Blame Dennison if You Want, But it's Not the System

[Ayjent]

On 11/13/2017 at 1:45 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

Indeed and I don't give Dennison a total pass by any means, but I think a few fans are wishfully thinking he is a bigger part of the problem than he is (and it has been proven by the misconception two weeks in a row from fans about how much we have run) because it makes it a quicker fix.  Fire Dennison and suddenly the Quarterback and the line are reborn.  I happen to think the truth is that there are much more fundamental issues on this offense.  I'd love it to just be Dennison, but as I said earlier I put him at worst 4th on the list of reasons.  

 

I don't think he is and those 3rd and 15 screen are not the called plays.  Has he run a couple of conservative draws to Tolbert on 3rd down? Yep and I hate those plays they are waving the white flag.  But the reason it is Tolbert out there is because McD and Beane want him out there.  There is no question about that in my mind.... not "hey it's 1st and 10 put Mike in" but Shady signalling "I need a blow" after a screen on 1st down and then a 15 yard run for a 3 yard gain on 2nd down means they are down to their 2nd back and the reason they are down to Tolbert in that situation is because McD and Beane want him as the #2.  No question about that in my mind.  Most, but not all, of the plays I hate with Tolbert in there are when Shady has needed a blow or taken a nick and needs a play off.  

Sustained success in football is about coaching first and foremost.  Getting big plays that win games is talent on the field, but over time those things equal out for and against you if talent is equal.  This offense went from a strength to a struggling mess with effectively the same line except for RG, same QB, same TEs and same RB - the difference coaching and WRs.  Tyrod has his deficiencies for sure, but he has proven that he can be effective if put in the right situations.  The line has proven that they can block well if given the right blocking schemes.  The running back is on the downside of a HOF career but still very effective and dangerous. 

 

If you can't see Dennison as the biggest issue, then you are looking to rationalize the offensive woes of the team because of your dislike for a particular player or group of players.  The zone blocking schemes are garbage and the playcalling is cowardly.  It's Jauron Ball 2.0.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, Ayjent said:

 

If you can't see Dennison as the biggest issue, then you are looking to rationalize the offensive woes of the team because of your dislike for a particular player or group of players.  The zone blocking schemes are garbage and the playcalling is cowardly.  It's Jauron Ball 2.0.

 

And how much zone blocking do you think they have been running since the bye as a %? I'll give you a clue, it is remarkably similar to last season. 

 

Do I think the OLine is being badly coached? Yep. We have a terrible oline coach and he wad not hired by Dennison. Dennison has actually adapted his run scheme since the bye to focus much more on the things the Bills did well last season. The issue is not scheme. It is execution. 

[SoCal Deek]

Having watched Dennison's press conference on the Bills website, I am more convinced than ever that he NO CLUE what he is doing.  There have to be a thousand coaches who could put an offense together better than this guy.

[H2o]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I find Dennison resume before Buffalo quite underwhelming, surprised to see him get so much credit from you.  I find his performance here even more underwhelming to be honest.  

 

1.  We have mostly all the same pieces in place that allowed the Bills to be the #1 rushing team in the NFL both in yards and YPA the last 2 years with 2 different OC's.  He has somehow taken that and significantly reduced the strength of our offense.  

2.  He has been stubborn and predictable way too much and consistently calls us into 2nd and long, 3rd and long situations.  And for the love of all things holy, every third and long play feels like one of just 3 plays...a draw, a screen, or the same pass play that isn't working forcing a dump off over the middle to someone short.  

3.  There are times where he calling plays like Dick Juaron is in his head set advising him.

 

Just feels so vanilla, predictable, and stubborn far too often.  He has had moments that have been good, but he stays in these ruts far too long until its too late IMO.  

I'm not giving him an overly due amount, but look at the rankings with the QB's he has had. The last two years in Denver? Meh, but with an over the hill Peyton and Osweiller they did enough to get a ring. His early time in Denver was with Plummer and Cutler. His time in Houston was with Schaub followed by a host of rejects. Baltimore ranked in the top 10 while he was working with Flacco. Tyrod is not the guy. He can't run this offense when forced to actually play QB. The system has been successful and will be once we get the OL fixed, a better backup RB, and an actual QB to run it. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, H2o said:

I'm not giving him an overly due amount, but look at the rankings with the QB's he has had. The last two years in Denver? Meh, but with an over the hill Peyton and Osweiller they did enough to get a ring. His early time in Denver was with Plummer and Cutler. His time in Houston was with Schaub followed by a host of rejects. Baltimore ranked in the top 10 while he was working with Flacco. Tyrod is not the guy. He can't run this offense when forced to actually play QB. The system has been successful and will be once we get the OL fixed, a better backup RB, and an actual QB to run it. 

