Carolina has the #1 defense

[CanadianFan]

38 minutes ago, Captain Murica said:

Yup, I don't get it. A lot of people picked this team to be 5-11 to 6-10 because this wasn't a one year plan and we traded away talent for draft currency to build for the future. But, now the team started off good and have hit a skid means McDermott sucks, Beane is stupid, and we might as well just chug bleach. 

 

It's not the record. It's how badly we got out-coached and out-played with 10 days to prepare. That's what's disturbed people. I'm ok with competitive losses. we know all the excuses. This was bad after 1st quarter. 

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, Peter said:

 

I guess the Panthers do not miss their former defensive coordinator given that their defense is so much better than it had been last year.

 

It would have been great to have Wade back.  I also am missing Kromer.

I miss Kromer as well.  I wonder what happened to him?  I know I could google it and find the answer in seconds but I prefer to envision him living a new life in out there on the fringe of society.  A man who has been pushed too far.  A man trying to find meaning in a world without law or decency whose singular purpose is protecting the one thing he has left and laying waste to anyone or anything who comes between him and his beach chairs.  

 

That's the Kromer I want to remember.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Jauronimo

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Carolina is running the same system, correct? Under a guy who trained for years under McDermott as secondary coach. He was promoted a year or so ago to secondary coach / assistant head coach but he knows the system and isn't changing it.

 

Whereas McDermott is coming into a new team with guys who don't fit the system and don't know the system.

 

This doesn't prove McDermott will be good. But it really is an extremely common outcome for a team switching systems to have trouble for the first year and improve quite a bit the second  and third years.

Some fair points.  My only counters:

 

1)  Part of the problem with Rex is he was running a 3-4 with 4-3 players.  I'd argue that guys like Preston Brown, Jerry Hughes, Marcell Dareus, Kyle Williams, and Shaq Lawson are better fits for the current defense than Rex's.  So SM didn't have to do a total transformation.  In fact, it seems about as easy of a transition as any new coach could have.

 

2)  The defense has progressively gotten worse.  It also seems like he completely misjudged the value of Dareus.  That move could be a complete killer of playoffs chances in a terrible AFC.

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

Carolina's defense had a bunch of injuries last season (LB (Luke Kuechly), defensive line, secondary), some at key positions. They also lost their #1CB and 3/4 of their starting secondary from the year before (when they were the #6 defense in the NFL) and were starting 2 rookies (and both were later round picks IIRC). 

 

Plus the offense struggled big time, too. It put the defense in a lot of tough situations. Cam wasn't himself late year. He was playing injured for much of the season IIRC.

 

There's also that "Super Bowl hangover" factor... 

 

Its not like Carolina's defense wasn't successful when McDermott was there. He had a top 10 defense 4 of the last 5 years, including a #2 ranking and #6 ranking. 

Last year was just an unusual down year for that D. I'm not surprised that they are rebounding this year. 

 

It took McDermott until part way through year 2 to get that Carolina defense playing very well. Then in year 3 they really took a big step forward. He has very little talent on his Bills defense right now, outside of a few guys. Let's wait and see what he does once he gets some more talent to fill key roles... 

 

 

Belichick had full control and was both head coach and (de facto) GM from day 1 in New England. He did bring Scott Pioli with him from the Jets as his director of player personnel (I believe he was first named asst director of player personnel in 2001, and then director in 2001). Pioli never held the title of GM in NE though (nobody buy Belichick has since BB was hired) or had more power than BB. 

 

It's actually somewhat similar to what McDermott did with bringing Beane here. He brought someone he has total faith in and respect for to work with.

Except Beane is the actual GM and seems to have all the power a GM has. I do think McDermott played a huge role in his hiring but that doesn't mean he is a puppet GM and I don't at all get the impression he is. He seems to be making the trades and personnel moves since he was hired. Also, just Look at the front office, personnel and scouting staff he put together. There's a lot of what I would call big names. I can't see all those guys leaving their current jobs (Gaine being a more/less lateral move) to work for a puppet GM. 

