2000 years from now, archaeologists could consider now another Dark Age.

[Deranged Rhino]

4 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

There's probably a huge history of pastoral nomadic societies from 5000 BCE and earlier that we'll never know anything about, because they had oral traditions and no writing.  History is biased towards literacy.  It's less that Sumer was the first civilization in Mesopotamia than it is they were the first to write things down.

 

History is also biased towards persistence - the Sumerians wrote in clay, then fired it so it lasts milennia.  That has interesting implications for modern society, given how much of our data storage is non-persistent.  2000 years from now, archaeologists could consider now another Dark Age.

[GoBills808]

8 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

There's probably a huge history of pastoral nomadic societies from 5000 BCE and earlier that we'll never know anything about, because they had oral traditions and no writing.  History is biased towards literacy.  It's less that Sumer was the first civilization in Mesopotamia than it is they were the first to write things down.

 

History is also biased towards persistence - the Sumerians wrote in clay, then fired it so it lasts milennia.  That has interesting implications for modern society, given how much of our data storage is non-persistent.  2000 years from now, archaeologists could consider now another Dark Age.

IMO it won't be the data storage persistence or lack thereof that in 2000 years will inform archaeologists as to our present state of affairs. Similar to previous civilizations, our legacy will be preserved primarily in our capacity to inscribe physical alterations to the landscape.

[Deranged Rhino]

57 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

IMO it won't be the data storage persistence or lack thereof that in 2000 years will inform archaeologists as to our present state of affairs. Similar to previous civilizations, our legacy will be preserved primarily in our capacity to inscribe physical alterations to the landscape.

 

Kind of like this... 

 

 

 

 

And this on Phobos:

 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Deranged Rhino

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, Greybeard said:

   Obviously the result of Global Warming.

they were orginally looking for Noah's Ark.

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 hour ago, DC Tom said:

 

There's probably a huge history of pastoral nomadic societies from 5000 BCE and earlier that we'll never know anything about, because they had oral traditions and no writing.  History is biased towards literacy.  It's less that Sumer was the first civilization in Mesopotamia than it is they were the first to write things down.

 

History is also biased towards persistence - the Sumerians wrote in clay, then fired it so it lasts milennia.  That has interesting implications for modern society, given how much of our data storage is non-persistent.  2000 years from now, archaeologists could consider now another Dark Age.

Does this mean my wedding video on VHS is not forever?

 

[/dev/null]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

IMO it won't be the data storage persistence or lack thereof that in 2000 years will inform archaeologists as to our present state of affairs. Similar to previous civilizations, our legacy will be preserved primarily in our capacity to inscribe physical alterations to the landscape.

 

Our present state of affairs will be forgotten within 2000 years.  Steel rusts and concrete breaks down over time.  The only monuments to our civilization that will still be standing in 2000 years are Mount Rushmore and Hoover Dam

4 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

There's probably a huge history of pastoral nomadic societies from 5000 BCE and earlier that we'll never know anything about, because they had oral traditions and no writing.  History is biased towards literacy.  It's less that Sumer was the first civilization in Mesopotamia than it is they were the first to write things down.

 

History is also biased towards persistence - the Sumerians wrote in clay, then fired it so it lasts milennia.  That has interesting implications for modern society, given how much of our data storage is non-persistent.  2000 years from now, archaeologists could consider now another Dark Age.

 

What do you mean my solid state hard drive won't be around in 2000 years?  those !@#$ers are expensive!

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

Our present state of affairs will be forgotten within 2000 years.  Steel rusts and concrete breaks down over time.  The only monuments to our civilization that will still be standing in 2000 years are Mount Rushmore and Hoover Dam

 

I think they'll see graded, flattened, unusually hollow underfoot expanses of overgrowth with tons and tons of plastics buried amidst the rubble and be able to say 'That must have been LA. That's Chicago. Houston etc...' 2000 years is a long time but there won't have been any erosion to speak of, geologically these sites will be in pretty much the exact shape we left them in. 

[/dev/null]

22 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think they'll see graded, flattened, unusually hollow underfoot expanses of overgrowth with tons and tons of plastics buried amidst the rubble and be able to say 'That must have been LA. That's Chicago. Houston etc...' 2000 years is a long time but there won't have been any erosion to speak of, geologically these sites will be in pretty much the exact shape we left them in. 

