What Is The Disadvantage To Throwing Confusing Defenses Against a QB?

[BadLandsMeanie]

I would like to ask a question because I don't know and I bet somebody here does.

In the text below Peterman says he knows they will try to confuse him because he is a rookie.

 

I wonder, why wouldn't they try to confuse everybody, rookie or not? I figure there has to be a way it can backfire on you, or they would always do it.

Is there a disadvantage that someone here knows ? Thanks

 

"Nathan Peterman knows exactly what he would be doing if his job was to prepare a defensive game plan for him to face Sunday.

Put together all of the mind-twisting variations of fronts and coverages as possible. Do a little disguising here, a bit of pre-snap adjusting and readjusting there.

Create a whole lot of confusion everywhere.

"I'm a rookie, so I'm sure the defensive coordinator will have something dialed up just for me being my first game," Peterman said of making his first NFL start when the Buffalo Bills face the Los Angeles Chargers at StubHub Center.

“I’m sure we’ll mix it," Chargers coach Anthony Lynn said in a conference call with Western New York media. "We won’t make it easy on him. I’m sure we’ll mix it.”"

 

 

 

[Steve Billieve]

Rex was having Mario drop into coverage . . . It wouldn't have suprised me if he had Darius drop into coverage once . . . I'm sure that might be confusing . . . and not just to the QB.

[BillsFan130]

It is pretty difficult to try and confuse good QBS. If you try to confuse them and they don't get fooled, that generally means you have a mismatch somewhere. (lineman dropping into coverage, rolling safeties around, etc.) And a good QB will expose those mismatches

 

 

[Buffalo716]

When you are showing looks to confuse a QB it can always go 2 ways

 

Really well or really poor 

 

Putting 2 linebackers over both A gaps

 

Cover 6 with corners showing quarters 

 

Tampa 2 with man

 

Rolling backside safety and corner blitzes

 

All can have great results...

 

But a QB who can process the hot read can neutralize any and all exotic looks

 

Brady has made a career of dumping it down to the hot running back when the opposing team brings exotic heat

 

If you can find the hot RB or TE you can March the ball at will

[dulles]

I think Rex's D is the prime example of exotic looks gone bad.  
If you can bring standard looks, occasional blitz packages, and pressure with just four linemen, you are much more stable on D.  
Schwartz and games 1-7 under McD are evidence of the benefits of a less exotic look.

[BobChalmers]

The effort to make it confusing to the offense can confuse your own defense if they haven't had years of practice in the scheme.   See Rex Ryan's Bills the last two seasons.

 

As others have stated, just the act of moving around to be deceptive can leave guys out of position even if they know where they are supposed to be.

[Big Turk]

Because guys can be late getting back to where they are supposed to be and leave holes that god QBs can take advantage of...for instance if a guy is pretending to blitz and then drops out at the snap, they are leaving a hole for a few seconds nutil they get to where they are supposed to be...a good QB will see it and take advantage of it.

 

They still do some of it, but just in selective situations...if Peterman handles it well and burns them a few times expect them to start doing less of it...if he doesn't or they get sacks and INT's, expect them to continue or do more of it...

Edited November 17, 2017 by matter2003

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

When you are showing looks to confuse a QB it can always go 2 ways

 

Really well or really poor 

 

Putting 2 linebackers over both A gaps

 

Cover 6 with corners showing quarters 

 

Tampa 2 with man

 

Rolling backside safety and corner blitzes

 

All can have great results...

 

But a QB who can process the hot read can neutralize any and all exotic looks

 

Brady has made a career of dumping it down to the hot running back when the opposing team brings exotic heat

 

If you can find the hot RB or TE you can March the ball at will

Thank you, I will have to start working on my vocabulary to understand better but I got most of it!

6 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Because guys can be late getting back to where they are supposed to be and leave holes that god QBs can take advantage of...for instance if a guy is pretending to blitz and then drops out at the snap, they are leaving a hole for a few seconds nutil they get to where they are supposed to be...a good QB will see it and take advantage of it.

 

They still do some of it, but just in selective situations...if Peterman handles it well and burns them a few times expect them to start doing less of it...if he doesn't or they get sacks and INT's, expect them to continue or do more of it...

Thanks matter. And thanks everybody so far I am learning and maybe I will get more out of the game this Sunday.

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Thank you, I will have to start working on my vocabulary to understand better but I got most of it!

