Peterman Arm Strength

[ajmac]

I will quote one of the best ever QB's on this subject...Joe Montana..."I don't throw darts at balloons, I throw balloons at darts!"

 

even when the elbow was gone, he could still make the throws necessary to move the team down the field. Power is great and all, but accuracy and ball placement is key to the west coast offense. This is not the run and gun, not the K-Gun, nor a vertical passing attack offense. Short to mid-range, accurate throws to players with the ability to make yards after that catch. Come on guys, we have watched Brady kill us like this for years. Let's at least give the man a chance before we make quick decisions on what is or what isn't key for him to be a success.

 

ok, I'm done now. Thanks for playing...

[Buffalo716]

18 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Maybe you should get in touch with Isaac Newton and let him know that his laws of physics are wrong.  

 

Can you explain why arm strength and ball velocity are different QB traits?

 

when a scout talks about the former it doesn't mean the latter

Edited November 16, 2017 by Buffalo716

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

41 minutes ago, Figster said:

true that

 

...some skinny, non-cannon arm from Notre Dame didn't do too bad either....and Jeff "Cannon Arm" George did exactly what?...................

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

 

A step back from throwing 15 touchdowns and zero picks in the end zone!? Wow that's going out on a limb. Just take the Carson Wentz thing as an L.

 

 

You were out infront of the Peterman thing after the draft, he plays like you think he may you can easily redeem yourself. Regurgitating bad Went and Goff takes is just YIKES territory.

 

Kind advice from a guy who LIKED Mike Glennon. Cheers.

 

If Wentz keeps it up next season I will. I still see so many flaws on the tape. I get it, they’re winning and he’s doing enough to make it happen. I’d like to see him face some real adversity because that’s where the elite QBs make their case. Put him on an average team and I don’t think he elevates them at all. I don’t know why anyone would feel comfortable with him as the starter in a game where his team is losing since he has exactly 1 game winning drive and 1 4th quarter comeback this year, both in the same game thanks to a 61 yard field goal.

 

So I’ll stick to what I’ve said about Wentz which is that he’s a starting level QB good enough to win with a good run game, defense, and kicker. That’s still better than he was last year so he has improved and I’ll take the L on that.

[BringBackOrton]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If Wentz keeps it up next season I will. I still see so many flaws on the tape. I get it, they’re winning and he’s doing enough to make it happen. I’d like to see him face some real adversity because that’s where the elite QBs make their case. Put him on an average team and I don’t think he elevates them at all. I don’t know why anyone would feel comfortable with him as the starter in a game where his team is losing since he has exactly 1 game winning drive and 1 4th quarter comeback this year, both in the same game thanks to a 61 yard field goal.

 

So I’ll stick to what I’ve said about Wentz which is that he’s a starting level QB good enough to win with a good run game, defense, and kicker. That’s still better than he was last year so he has improved and I’ll take the L on that.

Hard to lead GWD's and comebacks when you go 8-1 and are blowing teams out.

 

Is a comeback win better than beating a team by 20 because you're throwing all over them?

Edited November 16, 2017 by jmc12290

[Mat68]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Interesting comments.  Thanks.  Particularly interesting that Peterman's number was corrected to 53.   No one gave a link, but I'll take it. 

 

To say arm strength doesn't matter is just nonsense.   It absolutely matters.   It matters on deep balls, because the guys with weaker arms have to use their bodies more to get the ball there on time, and more body motion generally affects accuracy negatively.   It also matters on the shorter line drive throws for the same reason.  

 

Pennington would have been an NFL star if he had arm strength.  He was dealy accurate, and he was smart, but defenses knew he wasn't going to hurt them deep, and limited his effectiveness.  

 

Interesting comments from several of you about guys improving their arm strengthj with, I suppose, coaching, training and practice. 

 

Finally, ball velocity IS what it's all about.   The higher the initial velocity, the faster the ball gets there and the longer it will go.   It's basic physics.    If I throw it 10% faster than you, the ball is going to go 10% farther; if we're throwing the same distance, mine will get there 10% faster.  

He was fringe elite than he messed up his shoulder twice and thats it..  Its been awhile but Joe Montana has a quote about playing qb in the NFL.  Its not throwing darts at ballons. It is throwing ballons at darts.  Release and anticipation are more important.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

He was fringe elite than he messed up his shoulder twice and thats it..  Its been awhile but Joe Montana has a quote about playing qb in the NFL.  Its not throwing darts at ballons. It is throwing ballons at darts.  Release and anticipation are more important.