 

http://www.history.com/shows/life-after-people

[Deranged Rhino]

42 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

Our present state of affairs will be forgotten within 2000 years.  Steel rusts and concrete breaks down over time.  The only monuments to our civilization that will still be standing in 2000 years are Mount Rushmore and Hoover Dam

 

We'll have a few things left sprinkled on the moon and mars before we're done. Which the next civilization's astronauts can discover. 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, /dev/null said:

 

Our present state of affairs will be forgotten within 2000 years.  Steel rusts and concrete breaks down over time.  The only monuments to our civilization that will still be standing in 2000 years are Mount Rushmore and Hoover Dam

 

What do you mean my solid state hard drive won't be around in 2000 years?  those !@#$ers are expensive!

 

Thats why my ***** in the cloud.  The cloud is always.  

[/dev/null]

3 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Thats why my ***** in the cloud.  The cloud is always.  

Only if it's pornographic or embarassing

[/dev/null]

On a related note, an ancient carving shows Man's Best Friend has been at our side for at least 8000 years

 

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/these-may-be-world-s-first-images-dogs-and-they-re-wearing-leashes

[Greybeard]

22 hours ago, /dev/null said:

On a related note, an ancient carving shows Man's Best Friend has been at our side for at least 8000 years

 

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/11/these-may-be-world-s-first-images-dogs-and-they-re-wearing-leashes

       

 

       Attached is a link about the domesticaion of foxes.  Shows that you can get tame foxes that behave like dogs in as little as 10 years.   I believe I saw the entire

show on this years ago on the Discovery channel.    Selecting for tameness also causes the variety in color.

 

       

 

[Fadingpain]

On November 17, 2017 at 6:56 PM, /dev/null said:

 

Our present state of affairs will be forgotten within 2000 years.  Steel rusts and concrete breaks down over time.  The only monuments to our civilization that will still be standing in 2000 years are Mount Rushmore and Hoover Dam

 

What do you mean my solid state hard drive won't be around in 2000 years?  those !@#$ers are expensive!

Actually, most of the colosseum is still standing b/c the Romans used concrete in its construction along with what could effectively be called "rebar".

 

What does not survive time (mostly due to earthquakes) is stuff made out of stone.

 

 

This is the Flakturm or "flak tower" in Humbolthain Park in Berlin.  I've wandered all around and in this thing. 

 

Berlin had 3 of these monster flak towers during the War; there are many throughout Germany/Europe.

Vienna has several beauties.

 

They are still there because they are literally indestructible, made from steel re-enforced concrete.  They tried to destroy them after the War and concluded it was not worth the effort/expense.

 

There are reports from the Battle for Berlin in which the Russians brought up their biggest guns and were firing directly into the walls of the Flak towers from ridiculous ranges, like 75 meters...line drives.  These were monster shells and they were just bouncing off the walls.  There are many little pock marks in the outer walls from those shots.  

 

The Earth is currently covered in man-made stuff that is going to be here forever.  It might end up overgrown, but it ain't gonna fall to dust.

 

 

 

[Fadingpain]

PS:  If anyone is interested in ancient civilizations, go to youtube or Joe Rogan's podcast site, and watch/listen to any and all podcasts with Joe Rogan and his guests Randall Carlson and/or Graham Hancock (who is pictured above in this thread).

 

Each has been on several times and both were on together as co-guests at least once, maybe twice.

 

Some fascinating stuff and they'll be discussing things like Göbekli Tepe in Turkey and other cool stuff.

 

Göbekli Tepe is a permanent city built like 10,000 BCE or possibly earlier....at a time when human beings were supposed to be hunter/gatherers and not nearly sophisticated enough to do things like build cities.

 

Just shows how much ancient knowledge is lost and forgotten.

 

Hancock likes to argue the age of the Sphinx as well, suggesting that it is much older than Egyptologists claim due to the alleged erosion signatures in the bedrock surrounding it.  

 

All really interesting stuff regardless of how compelling you find their arguments.

 

Randall Carlson studies ancient epic geological events and he is a really fascinating guy.