Who's been most screwed by the Bills? Of All Time.

[Ol Dirty B]

2 minutes ago, Air it out Fitzy said:

The fans were screwed by the 69 yard passer 

 

How anyone can think the qb got screwed is pretty strange. 

 

I don't know. Your 2nd and 3rd receiver not being resigned over the past two years and then trading the number 1 a couple weeks before the season.

 

Leaving him with no back up rbs, an aging line, and throwing him into a scheme that doesn't suit him because McDermott has been Rex 2.0 so far in forcing the scheme in players instead of vice-verse. But no that's just a bunch of non sense to you in sure. 

 

This team probably did everything they could for him to succeed in your eyes.

 

The trade for Benjamin even makes no sense when you look at Tyrods skill set. He throws to guys who get separation , Benjamin is among the worst at that.

[Teddy KGB]

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I don't know. Your 2nd and 3rd receiver not being resigned over the past two years and then trading the number 1 a couple weeks before the season.

 

Leaving him with no back up rbs, an aging line, and throwing him into a scheme that doesn't suit him because McDermott has been Rex 2.0 so far in forcing the scheme in players instead of vice-verse. But no that's just a bunch of non sense to you in sure. 

 

This team probably did everything they could for him to succeed in your eyes.

 

The trade for Benjamin even makes no sense when you look at Tyrods skill set. He throws to guys who get separation , Benjamin is among the worst at that.

 

He couldn't pass and he got benched.         The laundry lists of excuses will go on forever though. 

 

Tyrod lovers go hard. 

 

 

[LA Grant]

23 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Tyrod could be "elite"? Puh-leeze! Good grief. With the money and the chances they gave him he has been treated fairly. I totally understand why Tyrod would feel frustrated and angry. It's how nearly any player would feel. But he simply hasn't played well enough. He's handling this like a pro, like the good guy that he is. But if he'd played better, this move never would have happened.

 

I understand why he doesn't have a lot of total yards, but his YPA was 6.6. I mean that's awful, it's 30th in the league. It's not surprising they had to make a change.

 

Will putting in Peterman make the Bills better? Hard to say, but I totally understand this move. They aren't getting it done. Changes are necessary. We may see more as things move along.

 

As for being screwed ... Fred Jackson, maybe, but I'd say Travis Henry. Remember when he kept playing on a broken leg? The guy was tough and good, and put it all on the line for the team, and they drafted Willis McGahee. 

 

Henry turned out to be an idiot, trafficking cocaine and burying himself in child support payments, but the Bills treated him badly and McGahee IMHO wasn't any better. Waste of a draft pick.

 

Both Freddy and Travis Henry are good suggestions.

 

10 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Including Taylor and EJ on this list is laughable.  How many starts are you supposed to give guys who have shown time and time again they aren't going to get any better?

 

I don't even know how respond to statements as divorced from reality as this one.   

 

This is where we diverge -- we don't know for certain that Tyrod wasn't going to get any better. What happened to Alex Smith? Why did he go from "never going to get any better" to being an MVP candidate?

 

He had all of one game with a #1 receiver this year -- someone he had just met. Yes, the Saints game was terrible. But everyone on the team played terribly. Both of our lines have been destroyed at the LOS the last two weeks. I understand the reasoning that Peterman's quicker release may mask the OL pass blocking issues some. We will see. But I think you can't say Tyrod was not going to get better, now that he finally had a real weapon in the passing game. 

 

To replace your QB after two ugly losses -- only one of which do I think he played poorly, because against the Jets I think he did as well as anyone could've, I don't think Peterman makes a difference in that game -- especially when the team is currently holding a playoff spot and a winning record... There is a reason this is an uncommon scenario. 

 

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

I don't know. Your 2nd and 3rd receiver not being resigned over the past two years and then trading the number 1 a couple weeks before the season.

 

Leaving him with no back up rbs, an aging line, and throwing him into a scheme that doesn't suit him because McDermott has been Rex 2.0 so far in forcing the scheme in players instead of vice-verse. But no that's just a bunch of non sense to you in sure. 

 

This team probably did everything they could for him to succeed in your eyes.

 

The trade for Benjamin even makes no sense when you look at Tyrods skill set. He throws to guys who get separation , Benjamin is among the worst at that.

 

Yeah, exactly this. 

 

This move shows that they were looking to replace Tyrod the moment they drafted Peterman. Sometimes QBs will have bad games. Big Ben looked like a disaster this year against the Ravens and openly talked about retiring. If he were on the Bills, he'd have been traded the next day. 