 

....as does Steve Young...."the reason why more collegiate QB's fail versus succeed at the NFL level is because of the speed and complexity of the game".....BTW, went out to ND for the Pitt vs ND game in 1976 and sadly Joe was on IR.......stayed at the Morris Inn and was having Bloody Mary's while meeting the CBS announce crew of Don Criqui....instead of watching Joe, got to see Leach as Dorsett went 61 yds off tackle for the opening play and Pitt thumped them 31-10....oh well..........

Edited November 16, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BarleyNY]

The info I’ve seen is that Peterman clocked a 53.  55 is considered the preferred minimum.  Fun fact: Tyrod clocked a 50.  

[GETTOTHE50]

If he can be anything like chad pennington w/o the injuries, we will be fine. 

 

and chad pennington had a terribly weak arm. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by GETTOTHE50

[Big Turk]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

The info I’ve seen is that Peterman clocked a 53.  55 is considered the preferred minimum.  Fun fact: Tyrod clocked a 50.  

 

The problem with this is it is fairly easy to improve with proper weight training(which isnt done very much in college for QBs) and learning how to use your lower body to torque your hips to generate velocity. 

 

The assumption being made is that there is no way to improve this when they enter the NFL but this simply isn't the case...they can and do improve this area of their game. Peterman likely has added 2-3 mph from the combine due to weight training and QB coaching to torque his hips.

Edited November 16, 2017 by matter2003

[Foxx]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

This is nonsense.   There are no star QBs who don't have strong arms.   

 

Why do you think people describe good QBs as guys who "can make all the throws"?   What do you think it means?   It means he can throw short, throw deep, throw on a line, throw with touch, complete the 15-yard sideline pattern without hanging the ball in the air for the corner to pluck it.   You can't "make all the throws" if you don't have a strong arm.  

no that was not nonsense. the reply to it was nonsense.

 

2 hours ago, co_springs_billsfan said:

I agree 100%. Take a cannon arm without the cerebral traits and you get a bust in Jamarcus Russell.  On the other hand Fitzpatrick had made a decent journeyman career out of his brain talent but not much arm talent.  Then you have guys like Rodgers who are the complete package. 

 

Arm strength isn't everything, but it's a complementing factor to make an elite quarterback.  Arm strength is useless without the brain stuff (if you consider making millions of dollars and being a crappy quarterback "useless"). Odds are more against Peterman becoming elite due to his arm strength (which is why he fell in the draft), but his ceiling is much higher than many give him credit for (long term backup?).  I guess we'll just have to wait and see.  Get your popcorn ready for this Sunday!!

let's also add that one can increase their arm strength. Peterman has all the traits necessary to succeed.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Foxx

[Steptide]

Losman had a "strong" arm according to experts. How'd that work out? Yes he has some beautiful deep throws, but he needed much more than that to be successful 

[ctk232]

4 hours ago, Steptide said:

This is just my opinion, but to me arm strength is the absolute dumbest argument to be made against a qb. 

 

For one, even the strongest qbs in the NFL over throw or under throw recievers at times. Does t matter who the qb is, they've done it. 

 

Two, unless a qb is trying to throw it 75 yards, this argument is void. Fitzpatrick was known to have a weak arm, but could still throw it 50 yards if necessary (I seem to remember Stevie Johnson making a crucial drop on a 50 yard bomb) 

 

Lastly, I don't know if I ever seen a qb in the NFL that couldn't throw the ball 20 yards or less. Which is the average pass by a qb. Not every throw made by a qb is a deep shot, home run throw. 

 

Just my opinion, but the whole arm strength argument is so over blown

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

arm velocity is all about threading the needle at 8-20 yards in contested windows 

Arm strength could very well be an overrated trait (again point to Philip Rivers and late-career peyton especially). But the point of this is arm velocity and exactly what Buffalo716 says here.

 

Now having arm velocity and accuracy translates to more viable offensive plays in the book, WRs being "open" more frequently, improving 3rd and long conversion percentages, etc. - it may not be the most valuable trait in a QB but that's the difference between getting a TD on 3rd down in the red zone and settling for a field goal enough times for it to matter.

