THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Horrible

[GottaRun]

Congrats on making it to the 4th quarter.  I left in the 3rd and the people in our section that usually yell abuse at fans who leave early had already left.  14 years with seasons and I've never walked out in the 3rd quarter.   I'm trying to decide if the worst Bills game I've ever seen was yesterday's game or the 6 - 3 mess in Cleveland. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Good write up and to no surprise the subject is about Tyrod from the posters who replied above.... While Tyrod had an awful game the defense was equally bad and has been for two straight weeks... Tyrod just decided to join the party. Almost allowed 300 yards rushing. 300 yards.

 

Same defense that let the offensive powerhouse New York Jets run for almost 200. 

 

The Dareus trade IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON AT 4-2 was !@#$ing idiotic.

 

 

 

If winning this year was your number one focus, idiotic indeed. I think they came up against problems with Dareus that made them believe he simply couldn't be part of this team, that he wasn't buying in and that showing the others what happens if you have that problem was more important than this year's success.

 

I've got no problem with the move whatsoever, though I wish they could've gotten more for him. His contract and attitude must've made that difficult.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

Shaw I think Peterman would of done better then Tyrod. The book and film is out on Tyrod make him the QB, keep him in the pocket with zero lanes to run. Tyrod is better moving around. Holds ball long, get scared throw to checkdown. Does not take risks. Becoming Captain Checkdown part 2.

 

The way to beat pressure is quick throws something that goes first down or near the sticks. Brees, Brady best QB has this. Beat soo many D cause soo hard to get them soo quick beat the coverage as well. Why might still be very good next few seasons left in them. Plus match up along other things they use.

 

For Tyrod all teams going to do this to him...... Really scared about ahead for him.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[HappyDays]

This will be a long post because I have a lot of thoughts about this game.

 

I’m worried that Rick Dennison is Rex Ryan. He gets handed an offensive unit that was largely productive in the hands of his predecessor. He has the same central players (QB, HB, entire offensive line). He proceeds to dismantle the previous scheme and install a new one entirely which falls flat on its face for most of the year.

 

In 2014 the Bills defense ranked 2nd in DVOA (1st in pass, 12 in rush),  3rd in opponent yards per play, 2nd in opponent points scored by offense. At the end of that season Rex Ryan was fired by the Jets. Jets fans couldn’t wait to see him go. He came to Buffalo and installed his own scheme. In 2015 the Bills defense ranked 24th in DVOA (18th in pass, 30th in rush), 23rd in opponent yards per play,  16th in opponent points scored by offense.

 

2nd to 24th, 3rd to 23rd, 2nd to 16th.

 

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.

 

In 2016 the Bill offense ranked 10th in DVOA (18th in pass, 1st in run), 14th in yards per play, 7th in offensive TDs per game. At the end of that season Rick Dennison was fired by the Broncos. Broncos fans couldn’t wait to see him go. He came to Buffalo and installed his own scheme. So far in 2017, and I am sure these rankings will drop after this week, the Bills offense ranks 21st in DVOA (20th in pass, 22nd in run), 30th in yards per play, 20th in offensive TDs per game.

 

10th to 21st, 14th to 30th, 7th to 20th.

 

Dennison didn’t inherit an offense that started quite as high as Rex’s inherited defense did, but the drop has been just as precipitous.

 

When I watch Dennison’s offense I don’t see anything geared towards our personnel. Maybe you could make the case that Tyrod was destined to regress no matter what. But Shady? The run blocking? 1st in rush offense DVOA to 22nd. 1st in rush YPA to 23rd.

 

And who needs these stats anyways, anyone watching the games knows the offense is substantially worse than it was last year at every level.

 

When I watch Dennison’s offense operate, I am watching an offense that looks like it was built for Nate Peterman, not Tyrod. But the coaching staff is adamant that Tyrod is the starter. Unless I’m misremembering Tyrod has exactly one read-option QB keeper in the past 2 games and it was an 18 yard gain. When Tyrod picked apart the Seahawks and Dolphins secondary, Anthony Lynn had him rolling out of the pocket. The offense was designed at least in part around his movement.

 

Now maybe Dennison/McDermott have just decided this offensive system works, and they’re going to institute it regardless of the personnel we have now because they’re going to go out and get their guys that fit the system.

 

But isn’t that what we fired Rex for?

 

It is only year one so maybe they’ll be more successful in year two, more than Rex was. But it’s not like they have some powerhouse offense in years past that you can point to. Even Rex had that.