Thanks matter. And thanks everybody so far I am learning and maybe I will get more out of the game this Sunday.

 

Vocab 101

 

Cover 6= half field in cover 2 half in cover 4

(corners showing quarters=quarters is what corners play in cover 4)

 

Tampa 2 is a bend but don't break zone defense. You can switch it up and have your outside corners play man

 

backside safety= safety creeeping to line of scrimmage on weak side 

 

hot= WR/RB in area where defenders blitzed from

(so when the defense blitzes, the spot where the blitzers came from is open and the receive or RB is hot)

Edited November 17, 2017 by Buffalo716

[BadLandsMeanie]

That was extremely nice of you. Thank you very much Buffalo716

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Vocab 101

 

Cover 6= half field in cover 2 half in cover 4

(corners showing quarters=quarters is what corners play in cover 4)

 

Tampa 2 is a bend but don't break zone defense. You can switch it up and have your outside corners play man

 

backside safety= safety creeeping to line of scrimmage on weak side 

 

hot= WR/RB in area where defenders blitzed from

(so when the defense blitzes, the spot where the blitzers came from is open and the receive or RB is hot)

 

To piggyback on this:

 

Cover 0: Man to man across the board with no deep safety help. This is the classic "all out pressure" look where they rush 7 and leave 4 to cover. New Orelans used this several times last week...worked very well against Tyrod, not so well against Peterman...Tyrod took sacks, Peterman got the ball out...didnt complete it but it went to the right receiver. Its a dangerous play on D because of the high chance for a big play if its completed...if the WR ends up beating his man there is noone there to stop him from reaching the end zone...its the ultimate "all or nothing" gamble on D...but it also works well to force the ball out quickly and make the tackle which is why it's usually used on 3rd and long most times...the ball has to come out, usually on a quick slant and then the defender makes the tackle short of the sticks and force a punt. Best to use with sure tackling DBs. If the D is very confident in their CBs they will play bump and run at the line with the WR...this leads to a deep throw on a go route against the coverage usually...if not they can also play it with the DB 5-10 yards off and have him just run up and make the tackle after they complete the quick throw. NO used the latter most times. In fact they were covering Clay with a strong safety when he was split out that was 11 yards downfield and 5 yards to his left...should have been first downs all day to him if Tyrod just three the ball, there was literally nobody there.

 

Cover 1: Man to man with the corners and strong safety with the free safety plahying "centerfield" in the middle. Corners align with an outside shade meaning they align on the outside shoulder of the WR and try and force them to the inside by taking away the sideline. That's called playing with "leverage" and why you hear the color commentators who were ex-players talking about how "You just CAN'T let your man get inside/outside you in that defense...you HAVE to maintain your leverage!"

 

Cover 3:  A zone concept where both outside corners and the free safety each take a deep 1/3 of the field.  The strong safety has the flat/curl responsibility on the strong side and the Will LB has the flat/curl responsibility on the weak side with the MLB having the middle 1/3 of the short zone.

 

Cover 4(or quarters coverage): 4 DB's align in a shell to take away the deep throws. There are a lot of different ways to run it but the most common one is to run it with the 2 CB's responsible for the outside quarters near the sidelines and the 2 safeties responsible for the 2 middle quarters.

 

Cover 5(sometimes called "Palms" or "Cathy"): Is a non-traditional defense that is typically a form of cover-2 but is really more scheme defined than anything...sometimes it is a base Tampa-2, other times it is a cover-2 pattern read, and still other times its cover-2 man.  "Palms" coverage is many times based off a read on the #2 WR and what route he runs...if he runs vertical, the CB plays WR #1, if he runs a flat/curl route the CB comes off WR #2 and the safety picks up WR #1.  Then the SAM LB typically splits the middle of those two players...But again, this is NOT always what it means, just a common form of it.

 

Then we get into things like Combo Coverages, Robber Coverages(where the safety will come off his man depending what route they run and jump the route of the CB to try and trick the QB into throwing to what he thinks is a wide open receiver), Zone blitzes, etc, etc...