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by ctk232

[Augie]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Yes shaw, TT has improved his arm strength and velocity over the years to where it is above average 

 

Tom Brady went from having a noodle arm to having a big time gun where he can sling it over 60MPH...

 

you can improve it and it does happen...

 

While Petermans arm was average to slightly below average for NFL standards he can and most likely already has gotten it stronger since last January 

 

The test will be if he can build up his arm strength while not getting shoulder fatigue 

 

AND

 

there is a key difference between arm strength and arm velocity 

 

arm strength is the ability to make that 65 yard throw in the air

 

arm velocity is all about threading the needle at 8-20 yards in contested windows 

 

Was that after a visit to a certain Canadian doctor?  

 

Naw, that would be cheating....

[GoBills808]

11 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...my my the "know it all" has pontificated relegating us ignorants to genuflect status...rarified air on that high horse....get lost......a real waste...............

OP highly, and I mean HIGHLY, overrates his football knowledge. Don't take it to heart. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

OP highly, and I mean HIGHLY, overrates his football knowledge. Don't take it to heart. 

 

 

...I won't ...it was a gas bubble, painful but gas..................

[Foxx]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

OP highly, and I mean HIGHLY, overrates his football knowledge. Don't take it to heart. 

but, but..... his passer rating is great, that is how you know he is a great quarterback. what? that's nonsense you don't know how to look at the all-22, only coaches know what they are seeing, you don't know that those receivers were open.  it doesn't matter that opposing defenses stack the box with 8/9 guys, he makes the run game better because the defenses have to account for him. what do you mean he doesn't take chances, he doesn't throw interceptions.

 

yada, yada, freaking yada. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Foxx

[Kelly the Dog]

Arm strength is extremely important in the NFL and you cannot be a good consistent quarterback without it. It's not measured by the mph at the combine. A lot of it bleeds into how you release the ball, the spin you put on it/tight spiral and the consistency you can throw it that way. Peterman has yet to throw a pass that proves he has "good" arm strength. That 20 yarder to Benjamin did not. 

 

He has a LOT going for him. He will be able to hit some passes Sunday. He will get the ball out quick and he is already more accurate than Tyrod. What will be his success or downfall is the deep out and the 25-30 yard pass. If he cannot throw that pass with sufficient oomph he doesn't have a chance to be good enough. And if he cannot get the vast majority of his passes to come out clean with a tight spiral to make up for his slightly less than good arm strength completions he made in college will be incompletions or interceptions in the NFL. If they are out patterns they can be pick sixes.

 

Some guys improve their arm strength as they get older. Brady did. Others have. It's not the norm. 

 

He doesn't have a strong arm. He does possess a bunch of high level NFL QB traits. Right now he's somewhere between Kirk Cousins and Kellen Moore. If he's closer to Moore he will fail. If he is closer to Cousins, that's likely his ceiling. 

 

Im excited to see what he can do. 

[HappyDays]

12 minutes ago, Foxx said:

but, but..... his passer rating is great, that is how you know he is a great quarterback. what? that's nonsense you don't know how to look at the all-22, only coaches know what they are seeing, you don't know that those receivers were open.  it doesn't matter that opposing defenses stack the box with 8/9 guys, he makes the run game better because the defenses have to account for him. what do you mean he doesn't take chances, he doesn't throw interceptions.

 

yada, yada, freaking yada. 

 

Passer rating is as useful as its ever been. Tyrod’s 3 worst games of the season - Carolina, Cincinnati, and New Orleans - were his 3 worst passer ratings of the season. Against New Orleans he was a disgusting 33.6. Last year Tyrod was ranked 18th in passer rating. It’s never inflated how well he has performed.

[Foxx]

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Passer rating is as useful as its ever been. Tyrod’s 3 worst games of the season - Carolina, Cincinnati, and New Orleans - were his 3 worst passer ratings of the season. Against New Orleans he was a disgusting 33.6. Last year Tyrod was ranked 18th in passer rating. It’s never inflated how well he has performed.

sorry but i don't buy that. there are things the passer rating does not account for and can never account for. plays left on the table being one. yes, i will agree it is a useful tool when trying to evaluate  qb play but it is not the end all be all. there is no stat that can take into account all the many intricacies of the position. that is one reason why the eye test is so important. why do you think they send scouts to games, because they trust the scouts eye to tell them things stats can't.

 

Shaw is not the analyst he thinks he is. besides that hes just downright arrogant.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Foxx