 

But I’ve come away from the last game thinking Peterman should be starting. I know it won’t happen but why trot Tyrod out there? They’re not going to suddenly run an offense that suits him. I think there’s a higher chance than people think that Tyrod goes to another team next year and does well, a team that tells him we’re going to design our offense around you and actually does.

 

Maybe Dennison’s system isn’t trash. Well the run game I can’t think of any excuses. But the pass game, the only proof we’ll have that it can work is if Peterman is running it. He’s the anti-Tyrod in many ways and we’re running an anti-Tyrod system. What are we trying to accomplish here? He’s a pro-ready QB who has consistently impressed. He played well at training camp, he played well in preseason, he played well in limited action yesterday.

 

I don’t see Tyrod coming back next year. Why would he want to? Why would Dennison want him?

 

A quick note on the defense. I believe coaching can be excused there because we just have a major talent deficiency. The 94 yard rush-only drive proved it. There is no amount of coaching that causes that to happen. You either stop the guy running straight ahead or you don’t. Kyle Williams is done. Our LBs are bad. Hughes is the only guy you definitely keep moving forward. McDermott rebuilt the secondary in one season and I have faith he can rebuild the front 7 quickly. That part of the process I still trust.

[Thurman#1]

2 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Good write-up again, Shaw.

 

I have to believe this is Dennison trying to drill it into Tyrod to stay in the pocket and make quick passes.  Problem is that this is not the type of QB Tyrod is; just look at last season, he prefers to not stay in the pocket.  In the pocket, Tyrod holds on to the ball too long and does not trust the route or receivers.  Dennison is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, kind of like what Rex did last year with the D.  Not a new take, I know, but still applicable.

 

I think at this point, if Tyrod is the starting QB like McDermott insists, the offensive game plan needs to change in a major way.  More play action and scrambling, and less pocket passing, which will allow Tyrod to do what he does best.  Right now, I see Dennison's offense and Tyrod's abilities as being completely incompatible.

 

 

 

Yeah, I think that's a reasonable take.

 

Thing is, before the season, asked what a QB had to do in his system, McDermott said he had to throw successfully from the pocket. IMHO they've been giving Tyrod a shot at being the long-term guy, the guy who can throw from the pocket. You may well be right that for Tyrod's success they need to stop doing that so much. But if that's true, it may mean that he can't be McDermott's guy long-term.

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

This will be a long post because I have a lot of thoughts about this game.

 

I’m worried that Rick Dennison is Rex Ryan. He gets handed an offensive unit that was largely productive in the hands of his predecessor. He has the same central players (QB, HB, entire offensive line). He proceeds to dismantle the previous scheme and install a new one entirely which falls flat on its face for most of the year.

 

In 2014 the Bills defense ranked 2nd in DVOA (1st in pass, 12 in rush),  3rd in opponent yards per play, 2nd in opponent points scored by offense. At the end of that season Rex Ryan was fired by the Jets. Jets fans couldn’t wait to see him go. He came to Buffalo and installed his own scheme. In 2015 the Bills defense ranked 24th in DVOA (18th in pass, 30th in rush), 23rd in opponent yards per play,  16th in opponent points scored by offense.

 

2nd to 24th, 3rd to 23rd, 2nd to 16th.

 

Stop me if you’ve heard this one before.

 

In 2016 the Bill offense ranked 10th in DVOA (18th in pass, 1st in run), 14th in yards per play, 7th in offensive TDs per game. At the end of that season Rick Dennison was fired by the Broncos. Broncos fans couldn’t wait to see him go. He came to Buffalo and installed his own scheme. So far in 2017, and I am sure these rankings will drop after this week, the Bills offense ranks 21st in DVOA (20th in pass, 22nd in run), 30th in yards per play, 20th in offensive TDs per game.

 

10th to 21st, 14th to 30th, 7th to 20th.

 

 

Thoughtful post, Happy. IMHO there's a major difference between Ryan and McDermott other than the fact that the defense Ryan took over was terrific while the offense McDermott inherited was pretty decent. 

 

And that difference is that Ryan promised he could turn it all around the first year, where McDermott has just talked process and winning in the long term. That's huge, IMHO. 

[SoCal Deek]

Shaw

 

I have to agree...you should have stopped at horrible.  Drop the microphone and get off the stage.

 

Let's pray there's more to write next week! 

[Happy]

16 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

But if that's true, it may mean that he can't be McDermott's guy long-term.

 

I'd take it a step further and say Tyrod can't be McDermott's guy in the near term, as well.  Either the offensive system has to change, or the QB has to be changed (read start Peterman).  I'm not a hit the panic button, start Peterman guy, but I don't see any success going forward by ignoring this situation continuing status quo.  To no one's surprise, the defense has got us to 5-4.  When the defense fails, such as in the last two games, we see the disastrous results.  IMO, if the offense would have clicked just a little bit more, I think we would be sitting at 7-2 at this point.

