Blame Dennison if You Want, But it's Not the System

[Roundybout]

It's not even so much the play calls are plain stupid (they are), they are genuinely confusing and mind-boggling. A third and 15 screen to Tolbert?? Huge bomb on 3rd and 2? What?? I think I was calling better plays on Madden 2000 in 1st grade. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by BillsEnthusiast

[Chicken Boo]

12 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

My bad, Cameron Jordan, not Cameron Brate. The latter was on my fantasy team. 

 

 

 

Ouch!  

 

How long will it take McDermott to realize what everyone else already knows?  This situation will tell us a lot...

[LEBills]

12 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

My bad, Cameron Jordan, not Cameron Brate. The latter was on my fantasy team. 

 

 

Should have drafted him 3rd overall in 2011 over Dareus as well...

[Woodman19]

I don't think McDermott or Dennison think Tyrod is any good, he's simply out there to buy time for more players to be brought in while keeping some stability at the position in the short term.  It's very telling that when games are getting out of hand they keep trying to run the ball since they know Tyrod can't do the 40-50 attempts like some QB's do.  With how bad the QB position is league wide you will probably still get draft picks for Tyrod if you wanted to get rid of him in the offseason.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I'm not going to defend tyrod - 3 batted balls, gunshy, happy feet.  Was a total disaster. 

 

But at the same time... we were in 3rd and long all game long because of his stubborn refusal to run read-option and pass more out of the shotgun.  

[Buffalo03]

13 hours ago, H2o said:

The offense has struggled, but I don't believe it's Dennison or the system's fault. His system has been successful in multiple places. He learned under Shanahan and Kubiak spending time with Denver, Houston, a stop in Baltimore as a QB coach, and then back to Denver before coming here. 

 

The OL on the right side was never fixed. They blow up that side of the line every time. Then, because of the right side, they key on the left putting an extra defender or two. The holes for McCoy are nonexistent. The rushing game is not clicking because they can't block anyone in front of them. Terrible OL play. 

 

We have all seen Tyrod. Most of us knew what he was while others pounded the table for him. He is not the guy. He still exhibits the same deficiencies that he has the last two years. He's a good guy, a hard worker, by all accounts a great teammate, and a decent game manager. He will never be a guy who carries a team with his arm. Peterman should at least be given the month of December to show what he's got. If he looks good then so be it. If not, we HAVE to identify our QB in the draft then make our move. 

 

The WR talent is now there with Matthews, Benjamin, Jones, Thompson, Holmes, and Clay (when healthy). We have guys who have and can be productive. This again falls on the QB and the OL. The OL has to give the QB time to throw and the QB has to be able to read a defense then deliver an on time ball to the right guy. 

 

Dennison's system is mainly short to intermediate timing routes with some deep passes mixed in off of play action. The emphasis is on an accurate QB who gets the ball out on time. A lot of times that QB is having to throw the ball to an opening where his guy will be, not waiting until your guy is open to throw it. None of these are strengths for Taylor. If the holes get filled the system will work. 

 

We all got our hopes up when we won a few. Now everyone is looking for a place to lay the blame. Blame who you want, but I don't see this as Dennison's failure. He does what he can to try to cover up Tyrod's weaknesses, but with 3 years of tape it's damn near impossible. 

I believe it is partly the system. I will admit Tyrod was awful yesterday but you can't tell me that it makes sense for Dennison to be calling 2nd and 15 run plays especially to Mike Tolbert. It also seems that we run on 1st and 2nd down all the time. The offense is extremely predictable. In some ways it is the system

Edited November 13, 2017 by Buffalo03

[5 Wide]

All I know is who is calling playaction down 30+ points... Tyrod literally under center doing playaction..... down 30+ in the 4th quarter

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I believe it is partly the system. I will admit Tyrod was awful yesterday but you can't tell me that it makes sense for Dennison to be calling 2nd and 15 run plays especially to Mike Tolbert. It also seems that we run on 1st and 2nd down all the time. The offense is extremely predictable. In some ways it is the system

 

Not this again..... people need to watch the actual plays and not just perceive they know what is being called.  Over 70% pass last week, 65% this week.  We do NOT run all the time on 1st and 2nd down.  

[Elite Poster]

It absolutely 100% is the system. What the heck are you saying?