 

I guess I see it differently...For example, Peyton and Osweiller were the worst ranked passing attack in the NFL and Peyton had the worst performance in SB history by a winning QB.  They won those rings with a excellent D and run game.  Again, I never said he had a terrible resume, but I find it under whelming and most of his relevant success came a long time ago, and even that wasn't all world.  All good, I just don't look at him and see a resume thats so good that I can look past the poor showing on the field.  

 

I see a team thats dominated in the run game the last 2 years, with mostly the same pieces in place, that has dropped to marginal at best this year under his leadership.  I see a poor use of personnel, predictable play calling, poor adjustments...correction, a total lack of adjustments until there is almost no time left.  So for me, I get 10 games into a season is early to start really knowing how good or bad a coach can ultimately be, but Dennison has left me grossly underwhelmed and downright concerned about how he is running this offense far too often. 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[H2o]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I guess I see it differently...For example, Peyton and Osweiller were the worst ranked passing attack in the NFL and Peyton had the worst performance in SB history by a winning QB.  They won those rings with a excellent D and run game.  Again, I never said he had a terrible resume, but I find it under whelming and most of his relevant success came a long time ago, and even that wasn't all world.  All good, I just don't look at him and see a resume thats so good that I can look past the poor showing on the field.  

 

I see a team thats dominated in the run game the last 2 years, with mostly the same pieces in place, that has dropped to marginal at best this year under his leadership.  I see a poor use of personnel, predictable play calling, poor adjustments...correction, a total lack of adjustments until there is almost no time left.  So for me, I get 10 games into a season is early to start really knowing how good or bad a coach can ultimately be, but Dennison has left me grossly underwhelmed and downright concerned about how he is running this offense far too often. 

And I understand your points as well. I just think that it is a lack of execution more than Dennison and his play calling. I think Tyrod struggles reading defenses and goes to his check downs when he should be pushing the ball elsewhere. When Tyrod is forced to be a pocket QB he can't get it done. We need a QB who can read a defense and deliver the ball on time. Maybe it's Peterman? Maybe it's not? One thing is for certain, it isn't Tyrod. I do agree that Tolbert is seeing too many touches, but apparently they don't believe in any of the other backs for some reason.

[apuszczalowski]

24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I guess I see it differently...For example, Peyton and Osweiller were the worst ranked passing attack in the NFL and Peyton had the worst performance in SB history by a winning QB.  They won those rings with a excellent D and run game.  Again, I never said he had a terrible resume, but I find it under whelming and most of his relevant success came a long time ago, and even that wasn't all world.  All good, I just don't look at him and see a resume thats so good that I can look past the poor showing on the field.  

 

I see a team thats dominated in the run game the last 2 years, with mostly the same pieces in place, that has dropped to marginal at best this year under his leadership.  I see a poor use of personnel, predictable play calling, poor adjustments...correction, a total lack of adjustments until there is almost no time left.  So for me, I get 10 games into a season is early to start really knowing how good or bad a coach can ultimately be, but Dennison has left me grossly underwhelmed and downright concerned about how he is running this offense far too often. 

Its because they don't have the HOFer Decoy Sammy anymore to distract the entire defence and allow the other Bills players to just run free while everyone rushes over to cover him....

[Alphadawg7]

5 minutes ago, H2o said:

And I understand your points as well. I just think that it is a lack of execution more than Dennison and his play calling. I think Tyrod struggles reading defenses and goes to his check downs when he should be pushing the ball elsewhere. When Tyrod is forced to be a pocket QB he can't get it done. We need a QB who can read a defense and deliver the ball on time. Maybe it's Peterman? Maybe it's not? One thing is for certain, it isn't Tyrod. I do agree that Tolbert is seeing too many touches, but apparently they don't believe in any of the other backs for some reason.

 

Yeah, I agree with a lot of this too, and while I have seem times where I feel like TT has shown improvement in using and seeing more of the field, there is no question that he still really struggles with getting the ball out quick.  