[HappyDays]

29 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Thoughtful post, Happy. IMHO there's a major difference between Ryan and McDermott other than the fact that the defense Ryan took over was terrific while the offense McDermott inherited was pretty decent. 

 

And that difference is that Ryan promised he could turn it all around the first year, where McDermott has just talked process and winning in the long term. That's huge, IMHO. 

 

This a very good point. In a lot of ways McDermott and Beane are the polar opposite of Rex and Whaley. Rex bragged, creates distractions, made bold predictions, promised quick changes. Whaley spent draft picks like they were worth nothing, sold out the future for the present, racked up the salary cap. I like the slow methodical approach better and I guess I just have to be patient. If I’m being honest with myself if we were say 3-6 right now the last 2 games wouldn’t have upset me as much. It’s the inevitable mid season Bills collapse that has me reeling.

[billsfan60]

Thanks Shaw,(I think).

[WhoTom]

Thanks for the catharsis, Shaw. Those few paragraphs were more entertaining than the entire game.

[Gugny]

3 hours ago, jaclynrea21 said:

Is this true?

 

No, Cousin Eddie.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I'd take it a step further and say Tyrod can't be McDermott's guy in the near term, as well.  Either the offensive system has to change, or the QB has to be changed (read start Peterman).  I'm not a hit the panic button, start Peterman guy, but I don't see any success going forward by ignoring this situation continuing status quo.  To no one's surprise, the defense has got us to 5-4.  When the defense fails, such as in the last two games, we see the disastrous results.  IMO, if the offense would have clicked just a little bit more, I think we would be sitting at 7-2 at this point.

 

 

Yeah, I don't see him every succeeding as a pocket guy, so I agree that he won't be their near-term guy either. But I think they wanted to give him a chance. They pretty much have, and for all but the crazed fanboys and the ones still hoping he'll change, the results are pretty much in.

 

As coach, McDermott wants to win every game with a record like 5-2 and every 5-4. My guess is that soon we won't be a team with a chance anymore, and McDermott the personnel guy who works with the GM will start to take over and we'll start to see decisions being made with a different focus.

[GoBills808]

15 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, I don't see him every succeeding as a pocket guy, so I agree that he won't be their near-term guy either. But I think they wanted to give him a chance. They pretty much have, and for all but the crazed fanboys and the ones still hoping he'll change, the results are pretty much in.

 

As coach, McDermott wants to win every game with a record like 5-2 and every 5-4. My guess is that soon we won't be a team with a chance anymore, and McDermott the personnel guy who works with the GM will start to take over and we'll start to see decisions being made with a different focus.

I see zero incentive to make a change at QB:

 

1. This year was always a mulligan. 5-2 was the proverbial cherry on top of a season destined for .500-dom from the jump.

 

2. .500 may actually sneak a wildcard, and THAT would truly be the cherry. Taylor can be a .500 QB.

 

3. I doubt a rookie HC and GM want to deal with a QB controversy, especially over a guy (maybe two) who they don't have long-term plans for. Don't need the headache.

 

4. If there IS any doubt in McDermott's mind as to whether or not he wants Taylor going forward, he's going to want to see him play the full 16+. And if his mind IS made up one way or the other, giving him the hook for a rookie isn't in the cards, especially when the Bills are probably going to be teetering in wildcard territory the rest of the way.

[transplantbillsfan]

5 hours ago, yungmack said:

I sort of figured you'd just write "horrible" and leave it at that, take the night off.

 

I'm about to seriously geek out, but I really thought there was going to be a reference to Hamlet act 1 scene V with the Ghost's speech. I'm thinking the Kenneth Brannaugh version, in particular.

[BadLandsMeanie]

We have come full circle Shaw back to the point where your colum is better than the game.

 

I had a bad feeling before this game but man I  had no inkling it could be THAT bad.

 

I don't understand how things went this wrong so fast.

Especially because everything I thought they were, they are not. Not scrappy, not sound fundamentals, not smart, not well coached, not physical, not knowing the assignments, none of it. It just evaporated so completely I wonder if it was even there to begin with.

 

Do you have any idea how things could crumble so bad so fast?

I could only come up with a couple possibilities.

 

 Dareus would certainly have helped but his leaving couldn't make THAT big of a difference.

 

I am wondering about his Hatian connection though. Maybe there is something to Voo Doo after all. That team looked cursed.

