Team again quit on McDermott

[section122]

27 minutes ago, hemma said:

I think it was difficult for the Defense to maintain any level of intensity in the 2nd half when they see:

- 3 plays (int)

- 3 plays (out)

- 3 plays (out)

 

Offense under Taylor had the ball for a whopping 3:44 in the 2nd half and did worse than nothing. 

Saints during that part of the game had it 21:23.

 

IMO, they gave up on the offense doing their job.

 

I hate you for making me go through game film to refute this point 

 

The Bills and Saints each had 4 minute drives to start the game.  The Bills then had a 2 minute drive.  The Saints then marched to the Bills 9 before fumbling the ball.  The Bills had a 3 minute drive stopped by a penalty before punting.  The Saints then had a 5 minute td drive.

 

The defense never showed up on Sunday.  Before you get upset, the offense didn't either.  Trying to pin this game all on the shoulders of Tyrod is asinine.  It was a total team let down including Taylor.  The Saints didn't punt once!  Maintain any intensity in the second half?  They let the Saints go on a TD drive right at half where the Saints faced one 3rd down!  This suck was a total team effort.  How come nobody says the offense laid down because they realized the defense couldn't get any stops?  Because it is a dumb thing to say.  Both sides of the ball should play hard all game long regardless of score or outcome.  Not doing so is their own fault and both sides share plenty of blame for this. 

[Jauronimo]

26 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

so when they are letting guys walk don't cry about who is leaving they have proven not good enough physically and mentally

McD and Beane could cut Walter Payton in his prime and ship Tom Brady out for some baseball cards and I would be reading all about how these guys obviously suck.

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, CardinalScotts said:

so when they are letting guys walk don't cry about who is leaving they have proven not good enough physically and mentally

 

Or process that reality that character is built.........and build it from within your roster.

 

The Patriots team that Belichick took over from Pete Carroll was no hard nosed bunch........Willie McGinnest who is held up as an example of The Patriot Way was seen as a gigantic malingering underachiever and he wasn't alone.

 

BB built that rag-tag mis-matched bunch of parts into a unit.........he didn't rely on some pie-in-sky principled gameplan of getting only guys that were easy to manage.  

 

Eventually he EARNED the right to pick and choose his parts........but McD insisted on trading the horse for a cart and a 6th round pick.

[BADOLBILZ]

54 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Should be easy enough to put names on this, if someone has the courage to watch the All-22 of that drive.  The tape don't lie, we'll be able to see who the quitters are.

 

For me......I'm tired of blaming the players.

 

I think there is more quitting going on league wide because players are weighing the value of banging heads for lost causes...........perhaps I am projecting.......but to the eye it seems pretty obvious.

 

The way to prevent quitting is to keep your players encouraged about the prospects of winning, looking good and subsequently making more money while they can.

 

Now that pain is no longer seen as temporary in the pain/glory scenario......the days of players being all-in for being the grist for the mill for the flour of a cake to be made later may be over.

 

If so.......McD came off the assembly line already obsolete.

 

 

 

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For me......I'm tired of blaming the players.

 

I think there is more quitting going on league wide because players are weighing the value of banging heads for lost causes...........perhaps I am projecting.......but to the eye it seems pretty obvious.

 

The way to prevent quitting is to keep your players encouraged about the prospects of winning, looking good and subsequently making more money while they can.

 

Now that pain is no longer seen as temporary in the pain/glory scenario......the days of players being all-in for being the grist for the mill for the flour of a cake to be made later may be over.

 

If so.......McD came off the assembly line already obsolete.

 

 

 

I think it is too soon for this.....you have to give a first year (who is in his first year) head coach time to actually put his team together.......

 

In all honestly this team may have won more games then it should have.....that is a real possibiity.   What I want to see now is how McD reacts to this....I think one more D bad showing he fire a coordinator

[Coach Tuesday]

4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

What McD was effectively saying in trading or choosing not to retain the players he did was that he couldn't win with those guys.

 

A cursory glance at the records of the teams that acquired the young talented veterans the Bills jettisoned does not seem to support that conclusion.

 

I wasn't a fan of Whaley as a GM but as a scout, well, this regime did him a huge favor by showcasing his hand-picked talent elsewhere.  His scouting resume has been boosted big time this season.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

The first half of the season was an illusion. Games were won with smoke and mirrors, not with talent. The smoke blew away and the mirror shattered. This is who the Bills are.

