Peterman Arm Strength

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I would assume that ANY NFL QB could "make all the throws" in terms of physically getting the ball there. It's just a matter of how effective/accurate they are.

 

A lot of guys with beer guys who set themselves on fire and chokeslam their girlfriends through tables at tailgate parties can throw a ball 40-50 yards. Doesn't mean it will be accurate or timely though.

Then I guess arm strength doesn't matter.   

 

Thanks for the insight.  

[Koufax]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

My bigger concern is the random inaccuracy.   

 

That was a Fitz problem.........and I think Fitz improved some by the time he got to the Jets but he still would make some terrible, dangerously inaccurate throws.

 

 

Do you think it was dangerously inaccurate throws where the throw was the correct decision at the time he threw it?  Or bad decisions by a gunslinger without an accurate gun?

 

My top two QB attributes are decision making and accuracy (Brees, Brady, Montana, Manning).  Everything else is tied for seventh.

 

My cautiously optimistic about Peterman on both of these things, and thought his completion percentage on balls that were thrown 15+ yards stat was a potentially interesting and useful one (he was highest in power five conference for that).

 

I think Tyrod's accuracy looked a little better than it actually was because of his "I'm not a gunslinger" mentality where he wouldn't attempt the medium range tight window throws.  Check downs to wide open, scramble, or the only my receiver can catch it bombs.  His legs were undoubtedly a good tool, but most of his value was his running threat, and short passes to open receivers without turning the ball over.  I think that is a tough combo to build a winner around, and while I have enjoyed our five wins this year, none of his nine starts has lead me to believe he is something different from when I thought we should replace him with Watson at #10.

 

If Peterman can show decision making and accuracy, he can be successful, and more successful than Tyrod.  If he can't, we have a clearer sense of what we have, and who should be the interim QB if we draft our future QB without him being ready to play.

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

My opinion on Goff hasn’t changed at all. He’s the beneficiary of a great offensive system and great offensive talent. He still makes poor decisions and if he came to Buffalo he wouldn’t be any good. Wentz has been better this year, no question. My opinion on him has gone up a little and it’s my own fault for not recognizing he had bad talent around him last year. It’s laughable that he is in the MVP conversation. He’s as likely to become the next Blake Bortles as he is to become the next Ben Roethlisberger. 

 

Would you feel good with either of those QBs down 7 points with 3 minutes on the clock? I wouldn’t. They haven’t shown they can win games where everything else isn’t going right. Any starting-level QB in a scheme designed for them can win games where their defense and run game are clicking. I wanted Tyrod benched for Peterman because he doesn’t fit this system at all. Next year he’ll go somewhere willing to design an offense around him and a lot of people here will be surprised with how successful he will be. That’s my prediction. Wentz will take a step back next year. That’s my other prediction.

I would absolutely be comfortable with Wentz or Goff in that situation. 

[Big Gun]

43 minutes ago, Figster said:

Peyton won his last Championship with what many would call a noodle arm,

 

I'm just saying...

He won with his brain. I don't ever recall Peyton having a cannon for an arm, it wasn't a noodle arm but not a cannon either.

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by PeterGriffin

[Figster]

1 minute ago, PeterGriffin said:

He won with his brain. I don't ever recall Peyton having a cannon for an arm, it wasn't a noodle arm but not a cannon either.

 

true that

[BringBackOrton]

27 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

My opinion on Goff hasn’t changed at all. He’s the beneficiary of a great offensive system and great offensive talent. He still makes poor decisions and if he came to Buffalo he wouldn’t be any good. Wentz has been better this year, no question. My opinion on him has gone up a little and it’s my own fault for not recognizing he had bad talent around him last year. It’s laughable that he is in the MVP conversation. He’s as likely to become the next Blake Bortles as he is to become the next Ben Roethlisberger. 

 

Would you feel good with either of those QBs down 7 points with 3 minutes on the clock? I wouldn’t. They haven’t shown they can win games where everything else isn’t going right. Any starting-level QB in a scheme designed for them can win games where their defense and run game are clicking. I wanted Tyrod benched for Peterman because he doesn’t fit this system at all. Next year he’ll go somewhere willing to design an offense around him and a lot of people here will be surprised with how successful he will be. That’s my prediction. Wentz will take a step back next year. That’s my other prediction.