 

IMO McDermott and Beane are working hand in hand. Everything seems to be a collaboration, and (again, IMO) that's how it should be. Just because McDermott wanted to work with Beane doesn't mean Beane is his puppet. In fact, I think it's quite the opposite. I think McDermott wanted to work with Beane because he has full faith/trust in him and his ability to run a team, and really respects his opinion. 

 

I agree that McDermott seemed to initially have been given quite a bit of power for a 1st time head coach, especially while Whaley was still GM. I also know that it is more the exception than the norm for a coach to help hire his GM. But since Beane was hired, it seems like a very normal GM and coach combo to me. Both seem to be in their normal, defined roles. 

 

Coaches having more power/say seems to be a trend. Sean McVay and Les Snead both work very closely together and McVay plays a big role in decisions. Dan Quinn was given a big say in Atlanta. Kyle Shanahan is a 1st time head coach, was technically hired before Lynch and ownership made sure Kyle Shanahan like Lynch and felt he would work well with him before they would hire Lynch (I would assume Shanahan played some role in his hiring, but that is more/less speculation on my part). Both Pete Carrol and Andy Reid basically hired their own GM's (granted both were more experienced at the time). I think it's crucial that the HC and GM are working in perfect sync with each other and are on the exact same page. I think that's the way to have true sustained success. I think that is how most good organizations are run. 

Good post and make some solid points.  Personally, I would have rather had an offensive coach like Shanahan or McVay and found a DC.  But points taken.

1 hour ago, Captain Murica said:

Yup, I don't get it. A lot of people picked this team to be 5-11 to 6-10 because this wasn't a one year plan and we traded away talent for draft currency to build for the future. But, now the team started off good and have hit a skid means McDermott sucks, Beane is stupid, and we might as well just chug bleach. 

Preseason predictions are completely meaningless.  The AFC is about as garbage as a conference as there has been in years.  The Bucs, Bengals, Raiders, and Broncos, trendy playoff picks, have losing records.  Personally, I hated the Sammy trade from day one.  If you wanted to be Tyrod in the best place to succeed, you don't get rid of his best wr.

 

That said, they had a very surprising and great start.  Expectations change.  Then, they trade a DT who has top 5 potential.  Unmotivated, fat and out of shape, high on spice Dareus is better than any other DT on the roster.  And since he has been trade, we have been completely female dog slapped on defense.  Someone should have brought up the dead money that we will have on the books for 2 years and decided that MD could be the difference between ending 17 years of BS and that a 6th round pick could have been gotten in the offseason. 

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, fansince88 said:

5 years. I dont care, give it 5 years!!

I used to be real patient but 5 years in the NFL is insane.  You should have a good idea of what type of coach/ GM the current regime is by the end of year 2.  Do you really want to wait 5 years for the next Dick Jauron?

 

Despite what the trades they made, this roster had a lot of talent.  I respect the character idea but these weren't Joe Mixon type guys they traded.  

[BuffaloRush]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

In terms of yardage at 278/ game.  I just heard this on PTI. They were 21 last year at 359.8.

 

Buffalo is at 25 this year, 359.9.  Last year’s defense, which some claimed was one of the worst ever, was 19 and gave up 357 yards/ game.

 

this leads me a couple of questions:

 

1) it’s eerie how close the Bills and Panthers d last year are in terms of yards/ game.  Why the major improvements in Carolina this year? And what does that say about McD’s role running their D?

 

2) did we give to much power to McD?  I hate from the start how the Pegulas handled hiring him.  The GM should have hired their own coach not the other way.  I feel like we have a first time coach with all the power and a puppet GM.

 

I think SM is a fine coach. Personally, I would have rather hired an offensive coach h because you can find good DCs but more goes into being a successful head coach.  I just worry that SM has way too much imprint on this team and it can affect his ability to coach, a la Chip Kelly.