 

Or, I am wondering if the light bulb finally went on for Tyrod when they got rid of Dareus.

 

Woods, Watkins, Gilmore, Darby, and then Dareus. Maybe when Dareus went, Tyrod finally realized that they are getting rid of all the good players. And that if he wants to stick around Buffalo he had better start sucking and he better start sucking fast.

 

Now he can only hope that he didn't start too late and that he is sucking bad enough to save his job.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by BadLandsMeanie

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

I see zero incentive to make a change at QB:

 

1. This year was always a mulligan. 5-2 was the proverbial cherry on top of a season destined for .500-dom from the jump.

 

2. .500 may actually sneak a wildcard, and THAT would truly be the cherry. Taylor can be a .500 QB.

 

3. I doubt a rookie HC and GM want to deal with a QB controversy, especially over a guy (maybe two) who they don't have long-term plans for. Don't need the headache.

 

4. If there IS any doubt in McDermott's mind as to whether or not he wants Taylor going forward, he's going to want to see him play the full 16+. And if his mind IS made up one way or the other, giving him the hook for a rookie isn't in the cards, especially when the Bills are probably going to be teetering in wildcard territory the rest of the way.

 

 

 

A QB controversy isn't a particularly desireable outcome.

 

But it's no less desireable than not having any franchise QB. When McDermott was asked what a QB needed to do he said he needed to be able to work from the pocket.

 

I know it won't happen as long as Brady is there, but would Belichick worry about a QB controversy? We already know the answer from the Brady - Bledsoe situation. Tough, confident coaches just see that as another situation to handle. They don't avoid gathering helpful information because it might possibly create a problem down the road that the coach could handle anyway.

 

If there is any doubt in McDermott's mind about Tyrod he likely would figure you can pretty much get in 13 or 14 games nearly all of what you could get in 16. Of course, if what they're seeing in practice from Peterman tells them he's not ready, it's all academic.But if that's what they were seeing, I don't think they'd have put him in last week.

 

Far from certain they stay in contention, I'd guess, even in this weak AFC. I think the Raiders are primed for a run and the Bills are likely to lose more than you seem to expect. We'll see, though.

[transplantbillsfan]

53 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

A QB controversy isn't a particularly desireable outcome.

 

But it's no less desireable than not having any franchise QB. When McDermott was asked what a QB needed to do he said he needed to be able to work from the pocket.

 

I know it won't happen as long as Brady is there, but would Belichick worry about a QB controversy? We already know the answer from the Brady - Bledsoe situation. Tough, confident coaches just see that as another situation to handle. They don't avoid gathering helpful information because it might possibly create a problem down the road that the coach could handle anyway.

 

If there is any doubt in McDermott's mind about Tyrod he likely would figure you can pretty much get in 13 or 14 games nearly all of what you could get in 16. Of course, if what they're seeing in practice from Peterman tells them he's not ready, it's all academic.But if that's what they were seeing, I don't think they'd have put him in last week.

 

Far from certain they stay in contention, I'd guess, even in this weak AFC. I think the Raiders are primed for a run and the Bills are likely to lose more than you seem to expect. We'll see, though.

 

Thurm, honest question here, why is it that your tendency is to consistently post a ton more when the bills lose than when they win?

 

And that's not a hyperbolic statement. I just looked through your recent posting history to make sure of it.

 

40+ posts since the Jets game and "little here... little there" otherwise.

 

Just strange.

 

Hookers and blow celebrations every time we win?

Edited November 14, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, yungmack said:

I sort of figured you'd just write "horrible" and leave it at that, take the night off.

 

7 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I seriously considered doing exactly that.   

 

I really meant it when I said there's nothing to say that's why I wrote some of the stupid stuff I wrote.  

 

I was thinking just this clip from Waterboy would suffice:

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Thurm, honest question here, why is it that your tendency is to consistently post a ton more when the bills lose than when they win?

 

And that's not a hyperbolic statement. I just looked through your recent posting history to make sure of it.

 

40+ posts since the Jets game and "little here... little there" otherwise.

 

Just strange.

 

Hookers and blow celebrations every time we win?

 

 

Why would you bother looking up my history? Honestly, maybe you should think about me a little - maybe a lot - less.

 

Having gotten that out of the way, the honest answer is that some weeks I'm busy and some weeks I'm not so much. It's that simple.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Thurman#1

[GETTOTHE50]

If no one is open, then someone needs to make a play- in this case, the QB.

 

you can't check down all game. You gotta be able to thread the needle a couple of times. Put it where only the receiver can catch it. Tyrod doesn't believe he can throw it into tight spaces.