I would love to have the QB who is the best at scoring TD's when down a TD.  Makes perfect sense.

Edited November 16, 2017 by jmc12290

[CanadianFan]

Why am I not surprised this is here.Well, let's just keep this thread live until he's no longer playing in the NFL ok? Otherwise we're going to have the same frickin arguments over and over again.

[NewEra]

He looks to have enough zip to me.  Eye test strictly. No radar gun.  I love what I see when he slings it.  Really liked his press conference as well.  I said the same thing about Trent Edwards.   Let’s hope it’s different this time.  

 

I was at the game in Arizona when Adrian Wilson killed Trent.  Going to this game on Sunday.  Future hall of fame QB Sweet Nate Pete making his first start.  Hope he makes it memorable in a good way. 

[Jobot]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Yes shaw, TT has improved his arm strength and velocity over the years to where it is above average 

 

Tom Brady went from having a noodle arm to having a big time gun where he can sling it over 60MPH...

 

you can improve it and it does happen...

 

While Petermans arm was average to slightly below average for NFL standards he can and most likely already has gotten it stronger since last January 

 

The test will be if he can build up his arm strength while not getting shoulder fatigue 

 

AND

 

there is a key difference between arm strength and arm velocity 

 

arm strength is the ability to make that 65 yard throw in the air

 

arm velocity is all about threading the needle at 8-20 yards in contested windows 

 

You're saying the same thing thing... It's simple physics.

 

Arm 1 - 35 yard throw, requires minimum ball height at appex = 20 feet

Arm 2 - 35 yard throw, requires minimum ball height at appex = 15 feet

 

Arm 2 is stronger and will have a larger max distance on their throw.

My question is.... How often do NFL qb's try to throw at their top end velocity?  Someone posted that arm fatigue was the major concern.... which I would imagine is easier to train for than adding throwing velocity.

[Tierlifer]

3 hours ago, Steptide said:

This is just my opinion, but to me arm strength is the absolute dumbest argument to be made against a qb. 

 

For one, even the strongest qbs in the NFL over throw or under throw recievers at times. Does t matter who the qb is, they've done it. 

 

Two, unless a qb is trying to throw it 75 yards, this argument is void. Fitzpatrick was known to have a weak arm, but could still throw it 50 yards if necessary (I seem to remember Stevie Johnson making a crucial drop on a 50 yard bomb) 

 

Lastly, I don't know if I ever seen a qb in the NFL that couldn't throw the ball 20 yards or less. Which is the average pass by a qb. Not every throw made by a qb is a deep shot, home run throw. 

 

Just my opinion, but the whole arm strength argument is so over blown

I agree. Just because Noah Syndegaard can throw the ball 100 mph does not mean or equate to sustained success. It's location, location, location. 

[Big Turk]

Gabriel says velocity is a meaningless stat since there isnt enough data yet and that Nobody he has talked to as a coach or GM believes it has much value currently.

Also mentions that arm strength can be increased in the NFL because college QBs sont work out much and various exercises can help quite a bit.

 

Not to mention that  properly torquing your hips while you throw will generate far more velocity than anything you could do with your upper body.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.profootballweekly.com/articles/2017/03/13/e1f6986ddbd243fea880824dfab1d24c/

Edited November 16, 2017 by matter2003

[HumbleAndHungry]

3 hours ago, CuddyDark said:

I believe Peterman was revised to 53 mph.

 Drew Brees threw 52 mph.  anticipation and location is way more important than ball velocity

[Shaw66]

23 minutes ago, Koufax said:

 

Do you think it was dangerously inaccurate throws where the throw was the correct decision at the time he threw it?  Or bad decisions by a gunslinger without an accurate gun?

 

 

I think Fitz had both problems.   Sometimes he was a wreckless thrower.   To his credit, he did that only late in the game when the Bills needed  a score, but it's still better to take the incompletion than to throw the INT trying to make something happen.   The incompletion gives you another shot. 

 

Sometimes his INTS were that his arm couldn't deliver what his eyes saw.  He could see the opening, and he knew that a good throw would get there, but he didn't have the arm strength to make the throw.  

