Mikie2times Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Last year all we hear is that the starter is going to be the player that gives us the best chance to win. Now Fast forward to present time with the way they handled JP's promotion. How does their stance with Bledsoe all last year apply in anyway to the way they gave JP the job? I'm not saying getting rid of Bledsoe was not the correct move, IMO it was. What I'm saying is they're being inconsistent with the players and that his a huge mistake. Watch the NFL network and one of the main things coaches stress in interviews is the importance of consistency. Many go as far as saying it is the most important factor in coaching success. Not only was it inconsistent for the players it was also extremely premature. How can you give the starting position away when you don't even have the roster finalized? Is Holcomb a savior? No he's not. But he does have enough ability and experience to push Losman in a open QB competition. We also are now stuck permanently with Losman no matter how he performs. You think a coach would bench a first round, first year starter at QB after he was anointed the starting roll? Thats how QB's psyches are destroyed so it's not gonna happen. One quick fix to these problems is Losman playing well, if he does that will prove he deserved the starting position. I just don't think a first year QB playing poorly is that out of the question. I for one will be following these situations closely next season if JP starts slow.
Albany,n.y. Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Last year all we hear is that the starter is going to be the player that gives us the best chance to win. Now Fast forward to present time with the way they handled JP's promotion. How does their stance with Bledsoe all last year apply in anyway to the way they gave JP the job? I'm not saying getting rid of Bledsoe was not the correct move, IMO it was. What I'm saying is they're being inconsistent with the players and that his a huge mistake. Watch the NFL network and one of the main things coaches stress in interviews is the importance of consistency. Many go as far as saying it is the most important factor in coaching success. Not only was it inconsistent for the players it was also extremely premature. How can you give the starting position away when you don't even have the roster finalized? Is Holcomb a savior? No he's not. But he does have enough ability and experience to push Losman in a open QB competition. We also are now stuck permanently with Losman no matter how he performs. You think a coach would bench a first round, first year starter at QB after he was anointed the starting roll? Thats how QB's psyches are destroyed so it's not gonna happen. One quick fix to these problems is Losman playing well, if he does that will prove he deserved the starting position. I just don't think a first year QB playing poorly is that out of the question. I for one will be following these situations closely next season if JP starts slow. 265017[/snapback] TD & MM are quaking in their boots knowing how closely you'll be watching. The coaches spent every day with JP and are evaluating him based on observation. You don't have any idea what they've seen, they have & made an informed decision knowing JP & DB up close.
DeeRay Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 We also are now stuck permanently with Losman no matter how he performs. You think a coach would bench a first round, first year starter at QB after he was anointed the starting roll? Thats how QB's psyches are destroyed so it's not gonna happen. Dude.... 1) nothing is permanent.... period. 2) Yes, a first year starter will get benched for poor performance. Do you think if JP or any other Qb stinks out the house he wouldn't get yanked? Do you think a coach would risk losing the players around him if JP wasn't pulling his weight or playing up to expectations? Why the hell do you think they brought Kelly Holcomb in... as a prop? as a cheerleader? No. They want to have someone in th shadows should JP falter... or get injured Lastly... the move to annoint JP as the starter fits Donahoe's modus opperandi perfectly. Teflon Tom's job is not to turn this team into a super bowl winner. His job is to prepare this team to be sold when Ralph either says "sell" or meets his maker. Thus the strategy to hire Gregg Williams, then after 3 years of rebuilding, begin that process over completely again by hiring Mularkey instead of a proven HC, and then, of course being wrong on Bledsoe, instead of going with a proven vet, JP starts.... sustaining the never ending cycle that Donahoe has this team in ... constantly rebuilding. The majority of the posters bich & whine about the Oline performance.... well, after 4 seaons as a GM, what the hell has Donahoe done to improve it.... not a hell of a lot. If you, or anyone else thinks this team will even make the playoffs next season.... well, then you are dilussional.
Mikie2times Posted March 7, 2005 Author Posted March 7, 2005 TD & MM are quaking in their boots knowing how closely you'll be watching. The coaches spent every day with JP and are evaluating him based on observation. You don't have any idea what they've seen, they have & made an informed decision knowing JP & DB up close. 265039[/snapback] First off I just said I will be looking for these situations next year, never even implied that TD or MM gave a rats ass about me. Secondly as you said the coaches are in a much better position to evaluate JP then I am. But what along the lines of NFL game experience do they have on JP? A couple of preseason games? A couple passes and a bunch of hand-offs? Why tie your hands by making such an announcement? They would have been better off even having a skewed QB competition in the preseason. At least that way it appears to the team that he won the job. You would also have the benefit of a full roster to make the decision. I just don't understand why the "best players start" theory was only in effect for last season.
