CTE Discovered in a Living Patient

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think it's more the fact that it's now apparently possible to diagnose someone with CTE before they're dead. Perhaps they'll be able to further refine tests that can measure the severity of the injuries and their relation to degenerative brain disorders, at which point it would absolutely be of use to players and families of players interested in the prevention of the some of diseases associated with CTE.

 

 

This is a patient with gross neurological disease at the time his blood test was positive.  The blood test hardly added anything to the correlation between his obvious clinical disease and his autopsy finding.

 

Any blood test would have to be much more specific for neurologic disease itself.  This would take far more than the "within 5 years" that the CTE doctor is telling everyone.  Because neuro disease in football players is still rare, it would take  a many years long study which starts recording blood levels of specific markers in otherwise healthy football players and then seeing of there is a threshold level of "abnormal levels" which correlates with actual disease.  When a player approached those levels, he may decide to call it quits.

 

But because the numbers of affected players are so small, it would take years to accrue enough participants to power such a conclusion to statistical significance.  They are now where near that now--in fact they aren't even talking about it this ay.  They are simply saying "hey, we have a marker for CTE".

Edited November 17, 2017 by Mr. WEO

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This is a patient with gross neurological disease at the time his blood test was positive.  The blood test hardly added anything to the correlation between his obvious clinical disease and his autopsy finding.

 

Any blood test would have to be much more specific for neurologic disease itself.  This would take far more than the "within 5 years" that the CTE doctor is telling everyone.  Because near disease in football players is still rare, it would take  a many years long study which starts recording blood levels of specific markers in otherwise healthy football players and then seeing of there is a threshold level of "abnormal levels" which correlates with actual disease.  When a player approached those levels, he may decide to call it quits.

 

But because the numbers of affected players are so small, it would take years to accrue enough participants to power such a conclusion to statistical significance.  They are now where near that now--in fact they aren't even talking about it this ay.  They are simply saying "hey, we have a marker for CTE".

But CTE is a brain disease itself, isn't it? It's progressive and the symptoms can be as severe as Alzheimers or other neurological disorders.

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

But CTE is a brain disease itself, isn't it? It's progressive and the symptoms can be as severe as Alzheimers or other neurological disorders.

 

 

It's a pathologic finding.   

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's a pathologic finding.   

A pathologic finding that's almost assuredly in thousands of asymptomatic patients who will live on to be asymptomatic.  

 

So, it's kind of a big nothing burger.

 

We know tons about AD and its protein buildup and pathologic process and its still clinically diagnosed because the symptoms are what matters.

[Mr. WEO]

13 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

A pathologic finding that's almost assuredly in thousands of asymptomatic patients who will live on to be asymptomatic.  

 

So, it's kind of a big nothing burger.

 

We know tons about AD and its protein buildup and pathologic process and its still clinically diagnosed because the symptoms are what matters.

 

We don't know yet.  I think talk of a blood test "that will tell you if you have CTE" isn't helpful at this point in the knowledge spectrum of sport related neuro disease.

[GoBills808]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

It's a pathologic finding.   

I think you're wrong. CTE is an actual brain disease.

[BringBackOrton]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

We don't know yet.  I think talk of a blood test "that will tell you if you have CTE" isn't helpful at this point in the knowledge spectrum of sport related neuro disease.

I agree.

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think you're wrong. CTE is an actual brain disease.

Well kinda; it's not as black and white as you make it seem.  

Edited November 17, 2017 by jmc12290

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think you're wrong. CTE is an actual brain disease.

 

 

Well... it can't be definitively diagnosed until the patient is dead, upon autopsy (pathology).

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Well... it can't be definitively diagnosed until the patient is dead, upon autopsy (pathology).

The comparison to AD is truly apt.

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

The comparison to AD is truly apt.

 

 

Actually, the interesting point is that AD and CTE related neurologic disorders have many of the same symptoms, with AD being the more common disease (6% of all adults over 65).

 

Very few AD patients have any history of head injury.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Actually, the interesting point is that AD and CTE related neurologic disorders have many of the same symptoms, with AD being the more common disease (6% of all adults over 65).

 

Very few AD patients have any history of head injury.

And both tauopathy's.  

 

When it comes to managing them, there's not much we can do for either.  

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

And both tauopathy's.  

 

When it comes to managing them, there's not much we can do for either.  

 

 

I agree.  But BU seems to have cornered the CTE market.  And while it is valid to provide as much info to players and to parents of potential players as it becomes available and verified, their agenda seems to be other than that.  Their problem is that they are dealing with a disease that so few of the at risk players seems to be afflicted with.  It has bordered on hysteria.

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I agree.  But BU seems to have cornered the CTE market.  And while it is valid to provide as much info to players and to parents of potential players as it becomes available and verified, their agenda seems to be other than that.  Their problem is that they are dealing with a disease that so few of the at risk players seems to be afflicted with.  It has bordered on hysteria.

Yep.  I don't have the numbers, but I'm almost positive there are many many more NFLers suffering from chronic neck and back pain issues and probably have been for the last 50 years.  Yet CTE in the last 5-10 years has gotten all the press.

 

The public opinion isn't a scientific body, if you needed more proof.

[boyst]

WEO is destroying in this thread.

 

Great job @Mr. WEO

 

CTE is inconclusive and thus far nothing more than a ponzi scheme.  sorry if i don't buy it.  

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Mr. WEO]

8 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

WEO is destroying in this thread.

 

Great job @Mr. WEO

 

CTE is inconclusive and thus far nothing more than a ponzi scheme.  sorry if i don't buy it.  

 

Huh?

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Chao is reading TBD....

 

Unfortunately, this guy's a quack.  They tried to take his license for, among other things, gross negligence in prescribing Ambient to....a suicidal Junior Seau.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Mr. WEO

[boyst]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Huh?

 

 

 

 

Dr. Chao is reading TBD....

 

Unfortunately, this guy's a quack.  They tried to take his license for, among other things, gross negligence in prescribing Ambient to....a suicidal Junior Seau.

you're making a great argument why this headline from the copypaste is nothing worthwhile of a headline and arguing successfully against those who feel this is important.

 

you're killing it.

 

CTE is real but very new and it is a lot of drama and money racket

[dulles]

3 hours ago, BuffalothruMyVeins said:

It's interesting that this is now possible, but (forgive my ignorance) doesn't this not really do anything except confirm a suspicion? There is no cure, or really treatment, for this, so maybe it would just keep the doctors from chasing after other diseases effecting the patient and at least put a name on what's ailing the patient, but still not fix it, right?

Getting a diagnosis prior to death is an initial step toward understanding causation, which is the holy grail for treatment.  

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Huh?

 

 

 

 

Dr. Chao is reading TBD....

 

Unfortunately, this guy's a quack.  They tried to take his license for, among other things, gross negligence in prescribing Ambient to....a suicidal Junior Seau.

He may be a quack but he's right on with this article.  

 

First off, let's be clear there is no blood test.  BU's Dr. Ann Mckee found CCL11 markers in sampled CSF from deceased subjects.  It more confirms that there is a uniqueness to CTE as compared to alzheimer's and control patients.  

 

The Chicago imaging study has its flaws.  They imaged tau, which is hardly a unique brain protein.  They admit at the end of the paper the scans don't correlate well with the severity of the disease, and several of the authors own the rights to the imaging agent and belong to a for-profit company involving the agent.

 

Both are useful studies but there is a long way to go.

[Worstcaseontario]

Soft parents, no pain no gain.