TakeYouToTasker Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 Just now, GoBills808 said: Jason Sehorn IIRC. Sehorn was the last white starter at the position, Edleman was the last white player I can remember taking snaps at the position. That was in 2011. So, since then, 32 teams each rostering what I will conservatively call 4 cornerbacks over the course of 6 NFL seasons... not one of them white. That works out to 768 non-white players and zero white players. This must be systemic racism, right?
GoBills808 Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: Sehorn was the last white starter at the position, Edleman was the last white player I can remember taking snaps at the position. That was in 2011. So, since then, 32 teams each rostering what I will conservatively call 4 cornerbacks over the course of 6 NFL seasons... not one of them white. That works out to 768 non-white players and zero white players. This must be systemic racism, right? They're turning McCaffrey into a slot guy in Carolina when he played RB in college...is it racism that automatically makes the comparison to white WRs like Edelman instead of halfbacks like he's played since Stanford? Of course not, it's simply how NFL teams build rosters. They are predominantly conservative and look for examples of what's worked in the past. It may not be the most progressive or even effective way of creating a winning roster, but I do not believe it's racist.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: They're turning McCaffrey into a slot guy in Carolina when he played RB in college...is it racism that automatically makes the comparison to white WRs like Edelman instead of halfbacks like he's played since Stanford? Of course not, it's simply how NFL teams build rosters. They are predominantly conservative and look for examples of what's worked in the past. It may not be the most progressive or even effective way of creating a winning roster, but I do not believe it's racist. I agree with you. My point was to illustrate the absurdity and hypocrisy of the "racism at quarterback" argument.
SoTier Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 47 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said: Speaking about your first paragraph, my first reaction to that line of thinking is being annoyed. My second reaction is that reasoning seems scary to me. Do we really have a large group of people who assume as a given that black athletes are automatically better at everything? And that any area where black athletes do not dominate, is proof of unfairness? That sounds an awful lot like racial superman kind of thinking to me. I can't think of any other way to view it actually. So it makes me pretty uneasy. There are no racial supermen and any time people have started to believe that it has lead to very bad things. Look at the rosters, BLM. Most NFL players are black. It's a fact not an opinion. Young black men, especially those from poor backgrounds, gravitate to football and basketball because they offer real opportunities for talented kids to get out of poverty. Sports are certainly a better choice than criminal activity or just giving up. Most poor kids, white or black, don't have many options. Blacks aren't the only groups in the US that have used sports as keys to upward mobility. At various times and places in the US since after the Civil War, various immigrant groups dominated the popular sports of their eras: Irish, Germans, Jews, Italians, Hispanics. Young men with next to nothing except their athleticism and talent, and not much help from the larger society, used sports to better themselves and leap into the middle class. In the case of blacks, the larger society has tended to be virulently hostile until relatively recently.
folz Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 5 hours ago, SoTier said: Something like 70-80 percent of NFL players are black, and blacks make up the majority of players at every position except QB and special positions like kickers and long snappers. Less than a third (10 of 32) of the starting QBs are/have been black this season ... and that includes Brent Hundley who is replacing the injured Aaron Rodgers as well as Jacoby Brissette who was originally subbing for Andrew Luck who was expected to return. That's way under the 16-22 one would expect if blacks were given the same opportunities to be QBs in the NFL as whites, so a casual observer might very well think that there's something to the story. IMO, the problem isn't so much in the NFL as it is in big time college football. Just like there' are few no black HCs at the marquee collegiate programs that produce the majority of professional players, there's a dearth of black QBs starting at many of those same programs, perhaps most. My guess is that many/most young black QBs talented enough to be recruited into major collegiate programs are encouraged (sometimes by coaches but sometimes by family or friends) to play other positions beside QB because they're perceived as offering more opportunity to make the pros. That results in most of the top collegiate QB prospects being white. If you don't think this happens, read the bios of a lot of black pros playing other positions ... a significant number were HS QBs. I really thought your second paragraph was about to go in a different direction (regarding college) than it did. But I'll get to that in a minute...anyhow, this isn't directed at you SoTier but more to the media or ultra-left who always play the race, gender, or whatever card to keep us fighting each other rather than coming together as we should be doing. First of all, opinions are often built upon perceptions rather than reality. The reality is that as of 2016, whites account for about 77% of the U.S. population and blacks about 13.3% of the population. That means that the majority of high schools in the country probably have a white QB simply because there are more white kids overall across the board. So, those kids are all being developed as QBs, while a much smaller number of young black men are, not because of racial bias, but because the pool of kids to draw from is just soooo much smaller. So, the number of black QBs going into the college game prepared is going to be smaller just based