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, Air it out Fitzy said:

 

He couldn't pass and he got benched.         The laundry lists of excuses will go on forever though. 

 

Tyrod lovers go hard. 

 

 

 

I actually want them to draft a Qb this year. Never said he was the answer and it wasn't a laundry list it was actually legitimate reasoning something you might not be capable of. If you can refute any of it I respect it, but just calling me a Tyrod lover going hard because I'm making a pretty easy argument against what you said is lazy

 

And if that's all you can do then you deserve 17 years and another 17 after that.

[KD in CA]

Just now, LA Grant said:

 

To replace your QB after two ugly losses -- only one of which do I think he played poorly, because against the Jets I think he did as well as anyone could've, I don't think Peterman makes a difference in that game -- especially when the team is currently holding a playoff spot and a winning record... There is a reason this is an uncommon scenario. 

 

I know you'll just keep repeating this but I'll point it out once.  It wasn't just two ugly losses;  it's his whole ugly career.  The guy simply can't carry a team the way a QB needs to carry a team to win consistently in the NFL.  He just don't have the ability to throw the ball well enough.  He didn't the day he was drafted and he still doesn't and he never will.

 

[LA Grant]

Just now, KD in CA said:

 

I know you'll just keep repeating this but I'll point it out once.  It wasn't just two ugly losses;  it's his whole ugly career.  The guy simply can't carry a team the way a QB needs to carry a team to win consistently in the NFL.  He just don't have the ability to throw the ball well enough.  He didn't the day he was drafted and he still doesn't and he never will.

 

 

He has a winning record. The team he was leading is right now in a playoff spot.

[reddogblitz]

Flutie

[Thurman#1]

22 minutes ago, LA Grant said:

 

Both Freddy and Travis Henry are good suggestions.

 

 

This is where we diverge -- we don't know for certain that Tyrod wasn't going to get any better. What happened to Alex Smith? Why did he go from "never going to get any better" to being an MVP candidate?

 

He had all of one game with a #1 receiver this year -- someone he had just met. Yes, the Saints game was terrible. But everyone on the team played terribly. Both of our lines have been destroyed at the LOS the last two weeks. I understand the reasoning that Peterman's quicker release may mask the OL pass blocking issues some. We will see. But I think you can't say Tyrod was not going to get better, now that he finally had a real weapon in the passing game. 

 

To replace your QB after two ugly losses -- only one of which do I think he played poorly, because against the Jets I think he did as well as anyone could've, I don't think Peterman makes a difference in that game -- especially when the team is currently holding a playoff spot and a winning record... There is a reason this is an uncommon scenario. 

 

 

Yeah, exactly this. 

 

This move shows that they were looking to replace Tyrod the moment they drafted Peterman. Sometimes QBs will have bad games. Big Ben looked like a disaster this year against the Ravens and openly talked about retiring. If he were on the Bills, he'd have been traded the next day. 

 

 

 

Alex Smith got better in his fifth year. And up till then he'd had a different system to learn every single year of his career. Plenty of guys take till their third fourth or even fifth year to figure things out. After that, though, there's really only one guy in NFL history who wasn't a franchise guy by the end of five years and then became one afterwards. 

 

Rich Gannon. And nobody else. And a ton of guys have had chances. None of them made it. Generally once you've been in the league that long and had a chance to play a couple of years we know who you are.

 

We know who Tyrod is. He still has the same problems he's shown since we got him ... really since college. He doesn't throw with anticipation, he's not great from the pocket, he doesn't use the deep and intermediate middle third well, he doesn't go through many reads quickly. Could he get a bit better? Sure. In some ways he has. But elite? There just isn't any way.

 

Tyrod accepted the lower contract here knowing that McDermott said that to QB for him a guy had to throw from the pocket. He hasn't. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, LA Grant said:

Who do you think received the most raw deal in their time with the Bills? I know some of you are very much company men who will always side with the team over the player, but otherwise I think you can agree, just like any business, some employees just come into a bad situation and get screwed over. Here are my candidates for who had it worst.

 

Tyrod Taylor  I'm sure some of you see it differently, I definitely think Tyrod got kind of screwed over with the Bills. He earned the starting job in a TC competition where he wasn't the organization's preferred guy. He has a winning record as a starter, despite a new OC every season, and zero consistency in receiving targets. Not saying he didn't struggle at times. Saints game was a disaster and it wasn't his first really terrible performance. At the same time, he did show a consistent ability to not turn the ball over, and a less consistent but still present playmaking ability. We'll see what happens but my feeling with Tyrod is if he was in a RPO offense with a good speedy deep-threat (ie, a healthy Watkins), he could be elite. 

