LABILLBACKER Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: It is true about Manning. In theory, the timing throws should increase YAC by the WRs. If he can hit them in stride or once they have a step on the DB. TT was often late and they would have to stop to make the catch or the DB right there for the tackle if they did make the catch Exactly and that's what killed TT. He waited till his man was wide open so while the ball was in flight the db could drive on the ball. Giving the wr little or no opportunity at YAC. Sammy was touted out of Clemson as being an amazing YAC player. We never saw that with Tyrod. NP will throw and with anticipation. The ball will be there so our wr's & TE 's better be ready.
SoCal Deek Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 Arm strength will have zero to do with Peterman's success. It will all come down to anticipation and making quick decision making. Both of which have hurt Tyrod's career. Unfortunately he'll have to sharpen both of those skills under live fire. I'm assuming he's waited his entire life for this moment!
Kmart128 Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 59 minutes ago, Charles Romes said: Petermans fatal flaw is not his arm strength. It's panicking under pressure. You do realize that Peterman was the best QB under pressure out of his draft class?
BillsfanAZ Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Peterman has a lot going for him. I think his number 1 attribute may be his intelligence and decision making. The Wonderlic test presumably measures quick and accurate thinking. Peterman had a 32 on the Wonderlic, not lights out, but among the best of the QBs coming out of the last draft, and pretty good overall. Taylor had an apparently had a 15, and the biggest complaint about Taylor is decision making and a slow trigger. We'll see about that. The biggest complaint about Peterman, and something certainly worth worrying about, is arm strength. I didn't know it, but at the combine they use a radar gun to determine the release velocity of thrown footballs. Peterman was 49 mph, among the worst at the combine. The best is in the high 50s, and just about all the name guys coming out of the draft are at or above 55. So Peterman is 10-15% below where the best prospects are. Over the years, very few guys are clocked below 50. In fact, the only familiar name at the bottom of the velocity test is - Tyrod Taylor, clocked at 50. Now, Taylor's interesting to me, because arm strength has not been a problem since he came to the Bills. Did he improve his delivery and increase his delivery velocity in his four seasons at Baltimore? I don't know, but if he did, that means that Peterman's major weakness could be addressed. Brady also had a pretty poor deep ball early in his career, and he's improved that a lot. Maybe there's hope. You can see all the numbers here. If you watch Sports Science on Drew Brees, his velocity was 52 MPH every time on 20 yard passes.
Foxx Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Arm strength will have zero to do with Peterman's success. It will all come down to anticipation and making quick decision making. Both of which have hurt Tyrod's career. Unfortunately he'll have to sharpen both of those skills under live fire. I'm assuming he's waited his entire life for this moment! and he might not have that gaudy passer rating numbers that the OP so dearly loves but it will be all about that six inch space between the ears.
dubs Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm wondering, though, how much ball velocity at release matters in a practical sense. The difference between a velocity of 45, 50, and 55 mph is 22,24.4, or 26.9 yds/s. This means on a 20 yard throw, a differene between 0.74,0.81, and 0.91 seconds from the QB's hand to the WR. I'm going to bet that difference of less than 2/10 of a second is going to be dwarfed by differences in how long it takes a WR to run the route in different field conditions or against different defenders, how long it takes the QB to make a decision, and how long his windup takes. Maybe it matters. Or maybe it doesn't I am not sure if this pertains to NP or not, but I think generally it does matter. Think of all the times that a defender barely misses an INT or a tip because the ball just beats the defender. Also, I would think that the longer it takes, the more the QB is going to need to anticipate and throw early. Just a guess though.
Juice_32 Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I had Peterman as a late 2nd/early 3rd round prospect. I was pleasantly surprised when I checked my phone and saw the Bills had nabbed him at the end of the 5th round. Reading this scouting report I don’t understand how a QB with these traits gets taken so late, while a “big arm, big body” QB like Kizer gets taken in the 2nd. Then again NFL scouts are consistently awful at their jobs so I guess it’s not a surprise but you’d think they would learn from past mistakes. I was shouting for him after the second. It's funny how the project guys almost always have huge arms and teams think they can turn them into an actual QB. How many of them ever work out though? NP has almost every trait other than the big arm. I like that we took a flyer on a kid who actually understands how to play the position at this level. 1
Shaw66 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Posted November 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said: If you watch Sports Science on Drew Brees, his velocity was 52 MPH every time on 20 yard passes. Was that the maximum speed that he was capable of or was that the speed at which he throws 20 yard passes? If that's his maximum speed, then I'll agree that arm speed isn't a problem for Peterman. But I'd guess that Brees dials himself back on 20 yard passes, so he isn't using his full motion. Peterman has to use his full motion to get to 52. Who knows? All we can do is watch the guy play and see how he does. He's not going to fail because of arm strength. But he may be limited by it.
Foxx Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 1 minute ago, dubs said: I am not sure if this pertains to NP or not, but I think generally it does matter. Think of all the times that a defender barely misses an INT or a tip because the ball just beats the defender. Also, I would think that the longer it takes, the more the QB is going to need to anticipate and throw early. Just a guess though. there are many intangibles that come into play here, arm strength is only one part of the equation. there is also the window that he is throwing into. how far away are the defenders on the window? are the defenders even looking into the backfield when the throw is being made. is it a back shoulder throw. is he throwing to a spot. many many factors in the equation at hand. arm strength is one. the six inch space between the ears being the most important.