 

That's because the plan likely was to fire Doug Whaley.  They didn't because they didn't because of the draft.  I thought it was pretty clear that McDermott had assurances that Whaley was on his way out

[GunnerBill]

I see this as a positive not a negative.  McDermott and Beane were involved in the building of that defense - selecting the talent and coaching the rookie defensive backs up last year.  I have faith they will build a good defense here.  

[fansince88]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I used to be real patient but 5 years in the NFL is insane.  You should have a good idea of what type of coach/ GM the current regime is by the end of year 2.  Do you really want to wait 5 years for the next Dick Jauron?

 

Despite what the trades they made, this roster had a lot of talent.  I respect the character idea but these weren't Joe Mixon type guys they traded.  

Yes I do.

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

I miss Kromer as well.  I wonder what happened to him?  I know I could google it and find the answer in seconds but I prefer to envision him living a new life in out there on the fringe of society.  A man who has been pushed too far.  A man trying to find meaning in a world without law or decency whose singular purpose is protecting the one thing he has left and laying waste to anyone or anything who comes between him and his beach chairs.  

 

That's the Kromer I want to remember.

Well, actually he is OL coach for the 

Rams....they have a beach...

[thenorthremembers]

Oh God, this again?   We all have to open our eyes a bit and realize that everything about the NFL game correlates to the Quarterback.   Good coaches have good quarterbacks, look at Belichick's win percentage before Brady, >50%.   Did we miss out on McVay and Phillips?  No we missed out on the 2nd year of the #1 overall pick.

 

Want to know what's different about Carolina's defense this year?   Their stud quarterback isn't hurt and playing like crap like he did in 2016.   Go back to his 2015 season and see how good their defense was then, I'll save you the time...they were 6th overall.  So did McDermott suddenly forget how to coach defense in the last two years or did he end up with a starting quarterback who cant throw the ball well and doesn't pick up third downs?  

 

Defense is irrelevant in the league, almost as irrelevant as coaching.   As of the end of last year these were the top active coaches in terms of win%, what do they have in common?  They coached good to great quarterbacks.  They also had defenses that varied in rank from year to year.  

 

Table 1. Top Five Active NFL Coaches Win %
Coach	Career Win%	Quarterback
Belichick	0.67	Brady
Arians	0.648	Luck, Palmer
McCarthy	0.645	Favre, Rodgers
Tomlin	0.637	Roethlisberger
Reid	0.602	Mcnabb, Smith

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, thenorthremembers said:

Oh God, this again?   We all have to open our eyes a bit and realize that everything about the NFL game correlates to the Quarterback.   Good coaches have good quarterbacks, look at Belichick's win percentage before Brady, >50%.   Did we miss out on McVay and Phillips?  No we missed out on the 2nd year of the #1 overall pick.

 

Want to know what's different about Carolina's defense this year?   Their stud quarterback isn't hurt and playing like crap like he did in 2016.   Go back to his 2015 season and see how good their defense was then, I'll save you the time...they were 6th overall.  So did McDermott suddenly forget how to coach defense in the last two years or did he end up with a starting quarterback who cant throw the ball well and doesn't pick up third downs?  

 

Defense is irrelevant in the league, almost as irrelevant as coaching.   As of the end of last year these were the top active coaches in terms of win%, what do they have in common?  They coached good to great quarterbacks.  They also had defenses that varied in rank from year to year.  

 

 

Table 1. Top Five Active NFL Coaches Win %
Coach	Career Win%	Quarterback
Belichick	0.67	Brady
Arians	0.648	Luck, Palmer
McCarthy	0.645	Favre, Rodgers
Tomlin	0.637	Roethlisberger
Reid	0.602	Mcnabb, Smith

 

 

Some truth to this of course, but Palmer, McNabb and Smith are step below the others.  

[thenorthremembers]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Some truth to this of course, but Palmer, McNabb and Smith are step below the others.  

 

True, but at their best they were/are quarterbacks who were playoff to superbowl caliber and who were effecient at keeping their defense from being pounded into the ground by time of possession.  Honestly, I think McNabb is probably one of the more underrated Quarterbacks in the history of the NFL. 