jarthur31 Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Last year all we hear is that the starter is going to be the player that gives us the best chance to win. Now Fast forward to present time with the way they handled JP's promotion. How does their stance with Bledsoe all last year apply in anyway to the way they gave JP the job? I'm not saying getting rid of Bledsoe was not the correct move, IMO it was. What I'm saying is they're being inconsistent with the players and that his a huge mistake. Watch the NFL network and one of the main things coaches stress in interviews is the importance of consistency. Many go as far as saying it is the most important factor in coaching success. Not only was it inconsistent for the players it was also extremely premature. How can you give the starting position away when you don't even have the roster finalized? Is Holcomb a savior? No he's not. But he does have enough ability and experience to push Losman in a open QB competition. We also are now stuck permanently with Losman no matter how he performs. You think a coach would bench a first round, first year starter at QB after he was anointed the starting roll? Thats how QB's psyches are destroyed so it's not gonna happen. One quick fix to these problems is Losman playing well, if he does that will prove he deserved the starting position. I just don't think a first year QB playing poorly is that out of the question. I for one will be following these situations closely next season if JP starts slow. 265017[/snapback] I'm a realist and I don't think JP will lead us to the playoffs. Big Ben didn't either. He had a great D and monstrous running game that paved the way. Oh he played above expectations but you couldn't rely on him to win games for you. The same thing applies here. We must find a bruiser to backup Willis and I think we'll do fine. Our D is already pretty good.
jarthur31 Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Dude....1) nothing is permanent.... period. 2) Yes, a first year starter will get benched for poor performance. Do you think if JP or any other Qb stinks out the house he wouldn't get yanked? Do you think a coach would risk losing the players around him if JP wasn't pulling his weight or playing up to expectations? Why the hell do you think they brought Kelly Holcomb in... as a prop? as a cheerleader? No. They want to have someone in th shadows should JP falter... or get injured Lastly... the move to annoint JP as the starter fits Donahoe's modus opperandi perfectly. Teflon Tom's job is not to turn this team into a super bowl winner. His job is to prepare this team to be sold when Ralph either says "sell" or meets his maker. Thus the strategy to hire Gregg Williams, then after 3 years of rebuilding, begin that process over completely again by hiring Mularkey instead of a proven HC, and then, of course being wrong on Bledsoe, instead of going with a proven vet, JP starts.... sustaining the never ending cycle that Donahoe has this team in ... constantly rebuilding. The majority of the posters bich & whine about the Oline performance.... well, after 4 seaons as a GM, what the hell has Donahoe done to improve it.... not a hell of a lot. If you, or anyone else thinks this team will even make the playoffs next season.... well, then you are dilussional. 265042[/snapback] You're right on about the line! But most folks here complained about DB not the sucky line. TD is responsible for the foundations of this line that hasn't played well enough to take over games yet.
Mikie2times Posted March 7, 2005 Author Posted March 7, 2005 I'm a realist and I don't think JP will lead us to the playoffs. 265051[/snapback] I don't think he will next year either which is why I don't see the harm in having an open competition in camp. I don't know whether Holcombe would win, but why treat the position differently then every other position on your team. I highly doubt the Bills would anoint any other starting spot on the roster to a player with no game experience. Why do it with JP? Make the kid earn it
IDBillzFan Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 His job is to prepare this team to be sold when Ralph either says "sell" or meets his maker. Thus the strategy to hire Gregg Williams, then after 3 years of rebuilding, begin that process over completely again by hiring Mularkey instead of a proven HC, and then, of course being wrong on Bledsoe, instead of going with a proven vet, JP starts.... sustaining the never ending cycle that Donahoe has this team in ... constantly rebuilding.265042[/snapback] Okay. TD is simply keeping us from winning so we can be sold? Wouldn't it make more sense to be a winner? Doesn't that carry more value than, say, a team that doesn't win? Where is the value in that? We should hang a sign at OBD: Team For Sale. Fixer Upper. Buy it now before the owner croaks and gives it to one of his kids. LMFAO.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 All ideas are dumb...until you are proved right. Then you're a genius. PTR
Snorom Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Personally I don't want to wait with JP... I want to see what he's got come what may
Mark VI Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 No argument whatsover on having doubts. But Bledsoe was a QB that Mularkey and Co. wanted OFF the roster. There is little doubt about it. As for handing the QB job to an unproven high draft pick, that's been done hundreds of times in NFL history. Hell, the Bills have done so with Richie Lucus, James Harris, Dennis Shaw, Joe Ferguson, Todd Collins. Kelly came from the USFL and was handed the job, without any NFL experience, if you wish to get technical. In the Cap age, this is even more likely to happen. John Kitna went to the Pro Bowl with Cinci, only to be handed a clipboard behind Carson Palmer in 2004. JP will get yanked in a heartbeat if he's completely befuddled and losing us games. The Bills believe Holcomb will make good decisions and keep us in the game. (Unlike Bledsoe, who could blow up many a game with galling turnovers) Holcomb will be 32 come the 2005 season and has around 3,800 yards for his entire career. If he was starting material, he would have kept his job in Cleveland. JP is raw but has 3 times the athletic ability Holcomb has. I'll defer to the coaching staff, especially Wyche (who developed Joe Montana as the San Fran QB coach under Walsh and also Boomer Esiason in Cinci. ). I'm excited about the upcoming season, since I believe the QB position has improved with JP and Holcomb on the roster. I'm a glass half full kind of person and aware of all the revisionist history of football.