SoCal Deek Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 I think people are confusing arm strength with a compact throwing motion and a quick release. They are not the same thing. The latter two are far more important than 'arm strength'.
Shaw66 Posted November 16, 2017 Author Posted November 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Juice_32 said: I was shouting for him after the second. It's funny how the project guys almost always have huge arms and teams think they can turn them into an actual QB. How many of them ever work out though? NP has almost every trait other than the big arm. I like that we took a flyer on a kid who actually understands how to play the position at this level. I agree. They'll draft a guy who's dumb as a rock if he has a big arm, but they hem and haw about a guy who shows brains, decision making and leadership because he's too small.
dubs Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 Just now, Foxx said: there are many intangibles that come into play here, arm strength is only one part of the equation. there is also the window that he is throwing into. how far away are the defenders on the window? are the defenders even looking into the backfield when the throw is being made. is it a back shoulder throw. is he throwing to a spot. many many factors in the equation at hand. arm strength is one. the six inch space between the ears being the most important. I agree!!
BobbyC81 Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Interesting comments. Thanks. Particularly interesting that Peterman's number was corrected to 53. No one gave a link, but I'll take it. To say arm strength doesn't matter is just nonsense. It absolutely matters. It matters on deep balls, because the guys with weaker arms have to use their bodies more to get the ball there on time, and more body motion generally affects accuracy negatively. It also matters on the shorter line drive throws for the same reason. Pennington would have been an NFL star if he had arm strength. He was dealy accurate, and he was smart, but defenses knew he wasn't going to hurt them deep, and limited his effectiveness. Interesting comments from several of you about guys improving their arm strengthj with, I suppose, coaching, training and practice. Finally, ball velocity IS what it's all about. The higher the initial velocity, the faster the ball gets there and the longer it will go. It's basic physics. If I throw it 10% faster than you, the ball is going to go 10% farther; if we're throwing the same distance, mine will get there 10% faster. I remember Pennington playing in windy late season games in Buffalo and the wind severely affecting his throws.
SoCal Deek Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, LittleJoeCartwright said: I remember Pennington playing in windy late season games in Buffalo and the wind severely affecting his throws. Well we should be OK then! It's supposed to be a beautiful day in Los Angeles on Sunday. Next!
Bangarang Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 Arm strength is a bit overrated I think. Give me a guy with an average arm that is smart, accurate and knows where to go with the football over a guy with a cannon and athleticism but not much else. i don’t know think Peterman’s arm will be a major issue especially in this offense but that could obviously change.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 24 minutes ago, dubs said: I am not sure if this pertains to NP or not, but I think generally it does matter. Think of all the times that a defender barely misses an INT or a tip because the ball just beats the defender. Also, I would think that the longer it takes, the more the QB is going to need to anticipate and throw early. Just a guess though. But we agree that has to do with throw placement and adjusting the timing for the WR, not just with the velocity of the throw, right? 1
Eastcoastlegacy Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 Not to mention this for anything other than his physical attributes, but when you look at a player like Colin Kaepernick. Someone with seemingly unlimited arm strength (59mph according the the OP's site), every throw under 20 yards was a laser. Sure, maybe he can throw the ball through cement at 50 yards, but how often do you see a play that is ruined by an excessively thrown pass? Or a ball fired through the receivers hands and into the defender's? I think many have made the point that arm strength among pros is much less important as an absolute factor than a QB's ability to properly time his throws, based on his ability. We will see on Sunday.
HappyDays Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Juice_32 said: I was shouting for him after the second. It's funny how the project guys almost always have huge arms and teams think they can turn them into an actual QB. How many of them ever work out though? NP has almost every trait other than the big arm. I like that we took a flyer on a kid who actually understands how to play the position at this level. People say drafting QBs is a crap shoot but that isn’t exactly right. Look at Deshone Kizer’s scouting report: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/deshone-kizer?id=2557983 Strengths: Quote Big quarterback with a big arm. Can make all of the throws. Has step and crank power to drive throws into the seams. Has the arm talent and willingness to challenge safeties on both intermediate and deep throws. Looks the part with thick frame to withstand NFL punishment. Weaknesses: Quote Gets stuck on primary read missing out on early openers around field. May not have eyes or compact release to spot and hit flashing targets. Can be too reliant upon arm strength over mechanics. Wants open throwing window rather than operating with early anticipation. Can improve in leading receivers and throwing stationary targets open. Too hesitant. Showed dreadful lapses in judgement that lead to interceptions. That reads like a mix of the worst traits of EJ Manuel and Tyrod Taylor. I don’t need to watch a second of film to know that is not a good QB prospect. But teams see that report next to Peterman’s and think “oh we can fix this guy’s inaccuracy and poor decision making no problem! But fix this other guy’s arm strength? Not possible.” It’s nuts. Edited November 16, 2017 by HappyDays
Figster Posted November 16, 2017 Posted November 16, 2017 29 minutes ago, dubs said: I am not sure if this pertains to NP or not, but I think generally it does matter. Think of all the times that a defender barely misses an INT or a tip because the ball just beats the defender. Also, I would think that the longer it takes, the more the QB is going to need to anticipate and throw early. Just a guess though. The ability to drop footballs into a WR with touch and pin point accuracy is more important then gunning footballs in on a rope in my humble opinion.
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