 

....the fast start outta the gate caught many by surprise IMO, probably the coaches as well......it's a transitional year where they expected to stay reasonably competitive with players they have to work with (additions and deletions so noted) but gearing up for 2018 draft and possibly (?) some FA signings.....pretty big core of prognosticators here and in the media citing 5-11 or 6-10 max.....5-2 start created "irrational exuberance" and prognostications quickly changed (Optimism 101)...and now reality bites.......the onus is directly on McD and his coaches to make something, ANYTHING work with the personnel here because the quality shelves are bare out there....stay tuned..........

Edited November 14, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Doc]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The easy answer is the HC for casting out Dareus?

 

Seems like every 5-7 years we have to go thru this "one man can't possibly make a difference" phase when it comes to run defense.

 

I don't know how much more obvious it can be than what you saw in Jax and Buff games the past couple weeks.

 

They effectively swapped run defenses when Dareus changed sides.

 

I can't disagree that jettisoning Dareus wasn't a mistake.  But I don't think the players quit or McD has lost them because of it.  No one really said much about him leaving. 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For me......I'm tired of blaming the players.

 

I think there is more quitting going on league wide because players are weighing the value of banging heads for lost causes...........perhaps I am projecting.......but to the eye it seems pretty obvious.

 

The way to prevent quitting is to keep your players encouraged about the prospects of winning, looking good and subsequently making more money while they can.

 

Now that pain is no longer seen as temporary in the pain/glory scenario......the days of players being all-in for being the grist for the mill for the flour of a cake to be made later may be over.

 

If so.......McD came off the assembly line already obsolete.

 

 

 

What you have failed to accept when the wrestling coach took over was that this assignment was a major rebuild job. That was the plan. Half he roster has already been turned over and next year another large portion of the roster is going to be turned over. The accumulation of future picks wasn't done for the purpose of immediate help and the jettisoning of salaries wasn't done to add to the roster because it took away from the roster in order to use the new cap space for future acquisitions. 

 

The last two games were to put it mildly disturbing. But the reality was that this was an overachieving team. The notion that McDermott's job security is in the near future in jeopardy is far fetched and simply silly talk. The owner agreed to McDermott's plan of rebuilding the roster with the understanding that it was going to be an arduous process and time consuming process. If you expected immediate results then you are being wildly unrealistic. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

What you have failed to accept when the wrestling coach took over was that this assignment was a major rebuild job. That was the plan. Half he roster has already been turned over and next year another large portion of the roster is going to be turned over. The accumulation of future picks wasn't done for the purpose of immediate help and the jettisoning of salaries wasn't done to add to the roster because it took away from the roster in order to use the new cap space for future acquisitions. 

 

The last two games were to put it mildly disturbing. But the reality was that this was an overachieving team. The notion that McDermott's job security is in the near future in jeopardy is far fetched and simply silly talk. The owner agreed to McDermott's plan of rebuilding the roster with the understanding that it was going to be an arduous process and time consuming process. If you expected immediate results then you are being wildly unrealistic. 

 

Here is a question for you John:

 

When did McD ever say that this was a "major rebuild"?

 

Let me help you.......he didn't.

 

One of the great themes of Bills-apologism is creating defensive narratives that don't actually reflect anything that the regime has even said.

 

Seems to me that this process started out as one thing and is moving like water thru the path of least resistance.........making it much more of a direction than a plan.  

 

And you know what YOU fail to accept?    That THIS is something they have ACTUALLY said.  

 

It's just a direction not a plan or a major rebuild.

 

It's turned into a more challenging job because key players simply haven't proven to be quite as subordinate as McD wanted.

 

Other teams are winning with these players that McD didn't believe he could..........which might cause a skeptic to wonder about "the process".

 

 

 

 

 

[GreggTX]

They didn't quit. They have no one to plug the middle with Dareus gone. If other teams can run at will, we'll have to throw a lot to try to catch up. We can't be putting games on Tyrod's shoulders. I believe getting rid of Marcell was the right move, long term. For the rest of 2017, however, the wins won't come so easily

[Tcali]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 4:23 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

Doug Marrone is a good Head Coach.  His teams play hard.  And always seem to have punishing, dominating defenses.  If he and Whaley could have got on with each other the drought would be over by now.  They had the team on the right path.

I cant blame marrone for getting out.He knew he was dealing with a loser organization that throws away draft picks to move up and pick a QB that everyone in Florida knew sucked. he made the correct decision.

Marrone did the best he could with garbage QBs here.  

