Peterman Arm Strength

[kota]

Go to BB.com and look at the practice video after Peterman was announced as starter.  Tyrod and him are doing drills.  They were throwing outs to WR's.  The ball basically got there at the same time.  So if you were happy with Tyrod's Arm Strength you should be happy with Peterman's.  

Besides he looks bigger than he did earlier this year.  I am sure he throws it much faster now.  

 

Nothing to worry about.

[GoBills808]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

People say drafting QBs is a crap shoot but that isn’t exactly right. Look at Deshone Kizer’s scouting report:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/deshone-kizer?id=2557983

 

Strengths:

 

 

 

 

Weaknesses:

 

 

 

 

That reads like a mix of the worst traits of EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor. I don’t need to watch a second of film to know that is not a good QB prospect. But teams see that report next to Peterman’s and think “oh we can fix this guy’s inaccuracy and poor decision making no problem! But fix this other guy’s arm strength? Not possible.” It’s nuts.

I actually think Kizer is going to be a good QB eventually. 

[Figster]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But we agree that has to do with throw placement and adjusting the timing for the WR, not just with the velocity of the throw, right?

I'll agree with you

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Eastcoastlegacy said:

 I think many have made the point that arm strength among pros is much less important as an absolute factor than a QB's ability to properly time his throws, based on his ability.  

This is nonsense.   There are no star QBs who don't have strong arms.   

 

Why do you think people describe good QBs as guys who "can make all the throws"?   What do you think it means?   It means he can throw short, throw deep, throw on a line, throw with touch, complete the 15-yard sideline pattern without hanging the ball in the air for the corner to pluck it.   You can't "make all the throws" if you don't have a strong arm.  

[BadLandsMeanie]

56 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You may be right about short balls over the middle, but I don't think you're right about 10 yard out patterns.   They throw those with as much velocity as possible. 

 

As for the arc of the ball, you're actually wrong about that.   Wind resistance slows down all ball proportionately, so, the ball that is 10% faster coming out is slower, but still 10% faster than the ball that was slow coming out.   In fact, it's worse that.  The guy with the best velocity can throw with the lowest arc, so the ball is in the air for a shorter period of time, which means it's LESS affected by wind resistance than the ball that has a lot of arc.   

I can't be wrong about that because I think I said I didn't know! But I'm glad you did the analysis now I know!

 

One thing I thought of but make no specific claims about so you can't pin a mistake on me, is how fast those defensive backs move. I worked it out one time and they can move a surprising distance in 2 tenths of a second if they have  head of steam up. 

 

 

[Figster]

1 minute ago, kota said:

Go to BB.com and look at the practice video after Peterman was announced as starter.  Tyrod and him are doing drills.  They were throwing outs to WR's.  The ball basically got there at the same time.  So if you were happy with Tyrod's Arm Strength you should be happy with Peterman's.  

Besides he looks bigger than he did earlier this year.  I am sure he throws it much faster now.  

 

Nothing to worry about.

post deserved some love

[rant_and_go_returns]

2 hours ago, Steptide said:

This is just my opinion, but to me arm strength is the absolute dumbest argument to be made against a qb. 

 

For one, even the strongest qbs in the NFL over throw or under throw recievers at times. Does t matter who the qb is, they've done it. 

 

Two, unless a qb is trying to throw it 75 yards, this argument is void. Fitzpatrick was known to have a weak arm, but could still throw it 50 yards if necessary (I seem to remember Stevie Johnson making a crucial drop on a 50 yard bomb) 

 

Lastly, I don't know if I ever seen a qb in the NFL that couldn't throw the ball 20 yards or less. Which is the average pass by a qb. Not every throw made by a qb is a deep shot, home run throw. 

 

Just my opinion, but the whole arm strength argument is so over blown

It's not just range, but velocity. Ball needs to get out of the air quick to beat the defender.

 

A lot of routes are horizontal,  so add at least 10 yards to every throw.

They'll be figured out eventually. Make up for it by running or getting big in the offseason.

[Shaw66]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But we agree that has to do with throw placement and adjusting the timing for the WR, not just with the velocity of the throw, right?

But don't you see that "adjusting the timing" means you have to throw earlier than the guy who throws with greater velocity?   If you hae to throw earlier you have to decide earlier, and deciding earlier means you're going to make the wrong decision sometimes, because you couldn't wait the extra split second.   

[co_springs_billsfan]

40 minutes ago, Foxx said:

there are many intangibles that come into play here, arm strength is only one part of the equation. there is also the window that he is throwing into. how far away are the defenders on the window? are the defenders even looking into the backfield when the throw is being made. is it a back shoulder throw. is he throwing to a spot. 

 

many many factors in the equation at hand. arm strength is one. the six inch space between the ears being the most important.

I agree 100%. Take a cannon arm without the cerebral traits and you get a bust in Jamarcus Russell.  On the other hand Fitzpatrick had made a decent journeyman career out of his brain talent but not much arm talent.  Then you have guys like Rodgers who are the complete package. 

 

Arm strength isn't everything, but it's a complementing factor to make an elite quarterback.  Arm strength is useless without the brain stuff (if you consider making millions of dollars and being a crappy quarterback "useless"). Odds are more against Peterman becoming elite due to his arm strength (which is why he fell in the draft), but his ceiling is much higher than many give him credit for (long term backup?).  I guess we'll just have to wait and see.  Get your popcorn ready for this Sunday!!

Edited November 16, 2017 by co_springs_billsfan

[Figster]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is nonsense.   There are no star QBs who don't have strong arms.   

 

Why do you think people describe good QBs as guys who "can make all the throws"?   What do you think it means?   It means he can throw short, throw deep, throw on a line, throw with touch, complete the 15-yard sideline pattern without hanging the ball in the air for the corner to pluck it.   You can't "make all the throws" if you don't have a strong arm.  