 

We have installed a scheme that does not fit our players. People here seriously need to watch other football teams play. You guys watch the Bills then tune into SNF where its Brady, Manning, Stafford, Brees, and Carr every week. 

 

Watch the Seahawks, Titans, or Texans (before Watson gets hurt), those offenses are built around getting their QB on the move. The opposing defenses for two weeks straight have said they are making Tyrod be a QB - NO, that is not it, WE are making him sit in the pocket. We burned the 3-step drop, ran RPO/roll-outs from shotgun then had some success, and for some god forsaken reason, we have brought it back.

 

As soon as we finished our 10-15 scripted plays (where we actually looked good yesterday), we once again went to looking like a hot steaming pile of ****. This is on Rico and his inability to adjust, and it started on his shoulders when we changed our running scheme. 

 

You are blaming Tyrod for not being a certain type of player, but he isn't that person in the first place. Its like if the Golden State Warriors asked Steph to attack the rim on every possession. That is not what he does, he will look like trash if you ask him to do it. This is why I have been saying and asking everyone, what do you honestly see here that is different from Rex. It is the same exact thing. We are trying to fit square pegs into a round hole.

 

Meanwhile, the Pats defense which was multiple/complex has been simplified, and guess who is playing lights out? Stephon Gilmore and the Patriots defense...We talk about Belichick like he has a huge ego, but when it comes to his schemes, he will set them on fire, take a massive dump on them, flush them down the toilet, find them in the sewage, and bomb them - if it means he can get better production out of his guys.

 

EDIT: And for the love of god, the personnel favoritism by this staff makes me want to put my head through a wall. Tolbert should not be playing as much as he is still. Has he made an impact since week 1? Seriously?!? Suckasse - don't even get me started. Its embarrassing watching our O-line get dominated and one of our most improved players from last year isn't even active. Why not? Because he is not a scheme fit. When you build a scheme and try to fit your players to it (REX ALL OVER AGAIN, Jeff Fisher, Chipper Kelly), you will fail. When you build a scheme for your players, you will succeed (Chiefs, Rams, Pats).

Edited November 13, 2017 by Elite Poster

[Buffalo03]

15 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not this again..... people need to watch the actual plays and not just perceive they know what is being called.  Over 70% pass last week, 65% this week.  We do NOT run all the time on 1st and 2nd down.  

I'm sorry we run A LOT on 1st and second down. You also have to think, how many times of the throws that are called on 1st and 2nd do you see a screen to Shady right down the line of scrimmage. That's basically the same thing as a run play. Why do you think we have so many 2nd and 12's, 2nd and 14's and all those long second and longs constantly? It's because we usually either run on first down and get stuffed for either no gain or a loss or we throw a straight line screen to Shady out of the backfield. Then on those second and longs, how many times have we seen them call a run play to Tolbert, only to get stuffed and end in 3rd and 13. I can recall quite a few times this season where we ran it with Tolbert right up the middle on 1st and 2nd down and basically waste two plays. Every week I can sit at home and know exactly what plays we are going to run on 1st and 2nd down from my couch and majority of the time I am right. If I know that, you better believe the opposing defense does to. The offense is predictable plain and simple

Edited November 13, 2017 by Buffalo03

[Dablitzkrieg]

I have to disagree.  The system is old-school.  We need a more forward-thinking system with more RPO's.  That would suit Taylor's skill set much better.

[Elite Poster]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm sorry we run A LOT on 1st and second down. You also have to think, how many times of the throws that are called on 1st and 2nd do you see a screen to Shady right down the line of scrimmage. That's basically the same thing as a run play. Why do you think we have so many 2nd and 12's, 2nd and 14's and all those long second and longs constantly? It's because we usually either run on first down and get stuffed for either no gain or a loss or we throw a straight line screen to Shady out of the backfield. Then on those second and longs, how many times have we seen them call a run play to Tolbert, only to get stuffed and end in 3rd and 13. I can recall quite a few times this season where we ran it with Tolbert right up the middle on 1st and 2nd down and basically waste two plays. Every week I can sit at home and know exactly what plays we are going to run on 1st and 2nd down from my couch and majority of the time I am right. If I know that, you better believe the opposing defense does to. The offense is predictable plain and simple

 