Bill from NYC Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 No argument whatsover on having doubts. But Bledsoe was a QB that Mularkey and Co. wanted OFF the roster. There is little doubt about it. As for handing the QB job to an unproven high draft pick, that's been done hundreds of times in NFL history. Hell, the Bills have done so with Richie Lucus, James Harris, Dennis Shaw, Joe Ferguson, Todd Collins. Kelly came from the USFL and was handed the job, without any NFL experience, if you wish to get technical. In the Cap age, this is even more likely to happen. John Kitna went to the Pro Bowl with Cinci, only to be handed a clipboard behind Carson Palmer in 2004. JP will get yanked in a heartbeat if he's completely befuddled and losing us games. The Bills believe Holcomb will make good decisions and keep us in the game. (Unlike Bledsoe, who could blow up many a game with galling turnovers) Holcomb will be 32 come the 2005 season and has around 3,800 yards for his entire career. If he was starting material, he would have kept his job in Cleveland. JP is raw but has 3 times the athletic ability Holcomb has. I'll defer to the coaching staff, especially Wyche (who developed Joe Montana as the San Fran QB coach under Walsh and also Boomer Esiason in Cinci. ). >>>>No argument whatsover on having doubts. But Bledsoe was a QB that Mularkey and Co. wanted OFF the roster.<<<< This is completely true, but it begs the question, "WHY?" Imo, TD and MM, both Pittsburgh guys, viewed the season ender with the Steelers as Norwood's miss, or Buckner's error. Methinks there were some personal issues floating around. That said, this is history. They made their decision, and all we can do is hope the best for JP. As for the stats of KH, do you think they matter much? He, like Kitna, was stuck behind the 1st pick of a draft, and he hurt his shoulder. You were not impressed one iota by DB's gaudy stats? Why make an issue of stats wrt KH? Defending our child prodigy are we? I'm excited about the upcoming season, since I believe the QB position has improved with JP and Holcomb on the roster. I'm a glass half full kind of person and aware of all the revisionist history of football. 265171[/snapback]
Mark VI Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Not defending JP at all, Bill. Still I don't keep trying to tell my daughter "'you don't deserve a chance, since you'll probably fail " everyday either. Call me crazy. It's not in my person. Begs the question why ? Mularkey explained he wanted a lot more from that position and wanted the switch. Ask him. I found it humorous in an earlier posting that a DB supporter deferred credit away from Big Ben R. for the Steelers success. Said the Steelers won due to the Running game, the D etc. Stated you couldn't rely on Big Ben to win a game for you. ( These are comments regarding a Rookie, mind you ) Yet these same observations about 11 year Vet DB were always shouted down. LOL !
Bill from NYC Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Not defending JP at all, Bill. Still I don't keep trying to tell my daughter "'you don't deserve a chance, since you'll probably fail " everyday either. Call me crazy. It's not in my person. Begs the question why ? Mularkey explained he wanted a lot more from that position and wanted the switch. Ask him. I found it humorous in an earlier posting that a DB supporter deferred credit away from Big Ben R. for the Steelers success. Said the Steelers won due to the Running game, the D etc. Stated you couldn't rely on Big Ben to win a game for you. ( These are comments regarding a Rookie, mind you ) Yet these same observations about 11 year Vet DB were always shouted down. LOL ! 265177[/snapback] I also think there were those personal (Pittsburgh) issues as well. As for the Steelers, Big Ben DID win some games, but imo, nothing takes the place of a strong, deep offensive line. This was (again, imo) the key to the Steelers success. That is why qbs named Williams and Rypien have superbowl rings, or so I see it.
Britbillsfan Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 The majority of the posters bich & whine about the Oline performance.... well, after 4 seaons as a GM, what the hell has Donahoe done to improve it.... not a hell of a lot. 265042[/snapback] Teague, Williams, Jennings, Villarial 4 of last year's starters were TD's attempts in the last 4 years to imprvoe the line. Add the fact we now have McNally as well then I would say your statement is lacking, utterly, any basis in fact. You can argue that his pick ups have played like a pile of poop if you like, but to say he has done nothing or very little is just wrong. The line sucked when TD got here. As did most positions after the cap purge. Maybe this year it will show improvement if we can get a new LG and LT. (Demulling and Shelton - hopefully).
ganesh Posted March 7, 2005 Posted March 7, 2005 Not only was it inconsistent for the players it was also extremely premature. How can you give the starting position away when you don't even have the roster finalized? Is Holcomb a savior? No he's not. But he does have enough ability and experience to push Losman in a open QB competition. We also are now stuck permanently with Losman no matter how he performs. You think a coach would bench a first round, first year starter at QB after he was anointed the starting roll? Thats how QB's psyches are destroyed so it's not gonna happen. 265017[/snapback] I would rather not have a QB controversy and also having to share the starting QB duties during Mini-Camp/Camp between two players. I would rather ave that one player go through the full camp, so that he is adjusted (the Consistencny that youare talking about) and gets the consistency of having played with his starting line for the majority of the offseason.
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