on demographics and nothing else. Now, I don't know the exact number of or ratio of black QBs to white QBs in college, but the fact that some feel it should be closer to 50/50 when one pool of players is most likely six times smaller than the other pool of players, seems a bit crazy. Unless, as another poster pointed out, that someone is just assuming that automatically a black athlete is better than a white athlete based on race alone. As to the Bills being lumped into the "racist" NFL coaching and ownerships who won't give black QBs a break, I posted in another thread, the Bills have had 6 black QBs over the last 6 years and they have started 60 of the last 73 games for Buf. So, anyone trying to throw the race card at the Bills organization seems to be way off base. And finally, with all of the discussions about the problems of college QBs transitioning into the league, one thing that I have often heard said about the college game right now is that college coaches are just taking their best athlete and putting him at the QB spot because it gives them the best chance to win at that level. They're not choosing the best passer or the guy who can read defenses, etc. No, just the best athlete. So, many of these guys do not translate to the NFL. It isn't because they are black (look at Johnny Manziel) it is because they aren't the most skilled at what it takes to succeed as a QB at the next level. If the college game were instead grooming the best passers and smartest players (football smarts) then maybe more of the black QBs that start in college would make it in the NFL because they would have the right skills to do so, they would be more than just a great athlete. So much goes into any discussion like this, but the media, social media, and many people just want to scream racism right away. Yes, we need to point out injustice where it stands and not deny issues that exist. Yes, in the past there was a bias by many owners against black QBs (not Ralph though). I am not ignoring that, but Tyrod's situation has nothing to do with that at all. As a country we need to start coming together to discuss issues and cooperate, not just point figures and assess blame. What good does that do? Yes, racism needs to be addressed, but when it turns into everyone is a racist just because they are white or because their words were taken out of context, ugh.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 24 minutes ago, SoTier said: Look at the rosters, BLM. Most NFL players are black. It's a fact not an opinion. Young black men, especially those from poor backgrounds, gravitate to football and basketball because they offer real opportunities for talented kids to get out of poverty. Sports are certainly a better choice than criminal activity or just giving up. Most poor kids, white or black, don't have many options. Blacks aren't the only groups in the US that have used sports as keys to upward mobility. At various times and places in the US since after the Civil War, various immigrant groups dominated the popular sports of their eras: Irish, Germans, Jews, Italians, Hispanics. Young men with next to nothing except their athleticism and talent, and not much help from the larger society, used sports to better themselves and leap into the middle class. In the case of blacks, the larger society has tended to be virulently hostile until relatively recently. There are far more poor whites in the country than poor blacks. Try again. 1
Spiderweb Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 Rather than "Trumping" on the "media" which creates fake news in and of itself, blast away at ESPN directly. It's been well discussed around here about how this once very good sports channel has hit the skids...... 1
Buffaloflash Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 On 11/16/2017 at 11:36 AM, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: you know, I've never been racist, still not, never will be but it's getting really tiring hearing these players play the race card. tyrod, you did not and likely never would of lived up to expectations. take it like a man and leave the race card bull **** out of it! *that is if he is playing it? Stop believing everything you read! On 11/16/2017 at 11:41 AM, PromoTheRobot said: He didn't play the race card but Mike Schopp did on his show yesterday. Yeah,and Schoop is,and always will be an Idiot!
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted November 17, 2017 Posted November 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Buffaloflash said: Stop believing everything you read! well at least that's settled then. I thought I was living in a racist society, can't be though, must all be fake news. Edited November 17, 2017 by DaBillsFanSince1973
Tcali Posted November 19, 2017 Posted November 19, 2017 QBing is more cerebral(footballsmarts not IQ) than athletic of course. Blacks in general are better athletes.They are faster runners. That is just a fact. There is a difference between white people and black people in their muscle insertions and that ratio that produces the ability to move faster. Of course there are the Mike Mosleys from the Bills in the 80s and the Lance Alworths and others who were/are the exceptions. There is no prejudice against whites in the high paying CB position. Whites are...lets say...are on a more equal footing when it comes to the QB position.So therefore there is a more normal ratio/% of QBs per racial population. Also: many or most colleges have the model of the great athlete QB ..which is generally a winner on the field in college ball. The problem is they are not developed properly to be great NFL QBs. And many dumb franchises are fooled by all the winning in college--thinking that they can make a player into something he is not trained to be. Now don't tell me the exceptions. We know they are out there.I am speaking in general.(I love Watson and the killer instinct he seems to have:The winning instinct) And don't tell me I'm claiming something about blacks being dumb and not able to be great QBs.Its not about IQ(look at Kelly,Marino,Montana:Not exactly the brothers Einstein) But should the 3 best QBs in the league be age 40,38,and 35? Somethings wrong here.
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