 

Doug Flutie Similar situation to Tyrod in the sense that he won the starting job but nobody was really rooting for him to do so. It would have been much easier on the organization if Rob Johnson had stayed healthy and played well, but just like with EJ, the backup outplayed him. Benching him versus the Titans was the wrong move, but it's not indefensible -- even at the time people were calling for it. Bills Daily keeps all of their archives up back to that season -- you can literally go read their take of the last regular season game when Johnson had one of his best career games against the Colts, and even they were saying RJ should start in the playoffs, because Flutie had struggled throughout the year and it looked like defenses had figured him out. The "magic" was gone, and the team was winning ugly games with defense and running the ball. The way everything happened with the controversy in 2000, and then Wade's firing was the beginning of the long night we've been in for 17 years. 

 

Doug Whaley Never got to pick a head coach, or even have a consistent coach for more than 2 years. Not to mention you were GM for Ralph, then after his passing and through the sale to the Pegulas, so he also didn't have consistency there, either. It's not that his draft moves didn't have vision, I don't agree with that take on Whaley, e could see the type of team he was envisioning, his problem was more that he seemed to draft with desperation every year. He also was way too loose with the checkbook in free agency. Those things are understandable, though, considering what he was dealing with, that he'd try to "win now" as much as possible and end the drought and finally establish stability. Would we have been better off this year if Whaley stayed and picked a different coach? Who can say. But our roster would certainly look very different right now.

 

Wade Phillips I think Wade might be my pick because he was fired despite never posting a losing season. His worst season was 8-8. His firing wasn't unexpected, though; he handled the QB situation in 2000 horribly, plus his really dumb comments about being out of contention in the primetime game against the Colts, when we had the same record as them but they did end up going to the playoffs. And Ronnie Jones, i think was his name, the ST coach -- our special teams were really horrible. But, I think our problems were not so drastic that we needed to fire Wade and clean house. If Ralph and Wade had found a solution to keep him, the Bills would have been much better building and rebuilding their roster. 

 

EJ Manuel First round draft pick. Starts week one of his rookie season. Plays well throughout his rookie year, despite being, you know, a rookie. And not a consensus kind of rookie QB, either. EJ was never going to be Deshaun Watson. He was slated as a 4th round guy and the Bills reached and put too much pressure on a dude that even Florida fans knew, and were saying, EJ was inaccurate and slow to read the field. But his development was totally wrecked when Marrone benched him for Orton and we never really had the chance to see what EJ could have done with more time getting to play with Sammy Watkins. He did have a shot at the job in Rex's first TC, so I while I think the Bills definitely mismanaged EJ, he still had his fair amount of chances and they were right to let him go.

 

Other Candidates You could make a case for Bill Polian, John Butler, Ted Cottrell, and the way the team cut Thurman/Andre/Bruce. 

 

The Fans This one gets my vote. What a ridiculous thing it is to follow this team and root for their success. Stay Billsy, Buffalo.

 

 

Fans.  Then Wade.

[Thurman#1]

 

 

18 minutes ago, LA Grant said:

 

He has a winning record. The team he was leading is right now in a playoff spot.

 

 

Tyrod Taylor does NOT have a winning record. The Buffalo Bills do.

 

The full name of the stat you are referencing is "TEAM record in games started by this QB (Regular Season)".

 

Stats that are Tyrod's are passer rating, completion percentage, YPA, etc.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Thurman#1

[KD in CA]

3 minutes ago, LA Grant said:

 

He has a winning record. The team he was leading is right now in a playoff spot.

 

Yup, 19-18.  He's perfect for a team that aspires to be .500 forever.

 

And no, they are not 'in' a playoff spot.  Playoff spots will be determined at the conclusion of the regular season.  And it's pretty clear what direction the Bills are trending.

 

And none of that addresses the core issue that you keep ignoring:  he's a terrible passer and you can't win in the NFL without a good passer.

[LA Grant]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

Alex Smith got better in his fifth year. And up till then he'd had a different system to learn every single year of his career. Plenty of guys take till their third fourth or even fifth year to figure things out. After that, though, there's really only one guy in NFL history who wasn't a franchise guy by the end of five years and then became one afterwards. 

 

Rich Gannon. And nobody else. And a ton of guys have had chances. None of them made it. Generally once you've been in the league that long and had a chance to play a couple of years we know who you are.