[C.Biscuit97]

57 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Oh God, this again?   We all have to open our eyes a bit and realize that everything about the NFL game correlates to the Quarterback.   Good coaches have good quarterbacks, look at Belichick's win percentage before Brady, >50%.   Did we miss out on McVay and Phillips?  No we missed out on the 2nd year of the #1 overall pick.

 

Want to know what's different about Carolina's defense this year?   Their stud quarterback isn't hurt and playing like crap like he did in 2016.   Go back to his 2015 season and see how good their defense was then, I'll save you the time...they were 6th overall.  So did McDermott suddenly forget how to coach defense in the last two years or did he end up with a starting quarterback who cant throw the ball well and doesn't pick up third downs?  

 

Defense is irrelevant in the league, almost as irrelevant as coaching.   As of the end of last year these were the top active coaches in terms of win%, what do they have in common?  They coached good to great quarterbacks.  They also had defenses that varied in rank from year to year.  

 

 

Table 1. Top Five Active NFL Coaches Win %
Coach	Career Win%	Quarterback
Belichick	0.67	Brady
Arians	0.648	Luck, Palmer
McCarthy	0.645	Favre, Rodgers
Tomlin	0.637	Roethlisberger
Reid	0.602	Mcnabb, Smith

 

 

 

 

 

Who do you trust to evaluate the qb position right now?  I honestly believe SM loves TT because he is a conservative, defensive coach.  I can see use using our high picks on defensive players and o linemen. It’s not bad but when you have 2 1sts in what was believed to be a strong qb draft, you need to get one.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

16 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who do you trust to evaluate the qb position right now?  I honestly believe SM loves TT because he is a conservative, defensive coach.  I can see use using our high picks on defensive players and o linemen. It’s not bad but when you have 2 1sts in what was believed to be a strong qb draft, you need to get one.

 

 

 

I dont think McProcess loves Tyrod at all.  I think he knew Tyrod was the best option to start the season and with the current record he knows there is a delicate balance to how things should be done right now.  You cant move to Peterman until you are mathematically eliminated or you run the chance of sending a message that was contradictory to the one you've been preaching all season.

 

Right now I am still of the mind that Beane and McDermott understand they have to go and find a Quarterback.   I will trust that until they give me a reason to believe they dont. 

2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

I dont think McProcess loves Tyrod at all.  I think he knew Tyrod was the best option to start the season and with the current record he knows there is a delicate balance to how things should be done right now.  You cant move to Peterman until you are mathematically eliminated or you run the chance of sending a message that was contradictory to the one you've been preaching all season.

 

Right now I am still of the mind that Beane and McDermott understand they have to go and find a Quarterback.   I will trust that until they give me a reason to believe they dont. 

 And I was wrong.

[The Now Moment]

16 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

I believe this too when your an actual proven coach, not a rookie.

It's a different approach and honestly after all of these years, a different direction isn't a bad idea

16 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Belichick has Pioli before he was “Belichick.”  Personally, it seems like too big of a job for one person.  Chip Kelly won 10 games his first 2 seasons. He then got all the power, made stupid moves possibly personality moves like cutting Desean Jackson and trading McCoy, and he promptly got fired.

 

i really don’t know too many first year coaches who have gotten the power SM has. Who is there to check him? Certainly not the GM he essentially hired.

And McDermott has Beane who seem to work together as a team instead of fight each other on decisions like we've had in the past with coaches and gms...that should be a good thing.  

[Captain_Quint]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who do you trust to evaluate the qb position right now?  I honestly believe SM loves TT because he is a conservative, defensive coach.  I can see use using our high picks on defensive players and o linemen. It’s not bad but when you have 2 1sts in what was believed to be a strong qb draft, you need to get one.

 

 

His decision to stick with Tyrod will be his downfall. We've seen it before where a coach falls in love with a particular attribute and puts the blinders on. Edwards had his 'poise'. Manuel had his size and 'untapped potential'. Hamden had his 'chroise'. We've seen it before so don'

 Expect some big change from the hardheaded McDermott. 

Mark my words.