Virgil Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 The question of what's more important, talent or scheme, is something I've debated a lot during our playoff drought. The teams that have both are your repeat contenders. But sometimes having one instead of the other, is enough to get you by. I look at what the Rams are doing right now and I think they are good example of how scheme can hold you back. Goff looked like a bust more often than not since drafted but now looks like a bonafide number one pick. Yes, they added receivers, whom he hardly used at the beginning of the season, but now they are all clicking. Do I think that Goff is a top 15 QB? No. But do I think they've got some momentum and their HC has created a system that brings out their strengths? Yes. Even Gurley is finally looking like the halfback they drafted with limitless potential. And then there is the obvious call out, Woods and Watkins. Just look at what Woods did today with his 170+ receiving yards against the Texans. He never came close to that here. I think the Rams are probably 35% Talent, 65% Scheme right now, which is enough to get them into the playoffs. The problem with being scheme based is that, once figured out, can quickly break everything apart. With most of our losing seasons after strong starts, it appears the Bills got the advantage while opponents didn't have much film on their new scheme. But, once the halfway mark hits, we get figured out and we don't have the talent to overcome it. I truly believe that in the Fitz and Edwards strong start years. This year is harder because our offense has more talent this year than those, which is where I believe we have a weak scheme and a QB who just reads the field differently that a strong QB. I like TT, but the college open throws and lack of trust in his receivers to throw it up or on the breaks is hurting us too much. There's no excuse for this offense to only score 3 points with our weapons against the Saints, especially with little pass rush. Our defensive scheme is similar to our offense, but more frustrating because it seems to be obvious to everyone but McDermott what to do. Our guys can't get pressure with 4, and barely with 5. But McDermott refuses to change it up and sticks to his scheme, waiting for his players to figure it out. The problem is, we are losing games and getting blown off the field defensively for 3 out of 4 straight weeks. Our scheme doesn't fit our players and the talent isn't their minus 3 or 4 guys. As much as I hate to use them as a reference, but the Pats had poor talent in many of their dynasty years, but had a scheme that maximized the little talent they had. On the year they had the most talent, they almost went 19-0. The Chiefs are another great example of mixing scheme and talent. I don't know what the answer is for the Bills. We've seen what the same defensive players did under Schwartz vs Rex. We've seen what this rushing attack did under Lynn. So is it really all about coaching? Is the talent level really the most important factor? For us this season, I think we were 80% scheme and 20% talent, and the scheme's been figured out. So now, our talent is getting exposed. I just hope "The Process" can adjust to the players we have and find a way to keep opposing teams guessing. Because not every FA or rookie is going to be a hit and we can't just roll over because the talent is adjusting to the scheme. The coach needs to adapt too. Coughlin is the best example I can think of with this in recent years. Either way, here's hoping things work out in another year of a wasted 5-2 start.
Big Turk Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 There aren't many schemes that can help when you have a lack of talent once teams figure out how to attack it.
The Frankish Reich Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 1 minute ago, matter2003 said: There aren't many schemes that can help when you have a lack of talent once teams figure out how to attack it. And that seems to be a trend the last few seasons. Every year a less talented team or two starts strong. The new CBA cut back significantly on offseason workouts, and preseason games are now almost all about filling those #40 - #53 roster spots. So the first few games reward teams that play with intensity and/or stick with a scheme, not getting caught out of position and giving up big plays. But by the middle of the season, talent starts to win out, and teams like the Bills start to slip. Even with that in mind, this year's slip has been rather astonishing in how quickly it happened.
jkeerie Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Virgil said: I don't know what the answer is for the Bills. We've seen what the same defensive players did under Schwartz vs Rex. We've seen what this rushing attack did under Lynn. So is it really all about coaching? Is the talent level really the most important factor? For us this season, I think we were 80% scheme and 20% talent, and the scheme's been figured out. So now, our talent is getting exposed. I just hope "The Process" can adjust to the players we have and find a way to keep opposing teams guessing. Because not every FA or rookie is going to be a hit and we can't just roll over because the talent is adjusting to the scheme. The coach needs to adapt too. Coughlin is the best example I can think of with this in recent years. After the Bills got blown out by the Jets, we all wanted to see how the team responded. I was particularly interested in how the coaching staff would respond. Today, we saw. Very disappointing to say the least. The Saints are an excellent team. In truth, I was hoping for a Bills win, but not expecting one. What I didn't expect though was this thorough of a beating. It seems the coaching staff learned nothing from the Jets game. They refuse to make any adjustments in personnel or scheme. It gets worse with every play and after halftime. What talent you do have must fit the scheme you are trying to run. If it doesn't, and no adjustments are made, you get the result we saw today. So...if the coaches are going to stubbornly stand by their schemes, then I'd like to see them start the guys they drafted to see if they fit. If they do, they could enjoy success this season. If they don't, then you've just added more draft needs to your list. Edited November 13, 2017 by jkeerie
NewEra Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 Nice post Virgil. I think the talent is low. We have to rebuild the trenches and get a real LB core. Other than addressing the QB position I hope all of our picks and resources are used to bolster the OL and DL along with MLB. We need a MLB that can stay on the field every down and lead this defense. Preston Brown is not that guy If we don’t take a QB first, I’d be happy with a stud MLB. Best available along the front 7 should be the pick if they aren’t in a slot to pick a QB.
Foreigner Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 This is really a complex issue with maybe no answer or with these coaches unable to figure it out. It has been said the NFL is a passing league and you can,t win without throwing the ball down the field. That theory went out the window either a little or a lot by what the Saints did. 24 straight run plays is unheard of in the NFL for whatever (30 or 40 years) and yet we have seen like what Robert Woods, Chris Hogan etc have done since they have left the Bills. The Pats organization always does well, the Bills the opposite, so scheme has to be a big part of it. Basically the same talent now as 5-2, but the last two teams have figured out the schemes and the coaching staff has not been able to adjust. Coaches and GMs who almost always make the playoffs do, coaches that don,t get fired.
K-9 Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 Talent trumps scheme. Always has, always will. That's not to say that once in a while a less talented team can out-scheme a more talented team and get a win. But that is the exception to the rule. Upsets happen all the time. There are just so many other variables at play than just talent and scheme on any given day, on any given play.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 We now have talent on the receiver end, so lets scratch that one off of the list.
Dr. K Posted November 13, 2017 Posted November 13, 2017 (edited) The offensive players they had last season scored 25 points per game and led the league in rushing. The offensive line was among the best in the league. The new regime changed the scheme, got ride of the skill position players except for TT and Shady, and suddenly they can't do anything right.They think MIke Tolbert is a fine backup halfback to McCoy. They fired an great O Line coach and put in an incompetent. So now they are going to draft their own players and everything will go great. We'll see. Edited November 13, 2017 by Dr. K
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