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, Jobot said:

 

You're saying the same thing thing... It's simple physics.

 

Arm 1 - 35 yard throw, requires minimum ball height at appex = 20 feet

Arm 2 - 35 yard throw, requires minimum ball height at appex = 15 feet

 

Arm 2 is stronger and will have a larger max distance on their throw.

My question is.... How often do NFL qb's try to throw at their top end velocity?  Someone posted that arm fatigue was the major concern.... which I would imagine is easier to train for than adding throwing velocity.

 

In the post you quoted from me I talk about increasing strength without shoulder fatigue 

 

but to your bolded point. A QB can have bad arm strength but good arm velocity 

 

Fitzpatrick is an example of somebody with average or slightly less than average arm strength but good arm velocity 

 

He ball dies out on the 65 yard bomb because his arm strength 

 

but his ball velocity is good at 10-20 yards. 

 

It just doesn't carry

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

In the post you quoted from me I talk about increasing strength without shoulder fatigue 

 

but to your bolded point. A QB can have bad arm strength but good arm velocity 

 

Fitzpatrick is an example of somebody with average or slightly less than average arm strength but good arm velocity 

 

He ball dies out on the 65 yard bomb because his arm strength 

 

but his ball velocity is good at 10-20 yards. 

 

It just doesn't carry

Maybe you should get in touch with Isaac Newton and let him know that his laws of physics are wrong.  

[CommonCents]

42 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

My opinion on Goff hasn’t changed at all. He’s the beneficiary of a great offensive system and great offensive talent. He still makes poor decisions and if he came to Buffalo he wouldn’t be any good. Wentz has been better this year, no question. My opinion on him has gone up a little and it’s my own fault for not recognizing he had bad talent around him last year. It’s laughable that he is in the MVP conversation. He’s as likely to become the next Blake Bortles as he is to become the next Ben Roethlisberger. 

 

Would you feel good with either of those QBs down 7 points with 3 minutes on the clock? I wouldn’t. They haven’t shown they can win games where everything else isn’t going right. Any starting-level QB in a scheme designed for them can win games where their defense and run game are clicking. I wanted Tyrod benched for Peterman because he doesn’t fit this system at all. Next year he’ll go somewhere willing to design an offense around him and a lot of people here will be surprised with how successful he will be. That’s my prediction. Wentz will take a step back next year. That’s my other prediction.

 

A step back from throwing 15 touchdowns and zero picks in the end zone!? Wow that's going out on a limb. Just take the Carson Wentz thing as an L.

 

 

You were out infront of the Peterman thing after the draft, he plays like you think he may you can easily redeem yourself. Regurgitating bad Went and Goff takes is just YIKES territory.

 

Kind advice from a guy who LIKED Mike Glennon. Cheers.

[Shaw66]

10 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Gabriel says velocity is a meaningless stat since there isnt enough data yet and that Nobody he has talked to as a coach or GM believes it has much value currently.

Also mentions that arm strength can be increased in the NFL because college QBs sont work out much and various exercises can help quite a bit.

 

Not to mention that  properly torquing your hips while you throw will generate far more velocity than anything you could do with your upper body.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.profootballweekly.com/articles/2017/03/13/e1f6986ddbd243fea880824dfab1d24c/

Hips and shoulders.   You're correct - it isn't so much about making arm muscles stronger - it's hips and midsection.  And technique.   That's why guys can improve their velocity.  

[CommonCents]

Just now, Commonsense said:

 

A step back from throwing 15 touchdowns and zero picks in the red zone!? Wow that's going out on a limb. Just take the Carson Wentz thing as an L.

 

 

You were out infront of the Peterman thing after the draft, he plays like you think he may you can easily redeem yourself. Regurgitating bad Went and Goff takes is just YIKES territory.

 

Kind advice from a guy who LIKED Mike Glennon. Cheers.

 

[TheFunPolice]

33 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Then I guess arm strength doesn't matter.   

 

Thanks for the insight.  

 

I guess reading comprehension doesn't matter either, given your response. Thank YOU for the insight!

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but Marino had the quickest release, and was the best football thrower I've ever seen.  Montana has the rings.