If Tyrod is under center and we have one WR wide, it is going to be a tolbert HB dive 100% of the time. As a viewer at home, I should not be able to diagnose an NFL offense. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm sorry we run A LOT on 1st and second down. You also have to think, how many times of the throws that are called on 1st and 2nd do you see a screen to Shady right down the line of scrimmage. That's basically the same thing as a run play. Why do you think we have so many 2nd and 12's, 2nd and 14's and all those long second and longs constantly? It's because we usually either run on first down and get stuffed for either no gain or a loss or we throw a straight line screen to Shady out of the backfield. Then on those second and longs, how many times have we seen them call a run play to Tolbert, only to get stuffed and end in 3rd and 13. Every week I can sit at home and know exactly what plays we are going to run on 1st and 2nd down from my couch and majority I am right. If I know that, you better believe the opposing defense does to. The offense is predictable plain and simple

 

Well the facts are that the last two weeks we have not run a lot on any down.  Your perception sitting on your couch might tell you we do.... the reality is the past two weeks we have been heavily pass oriented - a bad idea with a QB who the game plan has always focussed on hiding.  As for the throws to Shady at or near the line..... there are some called screens.  The first play from scrimmage yesterday was a called screen that was almost batted down and then there was a called screen conversion to Clay on 3rd and short.  And in fact last week one of the knocks was "why doesn't Dennison call more screens?" Because the majority of the other plays where Shady is catching it at or around the original line are not screens and they are NOT the play called.  They are checkdowns.  Checkdowns by a QB who despite holding the ball longer than almost any starter in the league can't see people open down the field or when he does isn't able to get the ball out fast enough to take advantage.  

 

I know the Saints were in prevent (as they were for Taylor's last 3 drives) but why do you suppose the throws close to the line disappeared when Peterman came in?  Because he ran the plays called and threw the ball on time.  This is a timing offense, always has been through Shanahan to Kubiak to Dennison.  It schemes people open if the ball is out when it should be.  The checkdown might be all that left if you miss those windows and don't throw the damn ball when you should.  

 

The Dennison hate is a distraction.  The offense is being sunk by terrible line play - hence the high percentage of runs that don't work.  Shady had one of the highest yards before first contact numbers last year and has one of the lowest this year.  The way you compensate for poor line play is you go to a more pass oriented offense that focuses on getting the ball out of the QBs hands.  That isn't an option for the Bills...... because Tyrod cannot run that type of offense.  

[Buffalo03]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well the facts are that the last two weeks we have not run a lot on any down.  Your perception sitting on your couch might tell you we do.... the reality is the past two weeks we have been heavily pass oriented - a bad idea with a QB who the game plan has always focussed on hiding.  As for the throws to Shady at or near the line..... there are some called screens.  The first play from scrimmage yesterday was a called screen that was almost batted down and then there was a called screen conversion to Clay on 3rd and short.  And in fact last week one of the knocks was "why doesn't Dennison call more screens?" Because the majority of the other plays where Shady is catching it at or around the original line are not screens and they are NOT the play called.  They are checkdowns.  Checkdowns by a QB who despite holding the ball longer than almost any starter in the league can't see people open down the field or when he does isn't able to get the ball out fast enough to take advantage.  

 

I know the Saints were in prevent (as they were for Taylor's last 3 drives) but why do you suppose the throws close to the line disappeared when Peterman came in?  Because he ran the plays called and threw the ball on time.  This is a timing offense, always has been through Shanahan to Kubiak to Dennison.  It schemes people open if the ball is out when it should be.  The checkdown might be all that left if you miss those windows and don't throw the damn ball when you should.  

 

The Dennison hate is a distraction.  The offense is being sunk by terrible line play - hence the high percentage of runs that don't work.  Shady had one of the highest yards before first contact numbers last year and has one of the lowest this year.  The way you compensate for poor line play is you go to a more pass oriented offense that focuses on getting the ball out of the QBs hands.  That isn't an option for the Bills...... because Tyrod cannot run that type of offense.  

Also another thing to think about is, how many times have we still been running the ball when we're down by a bunch of points? Yesterday we were still running the ball when we were down 24-3 pinned back on our own 10 yard line. To say that it's not the system and not blame Dennison is ridiculous. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Buffalo03

[Elite Poster]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well the facts are that the last two weeks we have not run a lot on any down.  Your perception sitting on your couch might tell you we do.... the reality is the past two weeks we have been heavily pass oriented - a bad idea with a QB who the game plan has always focussed on hiding.  As for the throws to Shady at or near the line..... there are some called screens.  The first play from scrimmage yesterday was a called screen that was almost batted down and then there was a called screen conversion to Clay on 3rd and short.  And in fact last week one of the knocks was "why doesn't Dennison call more screens?" Because the majority of the other plays where Shady is catching it at or around the original line are not screens and they are NOT the play called.  They are checkdowns.  Checkdowns by a QB who despite holding the ball longer than almost any starter in the league can't see people open down the field or when he does isn't able to get the ball out fast enough to take advantage.  