 

Basically there are a wide variety of adjustments or calls that can be made on any given play to change what a particular player is doing or what his resposibility or key is.  This is where things can get REALLY confusing and why you see "blown" coverages...people think playing football is just like "OK, I got the play call, all I have to do is this one thing I'm supposed to do".  No, that isn't how it works.  What your assignment is on any given play is to a large degree dictated by what alignment the offense comes out in. If they come out in a trips bunch formation to one side versus a twin WR formation to one side and then a WR and TE split out wide on the other, you have a different responsiblity.  You not only have to know the "base" play call but also ALL the adjustments and what your role is on any adjustment that might be called.  It's far closer to chess than checkers...things can get REALLY complex...

 

Maybe when I have some time I can do a deep dive into various concepts and formations so people can get a better understanding of things...maybe I'll start with the defense and start breaking down a coverage per day.

 

There are many times when it might seem like a player got beaten badly, but he might actually be doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing in that playcall and the safety, for instance might have been late getting over and hung him out to dry...It's really difficult to tell most times, so unles you KNOW what the playcall was you don't really know who is responsible for it, only what your best guess is at who should have had him.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by matter2003

[Buffalo716]

Anytime BLM

[mjt328]

Rex Ryan's defense was the perfect example of "confusion" gone wrong.

In trying to confuse the quarterback, his own players were often caught out of position and unsure of where to be at the snap.

 

Jim Schwartz used a relatively simple defense.  His D-Line was loaded with talent, so he just let them go straight up against blockers.  More often than not, the Bills defenders won those matchups. 

 

The less talent you have, the more you need to rely on scheme to confuse your opponent.

[ROONDOGG55]

I'm sure it will be more pre snap type confusion than anything else. The Chargers will make him think the blitz is coming from the left and blitz right. Or they will blitz on passing downs on two consecutive plays, but fake the blitz on the 3rd. The best way to get a tell from the defense is the hard count, see where they jump or shift to, and make the necessary adjustments. From what I saw, it looks like Nate already had that in his arsenal before he got here, so I don't think the "confusion" will hinder his gameplay that much. May work in our favor if he catches the defense in a favorable matchup due to their "confusion" tactics.

[rant_and_go_returns]

A lot of teams just play base on the first drive, and see what you are good at. Some rookie QBs can never get past this point.

Then they take away what you are good at, and make you do something else. NE did this to Tyrod that first game with Rex at home. Let him drive down the field with the deep sideline and running in the pocket. Then shut it down the rest of the game.

Then just at the right time they win the game. Make you mess up, and go back to playing base.

Physical ability is bigger than scheme. Ever see one of those little fast guys in high school who make everyone miss? The big guys can do that in the NFL. Crazy. QBs need to hit the green from the tee on every throw. Landing in the rough ends the drive, landing in the bunker is a INT that could end the game.

Also, you really don't see a good coverage rotation in high school or college. It's really just stop the run, rush the passer, and play man. In the NFL, they can drop a LB back into the safety position, have the CB play the underneath, and then the safety comes down to play the man or sideline zone. QB sees one thing at snap, another thing when he's starting to throw. Really hard to adjust. Literary bang-bang reactions that have to be ingrained.

[apuszczalowski]

They do it to rookies to try and confuse them or throw them off because they lack experience, they don't usually do it to veterans cause they are less likely to be nervous and most likely to recognise a mismatch that might come up because of the confusion.

 

Reasons not to do it, cause it might also be more difficult and confusing for your own defenders to have to remember these plays, and because against the better QBs, you are usually trying to defend what they are trying to do, not them trying to run a play to beat what the defence is trying to do. In most games the defence isn't dictating what the offence is going to have to do, the offence controls what is going to be run and the defence tries to stop that.

[K D]

the only people we were confusing with Rex's defense was our own players!

[BuffaloHokie13]

It's simply experience, or lack thereof. Generally speaking, disguising fronts and getting exotic works on less experienced QBs because they aren't clued into it. What disguising fronts also does is put players out of position at times, or makes the path the their assignment longer. Experienced starters can recognize and punish this.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

It is pretty difficult to try and confuse good QBS. If you try to confuse them and they don't get fooled, that generally means you have a mismatch somewhere. (lineman dropping into coverage, rolling safeties around, etc.) And a good QB will expose those mismatches

 

 

To the OP

They do.  

To this post. 

 

Drew Brees said that McDermott tried  to throw confusing defenses at him Sunday.  Drew managed to make the best of them.  

[Jerome007]

Some great pointers in this thread. And a good original question as I'm sure defenses want to confuse every QB, not just rookies. And if they can  too cute, they can confuse themselves.