 

I do like Peterman overall as a prospect, and while you cant put too much stock in mop up duty against reserves and soft Defenses, the one thing that was easy to take away was how he is more apt to make a 3 to 5 step drop and fire.  With the OL struggling, the best counter is getting the ball out quick, and clearly TT is either lacking in confidence in his receivers, his ability to make a quick fire decision, or in his reads because this is not, nor has been his strong suit.  

 

I still remain skeptical Peterman is ready to start a game, but I fully expect to him start week 12 if we lose the next 2 games.  I also think the TT leash is very short right now, and in what is easily a MUST win game in SD, I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull TT at halftime if he has another game like the Saints game.  

[ColoradoBills]

There is a lot of blame to go around for the "offensive" offense.

Dennison is one of the biggest.

 

After Sunday he has me thinking he should be named "Hackettson".

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, H2o said:

And I understand your points as well. I just think that it is a lack of execution more than Dennison and his play calling. I think Tyrod struggles reading defenses and goes to his check downs when he should be pushing the ball elsewhere. When Tyrod is forced to be a pocket QB he can't get it done. We need a QB who can read a defense and deliver the ball on time. Maybe it's Peterman? Maybe it's not? One thing is for certain, it isn't Tyrod. I do agree that Tolbert is seeing too many touches, but apparently they don't believe in any of the other backs for some reason.

 

All of this and, in addition, in the run game you only have to watch the tape back to know it is execution.  I challenge anyone to watch that tape and find me more than half a dozen occasions all game on Sunday where one of our o-line sustained a block.  They are getting there, getting their hands on the rusher and then being absolutely blown back.  If the blocks were being executed the hole would be there. Eric Wood hasn't blocked anyone since week 3.

[H2o]

11 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, I agree with a lot of this too, and while I have seem times where I feel like TT has shown improvement in using and seeing more of the field, there is no question that he still really struggles with getting the ball out quick.  

 

I do like Peterman overall as a prospect, and while you cant put too much stock in mop up duty against reserves and soft Defenses, the one thing that was easy to take away was how he is more apt to make a 3 to 5 step drop and fire.  With the OL struggling, the best counter is getting the ball out quick, and clearly TT is either lacking in confidence in his receivers, his ability to make a quick fire decision, or in his reads because this is not, nor has been his strong suit.  

 

I still remain skeptical Peterman is ready to start a game, but I fully expect to him start week 12 if we lose the next 2 games.  I also think the TT leash is very short right now, and in what is easily a MUST win game in SD, I wouldn't be surprised to see them pull TT at halftime if he has another game like the Saints game.  

I think it is his inability to read defenses that hinders him the most. He has always been a wait until his guy is open to throw the ball type of QB. He doesn't anticipate well. After 3 years of the same I can't believe it is the coaching anymore. I don't think he has it in him. He's a good guy, a hard worker, and makes some plays, but isn't anything more than a decent game manager. 

[CodeMonkey]

On 11/12/2017 at 7:39 PM, H2o said:

The offense has struggled, but I don't believe it's Dennison or the system's fault. His system has been successful in multiple places. He learned under Shanahan and Kubiak spending time with Denver, Houston, a stop in Baltimore as a QB coach, and then back to Denver before coming here. 

 

The OL on the right side was never fixed. They blow up that side of the line every time. Then, because of the right side, they key on the left putting an extra defender or two. The holes for McCoy are nonexistent. The rushing game is not clicking because they can't block anyone in front of them. Terrible OL play. 

 

We have all seen Tyrod. Most of us knew what he was while others pounded the table for him. He is not the guy. He still exhibits the same deficiencies that he has the last two years. He's a good guy, a hard worker, by all accounts a great teammate, and a decent game manager. He will never be a guy who carries a team with his arm. Peterman should at least be given the month of December to show what he's got. If he looks good then so be it. If not, we HAVE to identify our QB in the draft then make our move. 

 

The WR talent is now there with Matthews, Benjamin, Jones, Thompson, Holmes, and Clay (when healthy). We have guys who have and can be productive. This again falls on the QB and the OL. The OL has to give the QB time to throw and the QB has to be able to read a defense then deliver an on time ball to the right guy. 

 

Dennison's system is mainly short to intermediate timing routes with some deep passes mixed in off of play action. The emphasis is on an accurate QB who gets the ball out on time. A lot of times that QB is having to throw the ball to an opening where his guy will be, not waiting until your guy is open to throw it. None of these are strengths for Taylor. If the holes get filled the system will work. 