 

I know the Saints were in prevent (as they were for Taylor's last 3 drives) but why do you suppose the throws close to the line disappeared when Peterman came in?  Because he ran the plays called and threw the ball on time.  This is a timing offense, always has been through Shanahan to Kubiak to Dennison.  It schemes people open if the ball is out when it should be.  The checkdown might be all that left if you miss those windows and don't throw the damn ball when you should.  

 

The Dennison hate is a distraction.  The offense is being sunk by terrible line play - hence the high percentage of runs that don't work.  Shady had one of the highest yards before first contact numbers last year and has one of the lowest this year.  The way you compensate for poor line play is you go to a more pass oriented offense that focuses on getting the ball out of the QBs hands.  That isn't an option for the Bills...... because Tyrod cannot run that type of offense.  

 

Dennison hate BECAUSE he has built a system that does not fit our players. Are we this dense? Can we not wrap that around our heads? This isn't what good organizations do. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo03 said:

Also another thing to think about to think about is, how many times have we still been running the ball when we're down by a bunch of points? Yesterday we were still running the ball when we were down 24-3 pinned back on our own 10 yard line. To say that it's not the system and not blame Dennison is ridiculous. 

 

I am not saying Dennison is blameless. But he is at absolute worst our 4th biggest issue on offense.

 

1. Line

2. Lack of a proper #2 back

3. Quarterback

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

Also another thing to think about is, how many times have we still been running the ball when we're down by a bunch of points? Yesterday we were still running the ball when we were down 24-3 pinned back on our own 10 yard line. To say that it's not the system and not blame Dennison is ridiculous. 

 

We ran the ball because our passing game does nothing.  Running the ball actually picks up more chunks yards with us because we severely limited in the passing game.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Elite Poster said:

 

Dennison hate BECAUSE he has built a system that does not fit our players. Are we this dense? Can we not wrap that around our heads? This isn't what good organizations do. 

 

But that is not what he has built is what I am saying. As you would get if you read my posts. He has tried to get Tyrod out of the pocket as much as he can because he knows Tyrod can't run that offense. 

 

He is trying to run an offense that gets Tyrod out or on the move but the line is struggling and he isn't getting time to move, see the field and throw. What I am suggesting is the normal response to that is the quick pass, timing offense. But we can't run that because of Tyrod's limitations. 

 

With this line and this QB I don't know what you want him to call? A call sheet with a load of plays that don't require your line to sustain blocks or your Quarterback to get the ball out inside 2.5 seconds.... yea we all have one of those. 10 a penny those plays. 

[Livinginthepast]

Why are coordinators so bad at adjusting during games. The first drive things seemed to be working for TT but they either abandoned those ideas or the Saints made defensive adjustments. Either way Dennison should have been working out some alternate stuff with TT after the 3rd drive stalled.  Instead it was liking watching a fly try repeatedly to get out of a screen door, a lot of effort for nothing. We have a boring vanilla offense with a limited QB. We don't need Tom Brady here to try and mix it up. Throw in a reverse, some options. They didn't even try any jumpball 50/50s with Benjamin. Instead they did nothing and didn't change a thing. Absolutely stupid offensive coaching and decision making.

[Buffalo03]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am not saying Dennison is blameless. But he is at absolute worst our 4th biggest issue on offense.

 

1. Line

2. Lack of a proper #2 back

3. Quarterback

The line had one extremely bad game which was against the Jets last week. Every other game they have been pretty decent and I wouldn't even say they were an issue yesterday.

 

The lack of a number 2 RB I'll give you but he should not be giving him carries on on 2nd and long. Or when we are down by 21 points. That is just being clueless in my opinion

 

QB I'll also give you. Tyrod is bad and doesn't know how to audible

 

I would say Dennison is probably 2nd on the list of offensive problems. The horrendous play calling in situations where he shouldn't be calling them is mind boggling.