 

We know who Tyrod is. He still has the same problems he's shown since we got him ... really since college. He doesn't throw with anticipation, he's not great from the pocket, he doesn't use the deep and intermediate middle third well, he doesn't go through many reads quickly. Could he get a bit better? Sure. In some ways he has. But elite? There just isn't any way.

 

Tyrod accepted the lower contract here knowing that McDermott said that to QB for him a guy had to throw from the pocket. He hasn't. 

 

 

Alex Smith learning a different system every single year of his career? Why does that sound fami -- oh right, because that also describes Tyrod Taylor. In his third year of starting.  Perhaps if he'd been in a situation where he'd get that third, fourth, or fifth year to figure it out --- hmm! Who knows? As you acknowledge yourself, Tyrod had shown improvement each year, even with new systems and new receivers.

 

I wonder how many people were saying "there just isn't any way" Alex Smith could ever be elite.

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

12 minutes ago, LA Grant said:

 

 

Alex Smith learning a different system every single year of his career? Why does that sound fami -- oh right, because that also describes Tyrod Taylor. In his third year of starting.  Perhaps if he'd been in a situation where he'd get that third, fourth, or fifth year to figure it out --- hmm! Who knows? As you acknowledge yourself, Tyrod had shown improvement each year, even with new systems and new receivers.

 

I wonder how many people were saying "there just isn't any way" Alex Smith could ever be elite.

 

 

 

No, sorry, you're wrong about that. Tyrod had the same system here in Buffalo his first two years. And he didn't improve. His best year, by far, was his first.

 

Again, Alex Smith had a different system every single year up to and including the year Harbaugh got there.

 

And Alex Smith ISN'T elite. He's been good enough to be a franchise guy for a long time, and this year he's probably top 7 or 8. But no, he's not elite. Nor will Tyrod ever be. Ever.

 

 

There's a reason you haven't had a single person back you up on that "elite" claim. The reason is that it's laughable.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Thurman#1

[CookieG]

In 1967, Lamonica and wide receiver Glenn Bass were traded to the Oakland Raiders for wide receiver Art Powell and quarterback Tom Flores. Lamonica recalled, “Art Powell said to me, ‘I am probably the culprit, because I wanted to get back to Canada. I probably instigated that.’ Whether that is true or not, I don’t know.”

Lamonica continued, “There were no agents back then. I got to talk to both Ralph Wilson Junior and Senior the night before I was traded. Mr. Wilson Sr. said, ‘You will be our starting quarterback coming back this year.’ I was so fired up I could run through a brick wall. Eight hours later, I was traded. I still don’t know. Mr. Wilson has never explained it to me, why he traded me.”

However, Lamonica did not find out about the trade from traditional channels. Lamonica recalled, “I was talking to somebody and he said, ‘Hey, you have been traded to the Raiders!’ I said, ‘Yeah, yeah, right. No way.’ I had to call the Fresno Bee, my hometown paper, to find out that I was traded. I called my mom and she said that Al Davis had called and wanted me to call.”

 

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/where-are-they-now-daryle-lamonica/

 

 

[metzelaars_lives]

2 hours ago, LA Grant said:

Who do you think received the most raw deal in their time with the Bills? I know some of you are very much company men who will always side with the team over the player, but otherwise I think you can agree, just like any business, some employees just come into a bad situation and get screwed over. Here are my candidates for who had it worst.

 

Tyrod Taylor  I'm sure some of you see it differently, I definitely think Tyrod got kind of screwed over with the Bills. He earned the starting job in a TC competition where he wasn't the organization's preferred guy. He has a winning record as a starter, despite a new OC every season, and zero consistency in receiving targets. Not saying he didn't struggle at times. Saints game was a disaster and it wasn't his first really terrible performance. At the same time, he did show a consistent ability to not turn the ball over, and a less consistent but still present playmaking ability. We'll see what happens but my feeling with Tyrod is if he was in a RPO offense with a good speedy deep-threat (ie, a healthy Watkins), he could be elite. 

 

Doug Flutie Similar situation to Tyrod in the sense that he won the starting job but nobody was really rooting for him to do so. It would have been much easier on the organization if Rob Johnson had stayed healthy and played well, but just like with EJ, the backup outplayed him. Benching him versus the Titans was the wrong move, but it's not indefensible -- even at the time people were calling for it. Bills Daily keeps all of their archives up back to that season -- you can literally go read their take of the last regular season game when Johnson had one of his best career games against the Colts, and even they were saying RJ should start in the playoffs, because Flutie had struggled throughout the year and it looked like defenses had figured him out. The "magic" was gone, and the team was winning ugly games with defense and running the ball. The way everything happened with the controversy in 2000, and then Wade's firing was the beginning of the long night we've been in for 17 years. 