[mannc]

1 hour ago, Tcali said:

I cant blame marrone for getting out.He knew he was dealing with a loser organization that throws away draft picks to move up and pick a QB that everyone in Florida knew sucked. he made the correct decision.

Marrone did the best he could with garbage QBs here.  

I think you’re a little confused about how the Bills acquired EJ.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Tcali said:

I cant blame marrone for getting out.He knew he was dealing with a loser organization that throws away draft picks to move up and pick a QB that everyone in Florida knew sucked. he made the correct decision.

Marrone did the best he could with garbage QBs here.  

 

Marrone is a turd who inherited a great defense and good pieces on offense and the 4th overall pick with the Jags.  He left the Bills because he saw Orton retired, had an out-clause, and thought he had the Jets job lined up.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Doc

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Here is a question for you John:

 

When did McD ever say that this was a "major rebuild"?

 

Let me help you.......he didn't.

 

One of the great themes of Bills-apologism is creating defensive narratives that don't actually reflect anything that the regime has even said.

 

Seems to me that this process started out as one thing and is moving like water thru the path of least resistance.........making it much more of a direction than a plan.  

 

And you know what YOU fail to accept?    That THIS is something they have ACTUALLY said.  

 

It's just a direction not a plan or a major rebuild.

 

It's turned into a more challenging job because key players simply haven't proven to be quite as subordinate as McD wanted.

 

Other teams are winning with these players that McD didn't believe he could..........which might cause a skeptic to wonder about "the process".

 

 

 

 

 

How about using some common sense. McDermott/Beane haven't explicitly stated that they are rebuilding the roster while their actions clearly demonstrate that they are rebuilding the roster. This regime has jettisoned players such as Watkins.Darby and Ragland and getting picks for them. They traded down in the first round and got next year's first round pick from KC. You are too busy creating your fictitious scenario to peddle to the frustrated crowd instead of seeing what is being done. How about making sense to what is actually being done instead of lending credence to meaningless coach/speak and GM/speak. When you start to base your arguments on the robotic responses that are part and parcel to the business then you are naïve beyond one's imagination. 

 

What's next? You are going to believe Putin that he didn't meddle into our elections because he repeatedly says he didn't? That would be so Trumpian of you. 

My advice to you is simple: Watch what is being done and then make your judgments. If you believe what is literally being said by this regime then you are descending into the Forrest Gump territory of simplicity! 

 

This is plain and simple a rebuild. Do you need a billboard to advertise the obvious? Before you start pontificating it might be helpful to open your eyes. Give me a freaking break!

[Coach Tuesday]

25 minutes ago, JohnC said:

How about using some common sense. McDermott/Beane haven't explicitly stated that they are rebuilding the roster while their actions clearly demonstrate that they are rebuilding the roster. This regime has jettisoned players such as Watkins.Darby and Ragland and getting picks for them. They traded down in the first round and got next year's first round pick from KC. You are too busy creating your fictitious scenario to peddle to the frustrated crowd instead of seeing what is being done. How about making sense to what is actually being done instead of lending credence to meaningless coach/speak and GM/speak. When you start to base your arguments on the robotic responses that are part and parcel to the business then you are naïve beyond one's imagination. 

 

What's next? You are going to believe Putin that he didn't meddle into our elections because he repeatedly says he didn't? That would be so Trumpian of you. 

My advice to you is simple: Watch what is being done and then make your judgments. If you believe what is literally being said by this regime then you are descending into the Forrest Gump territory of simplicity! 

 

This is plain and simple a rebuild. Do you need a billboard to advertise the obvious? Before you start pontificating it might be helpful to open your eyes. Give me a freaking break!

 

The problem John is that rebuilds shouldn't be done this way.  The front office is now scrambling to plug the leaks that it elected to spring.  This team badly needs a #2RB, quality WRs, another decent corner, and run-stopping DTs and LBs.  That's precisely what they've traded away.  BADOL is right that a better approach would've been managing the talent on hand - there was no need to purge all of it in the name of "culture."  McBeane went full Pol Pot on this roster and the players have stopped buying in.

 

When you consider that this team could've had DeShaun Watson throwing to Woods and Watkins, it's just too much to take.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The problem John is that rebuilds shouldn't be done this way.  The front office is now scrambling to plug the leaks that it elected to spring.  This team badly needs a #2RB, quality WRs, another decent corner, and run-stopping DTs and LBs.  That's precisely what they've traded away.  BADOL is right that a better approach would've been managing the talent on hand - there was no need to purge all of it in the name of "culture."  McBeane went full Pol Pot on this roster and the players have stopped buying in.