 

We all got our hopes up when we won a few. Now everyone is looking for a place to lay the blame. Blame who you want, but I don't see this as Dennison's failure. He does what he can to try to cover up Tyrod's weaknesses, but with 3 years of tape it's damn near impossible. 

Any good coach, at any level, knows enough to adjust his system to take advantage of the strengths of his players.  To not do so even the slightest amount, as Dennison has done thus far, shows his ego is more important to him than how the team does. Dennison has put TT in a position where he is very unlikely to succeed,  as a pocket passer.  If he is not willing to adjust his system to the strengths of TT, then he should put Peterman in.  At least he has a shot of being a pocket passer.

 

 

[Shaw66]

On 11/12/2017 at 7:39 PM, H2o said:

The offense has struggled, but I don't believe it's Dennison or the system's fault. His system has been successful in multiple places. He learned under Shanahan and Kubiak spending time with Denver, Houston, a stop in Baltimore as a QB coach, and then back to Denver before coming here. 

 

The OL on the right side was never fixed. They blow up that side of the line every time. Then, because of the right side, they key on the left putting an extra defender or two. The holes for McCoy are nonexistent. The rushing game is not clicking because they can't block anyone in front of them. Terrible OL play. 

 

We have all seen Tyrod. Most of us knew what he was while others pounded the table for him. He is not the guy. He still exhibits the same deficiencies that he has the last two years. He's a good guy, a hard worker, by all accounts a great teammate, and a decent game manager. He will never be a guy who carries a team with his arm. Peterman should at least be given the month of December to show what he's got. If he looks good then so be it. If not, we HAVE to identify our QB in the draft then make our move. 

 

The WR talent is now there with Matthews, Benjamin, Jones, Thompson, Holmes, and Clay (when healthy). We have guys who have and can be productive. This again falls on the QB and the OL. The OL has to give the QB time to throw and the QB has to be able to read a defense then deliver an on time ball to the right guy. 

 

Dennison's system is mainly short to intermediate timing routes with some deep passes mixed in off of play action. The emphasis is on an accurate QB who gets the ball out on time. A lot of times that QB is having to throw the ball to an opening where his guy will be, not waiting until your guy is open to throw it. None of these are strengths for Taylor. If the holes get filled the system will work. 

 

We all got our hopes up when we won a few. Now everyone is looking for a place to lay the blame. Blame who you want, but I don't see this as Dennison's failure. He does what he can to try to cover up Tyrod's weaknesses, but with 3 years of tape it's damn near impossible. 

I'm sure someone else must have said this, but here goes:  

 

The players are the same as last season. The offense was good last season. The only thing that changed was coaches and the system.   Explain again why the problem is the players not the coaches and the system. 

 

When the system changes the players need to change and that may be what's good about the Peterman move.  But the system didn't have to change. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Getting in here late but oh well....

 

I blame Dennison and Castillo. Our line wasnt this bad last year and it's mostly the same guys. We were scoring points all over the place too.

 

I called the blowout after the very first play of the game on Sunday. We come out and throw a pass 7 yards in the backfield to start the game? Why give yourself effectively a 1st and 17? MOVE FORWARD. Shady had to run 7 yards just to get even. All that work for no gain. Setting our players up to fail instead of putting them in a position to succeed. Not good coaching. Come out, move the ball forward, set the tone, and then get tricky later on when you have them on their heels.

 

Im all for continuity, but Dennison and Castillo have to go this offseason.

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm sure someone else must have said this, but here goes:  

 

The players are the same as last season. The offense was good last season. The only thing that changed was coaches and the system.   Explain again why the problem is the players not the coaches and the system. 

 

When the system changes the players need to change and that may be what's good about the Peterman move.  But the system didn't have to change. 

 

It doesn’t matter what system it is if defenses keep Taylor in the pocket.

[ALF]

The Dennison , pocket-timing-quick release passes is better suited for Peterman . The problem with that, the QB and receivers have to be in sync with a lot of practice.

 

The problem he will still have is the new OL scheme  that does not fit the players. Last season Taylor could average 24 pts a game and have a top running game.

 

Castillo is the OL  coach and run game coordinator, major problem.   jmo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CookieG]

23 hours ago, TheElectricCompany said:

The Chiefs simply line up better players than most defenses can defend. 