 

Doug Whaley Never got to pick a head coach, or even have a consistent coach for more than 2 years. Not to mention you were GM for Ralph, then after his passing and through the sale to the Pegulas, so he also didn't have consistency there, either. It's not that his draft moves didn't have vision, I don't agree with that take on Whaley, e could see the type of team he was envisioning, his problem was more that he seemed to draft with desperation every year. He also was way too loose with the checkbook in free agency. Those things are understandable, though, considering what he was dealing with, that he'd try to "win now" as much as possible and end the drought and finally establish stability. Would we have been better off this year if Whaley stayed and picked a different coach? Who can say. But our roster would certainly look very different right now.

 

Wade Phillips I think Wade might be my pick because he was fired despite never posting a losing season. His worst season was 8-8. His firing wasn't unexpected, though; he handled the QB situation in 2000 horribly, plus his really dumb comments about being out of contention in the primetime game against the Colts, when we had the same record as them but they did end up going to the playoffs. And Ronnie Jones, i think was his name, the ST coach -- our special teams were really horrible. But, I think our problems were not so drastic that we needed to fire Wade and clean house. If Ralph and Wade had found a solution to keep him, the Bills would have been much better building and rebuilding their roster. 

 

EJ Manuel First round draft pick. Starts week one of his rookie season. Plays well throughout his rookie year, despite being, you know, a rookie. And not a consensus kind of rookie QB, either. EJ was never going to be Deshaun Watson. He was slated as a 4th round guy and the Bills reached and put too much pressure on a dude that even Florida fans knew, and were saying, EJ was inaccurate and slow to read the field. But his development was totally wrecked when Marrone benched him for Orton and we never really had the chance to see what EJ could have done with more time getting to play with Sammy Watkins. He did have a shot at the job in Rex's first TC, so I while I think the Bills definitely mismanaged EJ, he still had his fair amount of chances and they were right to let him go.

 

Other Candidates You could make a case for Bill Polian, John Butler, Ted Cottrell, and the way the team cut Thurman/Andre/Bruce. 

 

The Fans This one gets my vote. What a ridiculous thing it is to follow this team and root for their success. Stay Billsy, Buffalo.

 

 

EJ Manuel "played well throughout his rookie year?"

[CanadianFan]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

If Polian stayed, we keep winning. He won in Carolina and Indy. He got screwed and WE got screwed! 

 

I agree. if anyone should've gotten fired it was the coach, not Polian. Marv never helped the team recover from the psychological shock of the first superbowl loss. You can tell in replays the team went into a shocked mental state every time there were bad bounces in the game or they got behind. They shut down mentally and it was over at that point.

[Norwood for Wall of Fame]

Wade has a ring.  Ralph did him a favor.

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

2 hours ago, LA Grant said:

Tyrod Taylor  I'm sure some of you see it differently, I definitely think Tyrod got kind of screwed over with the Bills. He earned the starting job in a TC competition where he wasn't the organization's preferred guy. He has a winning record as a starter, despite a new OC every season, and zero consistency in receiving targets. Not saying he didn't struggle at times. Saints game was a disaster and it wasn't his first really terrible performance. At the same time, he did show a consistent ability to not turn the ball over, and a less consistent but still present playmaking ability. We'll see what happens but my feeling with Tyrod is if he was in a RPO offense with a good speedy deep-threat (ie, a healthy Watkins), he could be elite. 

 

It's hard to debate with fans sometimes because most of the time they answer their own question... If Tyrod was good enough he would make the targets around him better and not the other way around, if you have to surround him with HOF WR for him to still be average then he's been average all along but in reality he's never been more than a serviceable QB yet somehow fans thought he was going to turn some switch and it was miraculously going to happen, almost all the time you can see the transition quite fast, then you have guys like Goff who needs a year or 2 and then there is the diamond in the rough, the journeyman who becomes franchise (Rich Gannon).

[Freddie's Dead]

2 hours ago, Another Fan said:

Fred Jackson?  I only mention that because of how he got cut.  I still think he had something in the tank two years ago and could have been a good leader type

You beat me to it.

[BobbyC81]

3 hours ago, moshermw said:

Even against LAC, Peterman will be replaced by TT at half.

 

Most likely injury because the OL sux - or the 2 pick 6's he throws "anticipating'' open receivers - whatever one thinks that means -and is a good thing.

 

This whole thing is silly.

 

 

 

 

Many rookie QBs throw pick sixes in their 1st start.  It's like step 1 of the learning process .