 

When you consider that this team could've had DeShaun Watson throwing to Woods and Watkins, it's just too much to take.

The mistake that you and the irascible Badol are making is that you are over-evaluating the roster that this regime inherited from Whaley. In my view it wasn't a playoff team, or if it was it was a marginal wild-card contending team. If that is your goal then the patchwork approach that Whaley took was a reasonable strategy to take. That's not what I want. McDermott came in to not only rebuild the roster and how it was structured but to also rebuild the organization. Under no circumstances is that a quick fix task.

 

My criticism of Badol's perspective is not that it is wrong to have a different opinion on how to proceed but it is his unwillingness to acknowledge that there is a rationality to the rebuild approach and that rationality is being acted on. He doesn't have to agree with the approach but it is disingenuous to not see what is obviously going on here. It is an in your face rebuild job. What's obvious to me is evidently not obvious to him. 

 

With respect to the highlighted area regarding the qb who on this board has argued more strenuously than I for a selection of a qb (Mahomes/Watson) than I. If this new regime doesn't use a high pick on a qb this year then I will become a scathing critic. 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, JohnC said:

How about using some common sense. McDermott/Beane haven't explicitly stated that they are rebuilding the roster while their actions clearly demonstrate that they are rebuilding the roster. This regime has jettisoned players such as Watkins.Darby and Ragland and getting picks for them. They traded down in the first round and got next year's first round pick from KC. You are too busy creating your fictitious scenario to peddle to the frustrated crowd instead of seeing what is being done. How about making sense to what is actually being done instead of lending credence to meaningless coach/speak and GM/speak. When you start to base your arguments on the robotic responses that are part and parcel to the business then you are naïve beyond one's imagination. 

 

What's next? You are going to believe Putin that he didn't meddle into our elections because he repeatedly says he didn't? That would be so Trumpian of you. 

My advice to you is simple: Watch what is being done and then make your judgments. If you believe what is literally being said by this regime then you are descending into the Forrest Gump territory of simplicity! 

 

This is plain and simple a rebuild. Do you need a billboard to advertise the obvious? Before you start pontificating it might be helpful to open your eyes. Give me a freaking break!

 

That's fine.......keep reading tea-leaves without regard to anything they say.  

 

The tea leaves suggested there was no way Rex would be fired at this time last year.......tea leaves alone are not a good indicator.

 

The process isn't a 5 year plan.........major rebuilds don't work out to well for the people who start them........ and you are way off the mark if you think that even Sean McDermott believes he has enough time for that.

 

His mistake might be thinking that trajectory in year 2 won't matter because he got consent from Terry Pegula to make trades.

 

Terry Pegula doesn't understand pro sports.......he hires people, empowers them and then fires them if he feels dissatisfied.  

 

 No tea leaves necessary he has been firing people with great frequency for not succeeding in two pro sports.   It's simply not the same as an endorsement from the Mara or Rooney families because those families know the game.   They don't empower you like Pegula's but they understand what they are getting into much more.

 

If this team is eating the tailpipe next year and the talented young Bills players McD said he couldn't win with are continuing to be key components of winning teams elsewhere...........and other things........like Watson and Mahomes are looking like franchise QB's while you are still fishing for one.........well, let's just say that McD has created a large decision footprint via bold moves.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

McD justified benching Tyrod as follows: "We were made to be better than 5-4."

 

The way I read that: McBeane promised the Pegulas that the team would be competitive this season.

 

The rebuild narrative may or may not be correct - but I don't think it was sold to the Pegulas that way.  They were told that the team would make aggressive moves for the future AND would also be competitive this year.  Very, very dangerous of McBeane if that's what was said.

[teef]

4 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

McD justified benching Tyrod as follows: "We were made to be better than 5-4."

 

The way I read that: McBeane promised the Pegulas that the team would be competitive this season.

 

The rebuild narrative may or may not be correct - but I don't think it was sold to the Pegulas that way.  They were told that the team would make aggressive moves for the future AND would also be competitive this year.  Very, very dangerous of McBeane if that's what was said.

i'd have a tough time believing that anyone promised the pegulas the team would be competitive this season.  i think we all knew, especially after the trades, that it wasn't so much about this season, (or even next).  i assume the pegulas and staff see this as a long term project, and any success this year was more or less lucky.