Peyton won his last Championship with what many would call a noodle arm,

 

I'm just saying...

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, rant_and_go_returns said:

They'll be figured out eventually. Make up for it by running or getting big in the offseason.

This is the interesting point, I think.  As some others have said, you get to the pros and you're getting some really sophisticated training.   If his arm strength is a problem, his diet, weight lifting and off-season work on his mechanics will all be designed to reduce his deficit.   (Unless he throws 17 interceptions in the next 7 games, in which case they'll tell him to go sit in the corner while they work on the rookie they drafted!)

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I actually think Kizer is going to be a good QB eventually. 

 

You were a big EJ guy, right? So this isn’t surprising. I’m not gonna turn this into the Deshone Kizer thread so I’ll just say I strongly disagree and move on.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Figster said:

Peyton won his last Championship with what many would call a noodle arm,

 

I'm just saying...

Denver would have won that Super Bowl with YOU at quarterback.    Peyton had nothing to do with winning that Super Bowl.   

[Figster]

Just now, Shaw66 said:

Denver would have won that Super Bowl with YOU at quarterback.    Peyton had nothing to do with winning that Super Bowl.   

lol, touche

[GoBills808]

Just now, HappyDays said:

 

You were a big EJ guy, right? So this isn’t surprising. I’m not gonna turn this into the Deshone Kizer thread so I’ll just say I strongly disagree and move on.

I had high hopes for Manuel, yes. I was also high on Wentz, who IIRC you once said you wouldn't trade Taylor for and called a bust last season. I think you said the same about Goff. So safe to say I'm pretty comfortable disagreeing on QBs with you. 

 

 

[dubs]

33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But we agree that has to do with throw placement and adjusting the timing for the WR, not just with the velocity of the throw, right?

 

Oh, I agree with you that it's a multitude of factors.  I was simply pointing out that I think the topic of velocity is more important for the time the ball gets from A to B, not how far someone can throw it.  An earlier poster brought up arm strength as it relates to distance, I don't think that's really what most people mean when they say arm strength.  That's all I was saying.

Edited November 16, 2017 by dubs

[Shaw66]

18 minutes ago, kota said:

Go to BB.com and look at the practice video after Peterman was announced as starter.  Tyrod and him are doing drills.  They were throwing outs to WR's.  The ball basically got there at the same time.  So if you were happy with Tyrod's Arm Strength you should be happy with Peterman's.  

Besides he looks bigger than he did earlier this year.  I am sure he throws it much faster now.  

 

Nothing to worry about.

Post deserves some love, indeed.   It made me laugh.  Scratch my head first, then laugh.  

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Peterman has a lot going for him.  I think his number 1 attribute may be his intelligence and decision making.   The Wonderlic test presumably measures quick and accurate thinking.   Peterman had a 32 on the Wonderlic, not lights out, but among the best of the QBs coming out of the last draft, and pretty good overall.   Taylor had an apparently had a 15, and the biggest complaint about Taylor is decision making and a slow trigger.   We'll see about that.

 

The biggest complaint about Peterman, and something certainly worth worrying about, is arm strength.   I didn't know it, but at the combine they use a radar gun to determine the release velocity of thrown footballs.   Peterman was 49 mph, among the worst at the combine.   The best is in the high 50s, and just about all the name guys coming out of the draft are at or above 55.   So Peterman is 10-15% below where the best prospects are.   Over the years, very few guys are clocked below 50.    In fact, the only familiar name at the bottom of the velocity test is - Tyrod Taylor, clocked at 50.  

 

Now,  Taylor's interesting to me, because arm strength has not been a problem since he came to the Bills.   Did he improve his delivery and increase his delivery velocity in his four seasons at Baltimore?   I don't know, but if he did, that means that Peterman's major weakness could be addressed.   Brady also had a pretty poor deep ball early in his career, and he's improved that a lot.  Maybe there's hope. 

 

You can see all the numbers here.

Some guy name DeShaun was 4mph less than Nate and seemed to have a decent year before getting urt as was on record rookie pace so maybe velocity is not all it is cracked up to be

 

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I had high hopes for Manuel, yes. I was also high on Wentz, who IIRC you once said you wouldn't trade Taylor for and called a bust last season. I think you said the same about Goff. So safe to say I'm pretty comfortable disagreeing on QBs with you. 

 

 

 

My opinion on Goff hasn’t changed at all. He’s the beneficiary of a great offensive system and great offensive talent. He still makes poor decisions and if he came to Buffalo he wouldn’t be any good. Wentz has been better this year, no question. My opinion on him has gone up a little and it’s my own fault for not recognizing he had bad talent around him last year. It’s laughable that he is in the MVP conversation. He’s as likely to become the next Blake Bortles as he is to become the next Ben Roethlisberger. 

 

Would you feel good with either of those QBs down 7 points with 3 minutes on the clock? I wouldn’t. They haven’t shown they can win games where everything else isn’t going right. Any starting-level QB in a scheme designed for them can win games where their defense and run game are clicking. I wanted Tyrod benched for Peterman because he doesn’t fit this system at all. Next year he’ll go somewhere willing to design an offense around him and a lot of people here will be surprised with how successful he will be. That’s my prediction. Wentz will take a step back next year. That’s my other prediction.

[TheFunPolice]

I would assume that ANY NFL QB could "make all the throws" in terms of physically getting the ball there. It's just a matter of how effective/accurate they are.

 

A lot of guys with beer guys who set themselves on fire and chokeslam their girlfriends through tables at tailgate parties can throw a ball 40-50 yards. Doesn't mean it will be accurate or timely though.