 

There are very, very few linebackers or safeties that can match up with Kelce. He's too big, strong and agile to shut down. There are even fewer corners and safeties who can keep up with Tyreek Hill. He can truly take the top off a defense and throw it in the trash.  Kareem Hunt is still a young pup, but he's looking like a player than can take it the distance every play, both running and catching the ball. Of course, the OL is playing well and their QB is slicing and dicing defenses this year. 

 

Schemes are important, but finding elite players than transcend scheme are much more important. There's only one offensive weapon (Lesean) who fits that mold right now, and it's reasonable to think that that his decline may be imminent. 

Before the NE game in week 1, people were questioning whether the Chiefs had the weapons to stay with the Pats. They are by no means stacked in talent at the skill positions.

 

They have an explosive WR and pretty good/very good TE.  Kareem Hunt is a 3rd round pick that ran a 4.6 + 40 at the combine. That doesn't make him a bad back, because he has some lateral movement and tackle breaking ability, but not a guy you'd expect to lead the league in 20+ yard runs. 

 

Andy Reid is showing again, that he knows how to call a game.  When Tyreek Hill ends up in single coverage, its by design. Reid creates situations to force a D into that situation, much like the plays to get Kelce on a LB are by design.

 

Several of Hunt's long runs were situations where the D was going one way or was frozen, and he had a huge hole to run through.  Some of the runs reminded me of the 2015-16 Bills, when Karlos Williams and Gillisee were getting huge holes with no one around them in the defensive backfield.  Ah..for the good old days.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm sure someone else must have said this, but here goes:  

 

The players are the same as last season. The offense was good last season. The only thing that changed was coaches and the system.   Explain again why the problem is the players not the coaches and the system. 

 

When the system changes the players need to change and that may be what's good about the Peterman move.  But the system didn't have to change. 

Against the Saints, McCoy's big run on the first drive came on an option/fake bootleg..a few plays later it was a designed run/pass option up the middle for TT. 

 

On the next series, they tried a reverse that failed due to a missed assignment/block.

 

After that...the options, bootlegs, rollouts, misdirection and sweeps disappeared.

 

The stretch play left returned for an ugly appearance. If there is any reason besides TT to stack the box, it is that play. 

 

After the bye, they started using more of the 2015-16 plays against Tampa and the Raiders...and it showed.  And I had a smile on my face.

 

But except for a brief appearance, it disappeared. 

 

 

[TheElectricCompany]

1 hour ago, CookieG said:

Before the NE game in week 1, people were questioning whether the Chiefs had the weapons to stay with the Pats. They are by no means stacked in talent at the skill positions.

 

They have an explosive WR and pretty good/very good TE.  Kareem Hunt is a 3rd round pick that ran a 4.6 + 40 at the combine. That doesn't make him a bad back, because he has some lateral movement and tackle breaking ability, but not a guy you'd expect to lead the league in 20+ yard runs. 

 

Andy Reid is showing again, that he knows how to call a game.  When Tyreek Hill ends up in single coverage, its by design. Reid creates situations to force a D into that situation, much like the plays to get Kelce on a LB are by design.

 

Several of Hunt's long runs were situations where the D was going one way or was frozen, and he had a huge hole to run through.  Some of the runs reminded me of the 2015-16 Bills, when Karlos Williams and Gillisee were getting huge holes with no one around them in the defensive backfield.  Ah..for the good old days.

All good points.

Reid is a quality play caller, but let's be real. Kelce and Tyreek are flat out better then most defenders can cover one on one. 

Scheme is important, but you can't defend against someone who is consistently stronger or faster than the man lined up across from them. 

Sure, you can move a player like Hill around, but does it matter? There isn't a CB in the league that could run with him. 

I think the movements you see with him are because he's raw as a receiver, as he gains experience, he'll play more of the traditional X & Z role. 

I think you are underselling Hunt, he's a true 3 down back with game breaking ability. 

[Spiderweb]

On 11/12/2017 at 7:42 PM, BuffaloBill said:

I have to wonder if Incognito has hit an age wall.

Noticed the same thing. He has been pushed around quite a bit this year. His best plays were when he pulled to the right the past couple years. Scheme doesnt seem to utilize this much anymore. In a nut shell, Dennison is yet another idiot who is a slave to a system rather than seeking to utilize his players strengths. We had enough of this with Rex.... When will the idiocracy end? 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Spiderweb

[H2o]

Now that Peterman has been named the starter I think we will be able to evaluate things better. Over the next few weeks I bet you see a big change in the offense. Hopefully Sunday's preview was legit for what is to come.